For Calvinists: Do you skip evangelizing because God chooses?

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For Calvinists: Do you skip evangelizing because God chooses?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 2 8.7%
  • No.

    Votes: 21 91.3%

  • Total voters
    23

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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Nope, you're in the driver's seat. Unless you exercised your 'free will' God was helpless to save you. That's what your theology avers, my Brother. No matter how many times He calls, until you do your part, He can not save you. It's the cross + your free will that = your salvation. That equation is foreign to the bible.
Unless God sent His son I am hopeless, so He have all credit, He invite me and all unworthy man like me, I am not a special man, yet He invite why I have to believe He only invite a few? To me it is boasting to believe only few invited and I am among the few
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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No, J 3:16 is a verse in the Bible.

I am asking how does God invites all practically, in a real world we live in. For example how did He invite all Chinese in 400 AD or American Indians before Columbus.

Or even your country, it certainly got Gospel, Bible etc quite late and not from the beginning. How were your people invited before that?
I do do not know, He never tell me, but to me j3:16 is open invitation
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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I do do not know, He never tell me, but to me j3:16 is open invitation
Your country has not been having (wow, is this the right English tense? lol) J 3:16 for quite a long time, so how were billions invited before they got the gospel from European missionaries?

If they were not, your argument that God invites all is quite wrong. And it should be corrected to "God invites many, but few of them are chosen".
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Your country has not been having (wow, is this the right English tense? lol) J 3:16 for quite a long time, so how were billions invited before they got the gospel from European missionaries?

If they were not, your argument that God invites all is quite wrong. And it should be corrected to "God invites many, but few of them are chosen".
you never know, I am never know either how God work. He love all that is for sure, that He love is all over in the Bible, how He invite my country people before missionary come, I do not know, my neighbors husband was big Muslim imam, if he preach in my town, ten of thousand come, After pondering about quran He doubt if it God doctrine, full of violence, than he remember his dream when he was in junior high. He was meet with Jesus in that dream, no body have courage evangelized to the big Imam, but finally he take a risk, left his religion and come to the Lord, he bring 89 imam to the Lord, and I read in Muslim web, one of the imam warn they fellow Muslim not to read his book, according to this imam, he estimate his book convert at least 3000 Muslim.

God love all and He know how to invite them, but not all accept His invitation, I hear a lot of testimonies from ex muslim, if they ask the real Lord to show himself, He will come either through dream or vision or what ever. My Muslim neighbors has 11 brother and sister, 3 of them accept the Lord, one of them tell me they know that one of the sister and one of the brother accept the Lord after it happen for few years, they keep it secret because Muslim do not like they family left Muslim.

i hear vision and dream is among the way God invite human to be save
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
you never know, I am never know either how God work. He love all that is for sure, that He love is all over in the Bible, how He invite my country people before missionary come, I do not know, my neighbors husband was big Muslim imam, if he preach in my town, ten of thousand come, After pondering about quran He doubt if it God doctrine, full of violence, than he remember his dream when he was in junior high. He was meet with Jesus in that dream, no body have courage evangelized to the big Imam, but finally he take a risk, left his religion and come to the Lord, he bring 89 imam to the Lord, and I read in Muslim web, one of the imam warn they fellow Muslim not to read his book, according to this imam, he estimate his book convert at least 3000 Muslim.

God love all and He know how to invite them, but not all accept His invitation, I hear a lot of testimonies from ex muslim, if they ask the real Lord to show himself, He will come either through dream or vision or what ever. My Muslim neighbors has 11 brother and sister, 3 of them accept the Lord, one of them tell me they know that one of the sister and one of the brother accept the Lord after it happen for few years, they keep it secret because Muslim do not like they family left Muslim.

i hear vision and dream is among the way God invite human to be save
Well, you do not know, its all just your theory.

So you cannot use this "God invites all" as an argument. It has not been proven. It would either had to be in the Bible or you would have to have proof from anybody who ever lived hat he was also invited.

History says that the Gospel spread in the time and so God invited various nations in various points in time. Not everybody everywhere everytime, which is your theory.
 
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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
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Well, you do not know, its all just your theory.

So you cannot use this "God invites all" as an argument. It has not been proven. It would either had to be in the Bible or you would have to have proof from anybody who ever lived hat he was also invited.

History says that the Gospel spread in the time and so God invited various nations in various points in time. Not everybody everywhere everytime, which is your theory.
Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Colossians 1
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
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Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Colossians 1
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

More eisegesis.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
The bible is defines itself. No private interpretation is needed. Allow what it says to stand.
Everytime you read the Bible, you also interpret it.

Because your brain tries to understand what is being read and gives you some images and comprehension of the grammar, syntax and vocabulary.

Its obvious that Paul has not brought the gospel to all nations in the meaning "in whole the planet". He just meant that he brings the gospel to all nations (he has around him) without any distinction like "to you yes, to you no".
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
Everytime you read the Bible, you also interpret it.

Because your brain tries to understand what is being read and gives you some images and comprehension of the grammar, syntax and vocabulary.

Its obvious that Paul has not brought the gospel to all nations in the meaning "in whole the planet". He just meant that he brings the gospel to all nations (he has around him) without any distinction like "to you yes, to you no".
Why is it obvious?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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Why is it obvious?
You are believing that the apostle Paul came to Brasilian jungles, to Iceland, Russia, Australia, China, New Zealand, South Africa, to American Indians etc etc?
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,271
1,429
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Has every single person who has ever lived from the time of Christ heard John 3:16?

I don't believe so. There are unreached people now who have never heard the gospel. Even so, God can appear to someone in a vision. Cornelius is a classic example of this. Does God appear to everyone this way who have not been reached. I don't think so. It seems to me that more often, God would appear to those of that people who have not hardened their hearts to God and therefore whose hearts are likely more open to the gospel. Paul is a classic example of God getting through to a person who by all outward appearances was hardened to the gospel. I wonder what was happening to him after the stoning of Stephen, yet Paul outwardly was intent still intent on persecuting Christians.

It is apparent from Scripture that a person can harden their heart. But who softens their heart? Who opens their eyes?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
You are believing that the apostle Paul came to Brasilian jungles, to Iceland, Russia, Australia, China, New Zealand, South Africa, to American Indians etc etc?
I am believing the Bible. It does not say that Paul preached everywhere, but he gospel in which he preached went out to all nations, in all the world, was preached to every creature under heaven. The Bible says it. I believe it.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
I am believing the Bible. It does not say that Paul preached everywhere, but he gospel in which he preached went out to all nations, in all the world, was preached to every creature under heaven. The Bible says it. I believe it.

I think the main problem is that you insert todays meanings of words into the ancient text where it meant something different (like "world", "all" etc).

You are interpreting the ancient text with your modern ideas.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
I think the main problem is that you insert todays meanings of words into the ancient text where it meant something different (like "world", "all" etc).

You are interpreting the ancient text with your modern ideas.
I allow the Bible to interpret itself. Are you saying, "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God", that the Bible really doesn't mean all people, but only a specific people? All does not mean all?

And my Bible is not ancient, but the living word of God. Amen.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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I am believing the Bible. It does not say that Paul preached everywhere, but he gospel in which he preached went out to all nations, in all the world, was preached to every creature under heaven. The Bible says it. I believe it.
To be preached to every living creature is everywhere. Everywhere we go there we are.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
I allow the Bible to interpret itself. Are you saying, "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God", that the Bible really doesn't mean all people, but only a specific people? All does not mean all?
This depends on the context, every time. Sometimes their "all" means our "all" and sometimes not.

Sometimes their "world" means our "world" (like regarding sin or enmity to God) and sometimes not (like the Roman Empire vs todays globalized planetary world)

And my Bible is not ancient, but the living word of God. Amen.
Jesus Christ is the living Word of God. Not book. But we would get into KJV only controversy again with this.
 
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