Not By Works
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Keep trying to 'not believe' if that's really what you want to do. If it really is what you want to do, and you keep tempting God this way, he will indeed not be there to catch you one of these times. God is patient and long suffering, but he is not 'always'-suffering.
Yes, faith is a gift. But that hardly means we don't have a responsibility to respond to the gift of faith (the ability to know something is true that we can't see for ourselves) with trust in God. The gift of faith--the gift of 'knowing'--was given to you and I so we can then believe/trust in what that gift of faith has shown us to be true.
Most people in human history simply reject what God shows them to be true. Some don't act on what God has shown them to be true through the power of faith and take a false comfort in simply knowing the gospel is true as if that 'alone' will save them. But a few then believe and trust in what God has shown them to be true. They are the ones who are saved.
Faith 'alone' (faith minus the response of believing as evidenced in obedience) can not save. Our responsibility is to believe/trust in what God shows us through faith to be true. And we rely on God's encouragement and power to do that believing, primarily through reading the Word through which faith comes. But we are being told here we don't have to do our believing because it happens automatically, if you've been designed and crafted by God to be a believer and not an unbeliever (Calvinism). And worse than that, we're being told that for you to decide to believe and not have it happen automatically is you actually trying to save yourself. The church has fallen to an all time new low.
Yes, faith is a gift. But that hardly means we don't have a responsibility to respond to the gift of faith (the ability to know something is true that we can't see for ourselves) with trust in God. The gift of faith--the gift of 'knowing'--was given to you and I so we can then believe/trust in what that gift of faith has shown us to be true.
Most people in human history simply reject what God shows them to be true. Some don't act on what God has shown them to be true through the power of faith and take a false comfort in simply knowing the gospel is true as if that 'alone' will save them. But a few then believe and trust in what God has shown them to be true. They are the ones who are saved.
Faith 'alone' (faith minus the response of believing as evidenced in obedience) can not save. Our responsibility is to believe/trust in what God shows us through faith to be true. And we rely on God's encouragement and power to do that believing, primarily through reading the Word through which faith comes. But we are being told here we don't have to do our believing because it happens automatically, if you've been designed and crafted by God to be a believer and not an unbeliever (Calvinism). And worse than that, we're being told that for you to decide to believe and not have it happen automatically is you actually trying to save yourself. The church has fallen to an all time new low.
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No, but I've got loads of Lasagna in the fridge. Oh wait, I 'sealed' those containers. So if you're OSAS you know that 'sealed' means by definition 'not able to be unsealed'. Oh well.....I'll put some popcorn on. But if you hang around long enough I have the feeling some flap jacks will be coming along soon, lol.
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No, thanks to you, for reminding us what mindless robots we believers are. What a glorious God who simply manufactures worshipers for himself instead of winning them to himself through his matchless love.
Oh, and by the way. The ex-believer doesn't break the seal. He causes God to break the seal because he has chosen to no longer be protected by the power of God until the Day of Salvation through faith (1 Peter 1:5). He abandoned the faith through which the protection of the power of God for the Day of Salvation comes.
Oh, and by the way. The ex-believer doesn't break the seal. He causes God to break the seal because he has chosen to no longer be protected by the power of God until the Day of Salvation through faith (1 Peter 1:5). He abandoned the faith through which the protection of the power of God for the Day of Salvation comes.
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Mindless robot? There you go again trying to make me out to be a calvanist. Sorry, But wrong again, I just take God at his word.
By the way, God said we are sealed UNTIL the day of redemption. When are you going to take God at his word? He never said he seals us until we stop doing something, he says until. WHy would God not tell us we could break the seal if that's was possible?
Three times in scripture we are told. We are sealed UNTIL the day of redemption. 3 times. I think something which is repeated that many times should be adheared to. Why would not you?
Again, John says it is these FACTS which are our power to continue in faith.. Your taking our hope. And reason to have faith, band destroying them. It is no wonder you think a person can lose faith. All we are told are the root of our faith you say are not real
By the way, God said we are sealed UNTIL the day of redemption. When are you going to take God at his word? He never said he seals us until we stop doing something, he says until. WHy would God not tell us we could break the seal if that's was possible?
Three times in scripture we are told. We are sealed UNTIL the day of redemption. 3 times. I think something which is repeated that many times should be adheared to. Why would not you?
Again, John says it is these FACTS which are our power to continue in faith.. Your taking our hope. And reason to have faith, band destroying them. It is no wonder you think a person can lose faith. All we are told are the root of our faith you say are not real
John 12:26, “26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”
1 Samuel 12:24, “Only fear יהוה, and you shall serve Him in truth with all your heart, for consider what marvels He has done for you.”
Psalms 2:11, “Serve יהוה with fear, And rejoice with trembling.”
Romans 12:1, "I call upon you, therefore, brothers, through the compassion of Yah, to present your bodies a living offering – set-apart, well-pleasing to Yah; your reasonable worship."
2 Timothy 2:20-22, "However, in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore, if a man purges himself of sin, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and fit for the Father's use, and prepared for every righteous work. Also flee evil desires; but follow after righteousness, faith, love, and peace with those who call on Yahweh out of a pure heart."
1 Samuel 12:24, “Only fear יהוה, and you shall serve Him in truth with all your heart, for consider what marvels He has done for you.”
Psalms 2:11, “Serve יהוה with fear, And rejoice with trembling.”
Romans 12:1, "I call upon you, therefore, brothers, through the compassion of Yah, to present your bodies a living offering – set-apart, well-pleasing to Yah; your reasonable worship."
2 Timothy 2:20-22, "However, in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore, if a man purges himself of sin, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and fit for the Father's use, and prepared for every righteous work. Also flee evil desires; but follow after righteousness, faith, love, and peace with those who call on Yahweh out of a pure heart."
Adding something to the finished work of Christ such as, "keep believing" is wrong a false gospel. The "Power of God", will keep his children "saved and sealed" until the day of redemption, not the power of, "keep believing", you did not save yourself neither can you "keep yourself saved" The believer's "Sanctification" is a life long pursuit of holiness and service to our Loving Father, it is not a works that will "keep you saved"
God's Grace plus your wonderful works to will not
keep you saved.
Faith to Faith it is all of God's work, not your's
God's Grace plus your wonderful works to will not
keep you saved.
Faith to Faith it is all of God's work, not your's
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 24:13, “But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 3:18-19, “And to whom did He swear that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? we see that they were unable to enter in because of unbelief."[/FONT]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 3:18-19, “And to whom did He swear that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? we see that they were unable to enter in because of unbelief."[/FONT]
Hebrews 3
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
P hart and Mr Peter Jens and Hizikyah and all others who do, thank GOD you come and exhort which is to encourage us here.
verse 12 is quite telling..
Forget the lasagne let us have bread and wine..
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
P hart and Mr Peter Jens and Hizikyah and all others who do, thank GOD you come and exhort which is to encourage us here.
verse 12 is quite telling..
Forget the lasagne let us have bread and wine..
Open to me the gates of righteousness; I enter through them
יהוה helped me. Yah is my strength and song, And He has become my deliverance
Psalms 30, “1 I exalt You, O יהוה, for You have drawn me up, And have not let my enemies rejoice over me. 2, יהוה my Strength, I have cried to You, And You have healed me. 3, יהוה, You brought me up from She’ol; You have kept me alive, from going down into the pit. 4, Sing praise to יהוה, You lovingly-committed ones of His, And give thanks at the remembrance of His Set-apartness. , For His displeasure is for a moment, His delight is for life; Weeping might last for the night, But joy comes in the morning. 6, As for me, I have said in my ease, “Never would I be shaken!” 7, יהוה, in Your good pleasure You have made my mountain to stand strong; You hid Your face, and I was troubled. 8, I cried out to You, O יהוה; And to יהוה I prayed: 9, “What gain is there in my blood, When I go down to the pit? Would dust praise You? Would it declare Your truth? 10, “Hear, O יהוה, and show me favor; יהוה, be my helper!” 11, You have turned my mourning into dancing for me; You have torn off my sackcloth and girded me with gladness, 12, So that esteem might praise You and not be silent. O יהוה my Strength, I thank You forever."
Psalm 118:1-29, Oh, give thanks to יהוה, for He is good! Because His kindness is everlasting. Let Yisra’yl now say, “His kindness is everlasting. Let the house of Aharon now say, “His kindness is everlasting.” Let those who fear יהוה now say, “His kindness is everlasting.” I called on Yah in distress; Yah answered me in a broad place. יהוה is on my side; I do not fear what man does to me! יהוה is for me among those helping me; Therefore I look on those hating me. It is better to take refuge in יהוה Than to trust in man. It is better to take refuge in יהוה Than to trust in princes. All the gentiles surrounded me, In the Name of יהוה I shall cut them off. They surrounded me, Yea, they surrounded me; In the Name of יהוה shall I cut them off. They surrounded me like bees; They were extinguished like burning thorns; In the Name of יהוה I shall cut them off. Pushing, the enemy pushed me to fall, But יהוה helped me. Yah is my strength and song, And He has become my deliverance. The voice of rejoicing and deliverance Is in the tents of the righteous; The right hand of יהוה is doing mightily. The right hand of יהוה is exalted, The right hand of יהוה acts mightily. Let me not die, but live, And declare the works of Yah. Yah has punished me severely, But did not give me over to death. Open to me the gates of righteousness; I enter through them, I thank Yah. This is the gate of יהוה, The righteous enter through it. I thank You, For You have answered me, And have become my deliverance. The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner-stone. This was from יהוה, It is marvelous in our eyes. This is the day יהוה has made, Let us rejoice and be glad in it. I pray, O יהוה, please save; I pray, O יהוה, please send prosperity. Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of יהוה ! We shall bless you from the House of יהוה. .יהוה is Strength, and He gave us light; Bind the festal offering With cords to the horns of the altar. You are my Strength, and I praise You; You are my Strength, I exalt You. Give thanks to יהוה, for He is good! For His kindness is everlasting.”
יהוה helped me. Yah is my strength and song, And He has become my deliverance
Psalms 30, “1 I exalt You, O יהוה, for You have drawn me up, And have not let my enemies rejoice over me. 2, יהוה my Strength, I have cried to You, And You have healed me. 3, יהוה, You brought me up from She’ol; You have kept me alive, from going down into the pit. 4, Sing praise to יהוה, You lovingly-committed ones of His, And give thanks at the remembrance of His Set-apartness. , For His displeasure is for a moment, His delight is for life; Weeping might last for the night, But joy comes in the morning. 6, As for me, I have said in my ease, “Never would I be shaken!” 7, יהוה, in Your good pleasure You have made my mountain to stand strong; You hid Your face, and I was troubled. 8, I cried out to You, O יהוה; And to יהוה I prayed: 9, “What gain is there in my blood, When I go down to the pit? Would dust praise You? Would it declare Your truth? 10, “Hear, O יהוה, and show me favor; יהוה, be my helper!” 11, You have turned my mourning into dancing for me; You have torn off my sackcloth and girded me with gladness, 12, So that esteem might praise You and not be silent. O יהוה my Strength, I thank You forever."
Psalm 118:1-29, Oh, give thanks to יהוה, for He is good! Because His kindness is everlasting. Let Yisra’yl now say, “His kindness is everlasting. Let the house of Aharon now say, “His kindness is everlasting.” Let those who fear יהוה now say, “His kindness is everlasting.” I called on Yah in distress; Yah answered me in a broad place. יהוה is on my side; I do not fear what man does to me! יהוה is for me among those helping me; Therefore I look on those hating me. It is better to take refuge in יהוה Than to trust in man. It is better to take refuge in יהוה Than to trust in princes. All the gentiles surrounded me, In the Name of יהוה I shall cut them off. They surrounded me, Yea, they surrounded me; In the Name of יהוה shall I cut them off. They surrounded me like bees; They were extinguished like burning thorns; In the Name of יהוה I shall cut them off. Pushing, the enemy pushed me to fall, But יהוה helped me. Yah is my strength and song, And He has become my deliverance. The voice of rejoicing and deliverance Is in the tents of the righteous; The right hand of יהוה is doing mightily. The right hand of יהוה is exalted, The right hand of יהוה acts mightily. Let me not die, but live, And declare the works of Yah. Yah has punished me severely, But did not give me over to death. Open to me the gates of righteousness; I enter through them, I thank Yah. This is the gate of יהוה, The righteous enter through it. I thank You, For You have answered me, And have become my deliverance. The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner-stone. This was from יהוה, It is marvelous in our eyes. This is the day יהוה has made, Let us rejoice and be glad in it. I pray, O יהוה, please save; I pray, O יהוה, please send prosperity. Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of יהוה ! We shall bless you from the House of יהוה. .יהוה is Strength, and He gave us light; Bind the festal offering With cords to the horns of the altar. You are my Strength, and I praise You; You are my Strength, I exalt You. Give thanks to יהוה, for He is good! For His kindness is everlasting.”
Christians obey God; they did not enter "God rest", because they were not saved to begin with, "unbelief"
Now "to Him '(God)' who is able"to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all time, and now, and for all eternity. Amen. Jude1:24,25
Christian's will "endure until the end" by the power of the Holy Spirit;
"So he said to me, "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD Almighty." Zachariah4:6
Lord Lord have I not done many things in your name, and Jesus say's depart from me I never new you. Stop working for your salvation and start serving a Living Holy God, You could never save yourself or endure to the end without the power of God in everything you do. It is your "Sanctification", (made holy and set apart), that we can do any good for God at all, and He does the sanctifying in our life also, not you.
You propose a gospel that is about "look what you have done"; not "look what God has done."
Now "to Him '(God)' who is able"to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all time, and now, and for all eternity. Amen. Jude1:24,25
Christian's will "endure until the end" by the power of the Holy Spirit;
"So he said to me, "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD Almighty." Zachariah4:6
Lord Lord have I not done many things in your name, and Jesus say's depart from me I never new you. Stop working for your salvation and start serving a Living Holy God, You could never save yourself or endure to the end without the power of God in everything you do. It is your "Sanctification", (made holy and set apart), that we can do any good for God at all, and He does the sanctifying in our life also, not you.
You propose a gospel that is about "look what you have done"; not "look what God has done."
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Here;
John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."
Also do I say I did it if I quote this;
Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah."
Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.”
John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."
Also do I say I did it if I quote this;
Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah."
Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.”
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IF you keep believing. IF you stay in Christ. The promises of God are conditioned on the believer continuing to believe to the very end. Which I think you agree with, it's just that you are sure the true believer can not return to unbelief, which you can believe if you want. It will only matter to you and you alone when you come into your hour of testing. You will not need me or anybody else around to tell you the truth about that at that time.
When are you????? The promises are conditioned on continued believing, not works, believing. And if it is so sure that all believers can never stop believing you have to explain why the Bible warns us to not stop believing and what will happen if we do.
He did tell us. But you and countless others have been brain washed to the point of blindness to the plain words of scripture that say it. Your doctrines are a collection of 'not really' doctrines that say the plain words of scripture 'don't really', mean what they say.
I agree that we should adhere to the several times the Bible says we are safe through our continued believing.
I do agree that we are sealed until the day of redemption. But, unlike you, I know and believe the whole counsel of scripture that says it's conditioned on you continuing to believe to the very end. Which I'm amazed that you fight against since you yourself are so sure we can't stop believing. You should be AGREEING with me, don't you realize that? When you say we can't stop believing you are agreeing that the true believer must believe to the very end. You obviously have not even realized this, lol.
So then you agree that continuing to believe is required. Because (you say) the true believer is the one who can't and won't stop believing. So stop arguing with me already, lol!
Ha, lol.....the hope you say you can't lose, because true believers always believe and can't stop believing. Yet you are accusing me of stealing your hope. Get the popcorn out, folks. This is good, lol.
When are you????? The promises are conditioned on continued believing, not works, believing. And if it is so sure that all believers can never stop believing you have to explain why the Bible warns us to not stop believing and what will happen if we do.
He did tell us. But you and countless others have been brain washed to the point of blindness to the plain words of scripture that say it. Your doctrines are a collection of 'not really' doctrines that say the plain words of scripture 'don't really', mean what they say.
I agree that we should adhere to the several times the Bible says we are safe through our continued believing.
I do agree that we are sealed until the day of redemption. But, unlike you, I know and believe the whole counsel of scripture that says it's conditioned on you continuing to believe to the very end. Which I'm amazed that you fight against since you yourself are so sure we can't stop believing. You should be AGREEING with me, don't you realize that? When you say we can't stop believing you are agreeing that the true believer must believe to the very end. You obviously have not even realized this, lol.
So then you agree that continuing to believe is required. Because (you say) the true believer is the one who can't and won't stop believing. So stop arguing with me already, lol!
Ha, lol.....the hope you say you can't lose, because true believers always believe and can't stop believing. Yet you are accusing me of stealing your hope. Get the popcorn out, folks. This is good, lol.
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It is sad. The church is at a very low point right now. Obedience can now only be understood as trying to save oneself. But out the other side of their mouth they will gallantly assert that the true believer will produce works. Which means it is necessary to produce works, or else you're not saved. But don't you dare tell them you have to produce works, lol. Wow, what a messy doctrine. It's a joke. I mean, I wish it was a joke, but these people are serious.