sin unto death?

[Nehemiah6]

A clear and detailed explanation! This was discussed in our church and yeah, its within the context that John was speaking to the gnostics unbelievers. So, sin unto death (physical) or the spiritual death of an unbeliever.

This is about as far-fetched as you can get. So let's take a look at whom John was addressing:

1. So Gnostic unbelievers are encouraged to have fellowship with John, with true Christians, and with God!
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

2. So Gnostic unbelievers are promised a fulness of joy!
And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

3. So Gnostic unbelievers are John's and God's little children!
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

4. So Gnostic unbelievers have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous!
And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

5. So now Gnostic unbelievers can also be considered as Christian brethren!
Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning.

6. So Gnostic unbelievers have known Christ who is from the beginning!
I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning.

7. So Gnostic unbelievers have overcome the Wicked One!
I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one.

8. So Gnostic unbelievers are God's little children who have known God experientially!
I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

Do you see how heretical a teaching this is telling Christians that the first epistle of John was written to Gnostic unbelievers? This false doctrine has been going around for a while, and should be utterly rejected. All three of John's epistles are addressed to genuine believers, and the first epistle addresses sin in the believer's life.

 

[AbigailZeke]

No, sorry. I have worded that wrong, 1 John was addressing the heresy of gnosticism that was plaguing the early church. I was meant to say, "John was referring to" rather than "John was speaking to" - I'm not a native English speaker

This is about as far-fetched as you can get. So let's take a look at whom John was addressing:

1. So Gnostic unbelievers are encouraged to have fellowship with John, with true Christians, and with God!
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

2. So Gnostic unbelievers are promised a fulness of joy!
And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

3. So Gnostic unbelievers are John's and God's little children!
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

4. So Gnostic unbelievers have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous!
And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

5. So now Gnostic unbelievers can also be considered as Christian brethren!
Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning.

6. So Gnostic unbelievers have known Christ who is from the beginning!
I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning.

7. So Gnostic unbelievers have overcome the Wicked One!
I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one.

8. So Gnostic unbelievers are God's little children who have known God experientially!
I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

Do you see how heretical a teaching this is telling Christians that the first epistle of John was written to Gnostic unbelievers? This false doctrine has been going around for a while, and should be utterly rejected. All three of John's epistles are addressed to genuine believers, and the first epistle addresses sin in the believer's life.

 

[OneFaith]

Well to be worldly is not only to be sinful, but also to be against God. So in order to overcome the world is to become a Christian, and have Christ’s blood wash away your sinful ways. But there is a sin that God will not wash away- the sin of being against God in your heart. Everyone who sins goes against God, but that’s not what He’s talking about.

Paul says “The good I want to do I don’t end up doing, and the bad I don’t want to do- that’s what I end up doing.” We can all identify with this. But notice his root/core want is to do good- to be like God- Holy and good. But what if you detest holiness and goodness (righteousness) in your heart?

How can you live with a Holy God when you don’t want to be Holy? This is mourning the Holy Spirit- which is a sin unto death- because it will not be covered by the blood of Christ. God will not forgive your not wanting to be good.

 

[lastofall]

[for me anyway] it is to say a sin "leading to" death, which by the way is unbelieving, which is the sin that shall not be forgiven: it may come in various forms, yet it is unbelieving.

 

[mailmandan]

This is the proper understanding of the sin unto death (premature physical death) and the passage you quoted is in line with this.

Some people jump to the conclusion that John is talking about believers committing certain sins that lead them to spiritual death, but that does not seem to fit the context.

1 John 5:16 (NKJV) - If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

1 John 5:16 (AMPC) - We know [absolutely] that anyone born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly] practice committing sin, but the One Who was begotten of God carefully watches over and protects him [Christ’s divine presence within him preserves him against the evil], and the wicked one does not lay hold (get a grip) on him or touch [him].

 

[Nehemiah6]

Some people jump to the conclusion that John is talking about believers committing certain sins that lead them to spiritual death, but that does not seem to fit the context.

1 John 5:16 (NKJV) - If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

1 John 5:16 (AMPC) - We know [absolutely] that anyone born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly] practice committing sin, but the One Who was begotten of God carefully watches over and protects him [Christ’s divine presence within him preserves him against the evil], and the wicked one does not lay hold (get a grip) on him or touch [him].

Your theory that this is not addressed to Christians is automatically refuted by this statement: If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death. "His brother" is a reference to a Christian brother, not a familial brother. So the entire passage is about Christian's sinning, and in fact John addresses this in the first two chapters.

Obviously this is not about spiritual death (or eternal damnation). This is about premature physical death, as in the case of Ananias and Sapphira.

As to habitually practicing sin, that also fits into this. This is not about someone habitually practicing sin, which would really mean that the person is not even saved. This is about a Christian who fails to address a particular sin and repent. Who fails to examine himself and confess his sins to God. There is a difference so check out 1 Cor 11:30, where many "sleep" refers to premature physical death. Thus it becomes *a sin unto premature physical death*

 

[Nehemiah6]

No, sorry. I have worded that wrong, 1 John was addressing the heresy of gnosticism that was plaguing the early church. I was meant to say, "John was referring to" rather than "John was speaking to" - I'm not a native English speaker

Even if you got that wording wrong, you still were taught false doctrine. John is addressing genuine believers in his epistles, and when someone comes along with a theory that he is addressing *the heresy of Gnosticism* in this particular teaching, that is pure nonsense. Christians are not sinlessly perfect, therefore there is a need for this matter to be addressed by God.

Yes, John does address the heresy of Gnosticism when he speaks about the antichrists who deny that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. That is a totally separate issue.

 

[IamWhoIam]

death unto sin

 

[garee]

what would you say a "sin not unto death" is?

and a "sin unto death"?




i dont want to influence the answers i get.... if anyone wishes to share their opinions....

understandings...

or what they think God has revealed to them regarding this verse

id like to hear it

My two cents...

A sin not unto death is a sin that has been atoned for by Christ... This is when we deny him in unbelief (sin, no faith ) as did Peter. .We know Christ cannot (impossible) deny he paid the full eternal wage of Peters sin.. Peter who was acting as one of the many antichrist’s , because his whole sin had been atoned for ...was not sent a strong delusion to believe the lie

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Mat 16:22

I think it was revealed so that we could have a proper understanding of why blasphemy, as Peter spoke against the lord of glory, was forgiven seeing he resisted the Son of man as that seen .

Christ refuses worship in respect to that seen. He would say when called good master.. only God not seen is good. Where if Christ was not here as that seen as the Son of man .Peter would of received the strong delusion to believe the lie. Forgiveness, It has to do with walking by faith as that not seen.

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

The reason we are not to pray is because the Holy Spirit that lives in us has already confirmed it. We offer the gospel in a hope the Holy Spirit will pray and and give them eternal life and not send the strong delusion. But he is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul pleases .Its why we cry out for mercy if we do deny Him in unbelief, no faith with a living hope like that of Peter. .

 

[mailmandan]

Your theory that this is not addressed to Christians is automatically refuted by this statement: If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death. "His brother" is a reference to a Christian brother, not a familial brother. So the entire passage is about Christian's sinning, and in fact John addresses this in the first two chapters.

Obviously this is not about spiritual death (or eternal damnation). This is about premature physical death, as in the case of Ananias and Sapphira.

As to habitually practicing sin, that also fits into this. This is not about someone habitually practicing sin, which would really mean that the person is not even saved. This is about a Christian who fails to address a particular sin and repent. Who fails to examine himself and confess his sins to God. There is a difference so check out 1 Cor 11:30, where many "sleep" refers to premature physical death. Thus it becomes a sin unto premature physical death*

I agree that the passage is addressing "believers" and the death is physical, not spiritual. I think you misunderstood me.

 

[Muzungu256]

I agree that the passage is addressing "believers" and the death is physical, not spiritual. I think you misunderstood me.

so if christians sin too much God will take em out????? in this world i mean.

 

[joefizz]

so if christians sin too much God will take em out????? in this world i mean.

like a ninja lol!(kidding)

 

[mailmandan]

so if christians sin too much God will take em out????? in this world i mean.

John said there is "a sin leading to death," so I would not necessarily label that, "sin too much and get taken out." Sounds more specific than numeric.

In 1 Corinthians 11:29, we read - For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. Paul knows that the judgment of God can take on the form of physical illness and even physical death. The word "sleep" when referring to death, refers to the death of believers, not spiritual death (John 11:11-12; Acts 7:60; 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; 2 Peter 3:4).

 

[joaniemarie]

Sin unto death is willful, unrepentant sin. Usually a hidden or "pet sin".

All sins we commit are willful. every one of them.

 

[joaniemarie]

Your theory that this is not addressed to Christians is automatically refuted by this statement: If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death. "His brother" is a reference to a Christian brother, not a familial brother. So the entire passage is about Christian's sinning, and in fact John addresses this in the first two chapters.

Obviously this is not about spiritual death (or eternal damnation). This is about premature physical death, as in the case of Ananias and Sapphira.

As to habitually practicing sin, that also fits into this. This is not about someone habitually practicing sin, which would really mean that the person is not even saved. This is about a Christian who fails to address a particular sin and repent. Who fails to examine himself and confess his sins to God. There is a difference so check out 1 Cor 11:30, where many "sleep" refers to premature physical death. Thus it becomes *a sin unto premature physical death*

Another way to see "brother" is that the Jews considered unbelieving Jews as still being their brothers. And we also have to remember to look at what being "Righteous" IN Christ means.

 

[dcontroversal]

Are you perfect in spirit, soul and flesh?

No one is or has been but Christ....and even he had to become sin for us......and the word perfect means complete...not perfect in the sense of our modern usage of the word!

 

[joaniemarie]

so if christians sin too much God will take em out????? in this world i mean.

Many Christians believe that. I used to believe God would kill me if I was to sin too much either "sins of ignorance" or "sins of omission" or "sins of commission" or "sins of obstruction" or "sins of obstetrics"

... but I do not believe that anny longer because of my understanding of what being righteous IN Christ means now.

That is why I believe without any doubt that Ananias was not a believer but one who infiltrated the church. Acts 5:1 Ananias was called "a certain man" not a brother. I used to however believe he and his wife were believers and if we don't watch our Ps and Qs we too will be zapped in the pews by God during communion should we not confess each and every sin we can remember. GADZOOKS WHAT A DISASTER THEOLOGY!!!!!

Jesus paid the full penalty for all the believers sins. If we die due to a sin in our life, it is due to the fact that sin in itself leads to physical death because sin always leads to death. Jesus leads to life.

But God is not zapping His children for sinning. This we can know for sure because it goes against the fact that Jesus already paid the penalty for our sins. God is not judging us according to our trespasses and sins any longer. Hebrews says We are not under the covenant of law but under grace. Read again Hebrews 8:10-13 that has been posted on other threads concerning our righteous standing in Christ.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will imprint My laws upon their minds, even upon their innermost thoughts and understanding, and engrave them upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]And it will nevermore be necessary for each one to teach his neighbor and his fellow citizen or each one his brother, saying, Know (perceive, have knowledge of, and get acquainted by experience with) the Lord, for all will know Me, from the smallest to the greatest of them.
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]For I will be merciful and gracious toward their sins and I will remember their deeds of unrighteousness no more.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]When God speaks of a new [covenant or agreement], He makes the first one obsolete (out of use). And what is obsolete (out of use and annulled because of age) is ripe for disappearance and to be dispensed with altogether.

This verse is major for us believers because it establishes again our righteous standing is based on a covenant where His Son Jesus MET alllll the requirements in the works department. Our only "work" is to believe. Our life is the life of faith in the finished work of Christ and not on our own finishing works here on earth to try and fulfill the law of sin and death. We are under a different covenant today.

Another reminder how important it is to STUDY and compare Scripture with Scripture and allow Scripture to interpret itself as the Holy Spirit teaches us how to understand the love of God IN Christ.

 

[joaniemarie]

No, sorry. I have worded that wrong, 1 John was addressing the heresy of gnosticism that was plaguing the early church. I was meant to say, "John was referring to" rather than "John was speaking to" - I'm not a native English speaker

You are correct AbigailZeke., John was addressing the heresy of Gnosticism that was plaguing the church. We can clearly see this when we understand what being "righteous IN Christ" means to the believer today. We stand IN Christ's righteousness given to us as a gift. We do not step in and out of our righteous standing. Don't allow anyone to tell you other wise.

Knowing who we are IN Christ is major in holding the ground Jesus already paid to give us. We do not fight for our righteous standing., we HAVE it forever as long as Christ is alive.... And we know Jesus lives after the power of an endless life.

 

[joaniemarie]

All of these truths need to be looked at and examined by the cross. When Jesus died on the cross everything changed. A new covenant came in and we are bound to see all things through the finished work of Jesus. This takes time to do when we read our Bibles and seek to "rightly divide the word of truth"

We are supposed to study and learn and take the truths we know as facts such as Jesus is THEEEEE only way. There is NO other way. When we are tempted to look at our own works of righteousness we must constantly go back to Jesus... Who is THE WAY....THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. No man comes to the Father but by HIM.

Not our following the commandments.... not our heart attitude. Only the Truth of Jesus being the WAY. And finding our righteousness only IN HIM. ALLELUIA!!!!!

This truth always leads to victory. We can know the truth in the Bible but we have to believe the truth in the Bible for our daily lives in order for it to set us free.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Another way to see "brother" is that the Jews considered unbelieving Jews as still being their brothers.

And taking things out of context is another way to promote heresy. Why would anyone bring this up to contradict what John is writing?

Let's face it. The teaching that the epistles of John have no bearing on sin in the believer's life is heresy, since it prevents Christians from understanding what provision God has made for them and what is their responsibility. And your favorite preacher Joseph Prince has been proclaiming this heresy over and over again. So that makes you culpable.