For Calvinists: Do you skip evangelizing because God chooses?

[He_reigns]

Hard to blame the Calvinist for lack of evangelism when there is so little evangelism even in historically evangelistic churches. Many pastors today lack faith in the power of Gods word to convert the hearts of men to Christ.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Gods hand is not slack concerning His promises He will accomplish that which He purposes.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I have never really understood why some like you think it is the Local church's responsibility to evangelize people. The local church should be identifying, maturing, equipping and then sending the evangelist. The Local church should be training people to go out into the fields, not sitting in their pew demanding the harvest fields come to them.

We do not go and make any more, we would rather tell the world come and see.

 

[1ofthem]

Hey sweetie, I know you are a strong woman and can handle yourself just fine, as I mentioned to you outside of CC, I kind of went into defense mode when I saw multible people giving you a hard time at once, I'm no different than anybody else who has a spouse or girlfriend or boyfriend when we see others giving someone we love a hard time it's like a knee jerk reaction, though I didn't want to start being nasty and mean to folks that is not right either two wrongs don't make a right.

So I resorted to what I've done before in times like that, to show love when my feelings are hurt and I wanted to divert that Harshness away from you and bring their attention unto me,,, I'm guilty of not being quick to think and slow to speak that is a work in progress seems like every day it's a challenge to say all the right things.

As you know all this already I wanted to share this so others may know why I chose the route of showing Love with songs etc. rather than being mean and ugly, that is not my nature to be mean and ugly, yes I can fall short of being the perfect gentlemen and saying everything perfectly correct all the time that alone is not easy to do at all.

have a good day, my sweetness.

Hey honey, you know that I love and appreciate you. You keep me balanced…Sometimes things gets heated on here and I think that is when we all, well especially myself, need to be reminded to treat others with love and kindness. You deal with it a lot better than I do.

I’ve come on here before and tried to defend others who I don’t even know…but unlike you, I have sometimes went about it the wrong way and just started attacking. What you did by showing love to others instead of insulting and attacking was a reminder, example, and light to me yesterday…It got me back in check real quick. Those songs and loving comments cooled me right down and reminded me that we all should treat others with love and respect whether we completely agree with each other or not.

I don’t think others understood what you were doing and may have thought you had ulterior motives…but I know you and knew exactly where you were coming from. You are a loving, caring, and forgiving person.

You really are a light to me.

So thanks and have a good day honey…ttys

 

[IamWhoIam]

Hey honey, you know that I love and appreciate you. You keep me balanced…Sometimes things gets heated on here and I think that is when we all, well especially myself, need to be reminded to treat others with love and kindness. You deal with it a lot better than I do.

I’ve come on here before and tried to defend others who I don’t even know…but unlike you, I have sometimes went about it the wrong way and just started attacking. What you did by showing love to others instead of insulting and attacking was a reminder, example, and light to me yesterday…It got me back in check real quick. Those songs and loving comments cooled me right down and reminded me that we all should treat others with love and respect whether we completely agree with each other or not.

I don’t think others understood what you were doing and may have thought you had ulterior motives…but I know you and knew exactly where you were coming from. You are a loving, caring, and forgiving person.

You really are a light to me.

So thanks and have a good day honey…ttys

Thank you my dear, though I have said as well things the wrong way and I have attacked others wrongly, I am diffently not going to sugar coat that. But I apologize to anyone that I have made them feel assaulted in anyway, that wasn't my intentions to do that, heated conversion can be hard to manage. And these words I say is not just cleshay, I apologize for my actions.

 

[1ofthem]

Well, I do think we do share more beliefs than we do not share. We both agree that we are saved by grace through faith, but we come at it from two different angles.



Well, God has never tried to do anything. He either does it or He does not. He does not try to save anyone; He either saves them or He does not. I will answer the universalist portion of this quote below.



Here's where you need to further study the word 'propitiation'. It means to appease, satisfy, satiate God's wrath. Now, first off, it was God who was propitiated and not us. He was the One who was offended by our rebellion. 'Propitiation' also means to atone, as the NIV uses 'atoning sacrifice' in lieu of 'propitiation'. Now, if everybody's sins have been atoned, then there's no more God's wrath, because His wrath has been appeased, satisfied, satiated.

'Appease' also mean to reconcile, and reconcile means to make two enemies friends. Look at 2 Corinthians 5:19 when Paul wrote that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. Now, if God was in Christ reconciling the world, then the whole world, all ppl of all time w/o exception have now been made God's friends. None of those who are God's friends will die lost. Also, there's a 500 lb gorilla in that verse that needs addressed. Those who are being reconciled God does not count their sins against them. In other words, if this means that Christ is not holding ppl's sins against them, then they are 1) God's friends, and 2) their sins are not held against them. If this is universal in scope(meaning everybody of all time), then its universalism.










[/FONT][/COLOR]

If you deny God predestines anybody, then what about Ephesians 1:4 where it says we were chosen in Christ from BEFORE(not after we did something) the creation of the world?

Once again thanks for the response...You have given me more things to ponder which is good.

I'm a work right now, so I don't have too much time to reply, but I would Like to reply to this last part, anyhow.

If you deny God predestines anybody, then what about Ephesians 1:4 where it says we were chosen in Christ from BEFORE(not after we did something) the creation of the world?

In my view, I think the answer to this is found in Revelations 13:8
[h=1]Revelation 13:8King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

I really don't think the Lamb was actually slain from the foundation of the world. I think this is talking about God knowing all...He knows the beginning from the end. So yes, he knows what the end's going to be and who will accept him or not, and in my opinion that is not saying that he just arbitrarily chose some people to write in the book of life. In my view, the Bible seems to consistently show from the beginning to the end that he allows men the choice to believe and obey him or not. So it ultimately comes down to our choice in the end. I think this is his plan and that is why scripture says... It is not his will that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. We know he is God and he could make that happen...but he doesn't force it...He gives us all a choice and that's why not all will be saved...because he allows us to choose to believe and obey him or not. [/FONT]

 

[notuptome]

I have never really understood why some like you think it is the Local church's responsibility to evangelize people. The local church should be identifying, maturing, equipping and then sending the evangelist. The Local church should be training people to go out into the fields, not sitting in their pew demanding the harvest fields come to them.

We do not go and make any more, we would rather tell the world come and see.

Really? Is Mat 28 in your bible?

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.

This is to every believer. Tell your neighbors, friends, co-workers, family members and every other soul you encounter. Tell them what Christ has done for you and tell them of their need to be saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Depleted]

Johnb 3:
19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Not everyone always chooses to do evil. It is not evil to decide to believe the gospel, which anyone can choose to do.


God does not determine whom He will save. He wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4).

Name one person, apart from Jesus, who didn't choose evil ever.

As for God not being sovereign? ("God does not determine whom He will save.") I will never serve such a god!

 

[Depleted]

Yeah, it's not really about Calvin. It's about salvation and how a person gets saved.

But Calvinism is a convenient word to use. Nearly everyone knows what it means in the context of how we're using it here: that God determines who He will save and who He will not.

Calvinism is not true.

And so your god is a liar. Pretty much why I'm not having it with you.

 

[Depleted]

By now, everyone is just into preaching their very-special-gospel without listening to anyone else, so I'm out of here.

But, feel free to continue to troll a post that was never for you to start with.

 

[1ofthem]

Thank you my dear, though I have said as well things the wrong way and I have attacked others wrongly, I am diffently not going to sugar coat that. But I apologize to anyone that I have made them feel assaulted in anyway, that wasn't my intentions to do that, heated conversion can be hard to manage. And these words I say is not just cleshay, I apologize for my actions.

Ok, you're my sugar, so maybe I poured the sugar on a little thick and sugar coated it too much...jk...lol

Seriously though, we all make mistakes and you are a light to me

 

[shrume]

Name one person, apart from Jesus, who didn't choose evil ever.

While all people choose to do evil at times, many people have chosen to believe the gospel and become saved.

As for God not being sovereign? ("[/SIZE]God does not determine whom He will save.") I will never serve such a god!

Maybe not in this life, but one day you will understand.

 

[shrume]

And so your god is a liar.

God does not lie.

Pretty much why I'm not having it with you.

???

 

[IamWhoIam]

Name one person, apart from Jesus, who didn't choose evil ever.

As for God not being sovereign? ("God does not determine whom He will save.") I will never serve such a god!

The prophetess Anna

theres a few more in scripture that God saw as blameless, righteous in their ways, John the baptist parents. I haven't read anything about John himself choosing evil either.

 

[Issachar92]

Name one person, apart from Jesus, who didn't choose evil ever.

As for God not being sovereign? ("God does not determine whom He will save.") I will never serve such a god!

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

[IamWhoIam]

By now, everyone is just into preaching their very-special-gospel without listening to anyone else, so I'm out of here.

But, feel free to continue to troll a post that was never for you to start with.

Gee Lynn really, I'm starting to believe it is not people who walk away from you, but it is you that walk away from them.

i don't have to wonder if there is angry and frustration in your heart towards the things that have happened to you in your life, like you said actions speak a lot. you did not even care about what I said above in my post 734# to you.

pennED came to your house and helped you out of his heart, can't you show others some kindness and love all so, and have some patience for others?

 

[IamWhoIam]

These verses I learned of just a little while ago, in my opinion does highlight some of evangelizing part of the elect.


Colossians 3:12-15

12Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. 13Bear with each other and forgive any complaint you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14And over all these virtues put on love, which is the bond of perfect unity. 15Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, for to this you were called as members of one body. And be thankful.

again I'll post these are the actions of (the elect), and they should mean something.

 

[preacher4truth]

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Still waiting for proof, all you've done is presume upon Scripture something not there. Did Jesus die for their sins?

 

[IamWhoIam]

Still waiting for proof, all you've done is presume upon Scripture something not there. Did Jesus die for their sins?

Explain to us what does that verse mean, teach us about that verse what is the meaning of it, if people are presuming the verse means they were blameless and walked in all the commandments ordinance?

that is what I thought it meant, what is the correct understanding of it?

 

[IamWhoIam]

This is my thoughts on it, no where that I know of in the bible that says only those who have sin have a chance to come to the Father.

but scripture does say anyone who believes in Jesus and because of that belief in Jesus is the Son of God does have away to the Father.

even a person who has never sinned in their life may not have a path to the father if they don't believe in Jesus.

the deciples told Jesus of a man driving out demons in his name, and Jesus said anyone who is not against us, is for us.

no longer will just abiding in the Ten Commandments get you saved, it's believing in Jesus the Son of God, regardless if you sin or not. it's believing in Jesus the Son of God that leads to salvation.

 

[oldethennew]

Name one person, apart from Jesus, who didn't choose evil ever.

As for God not being sovereign? ("God does not determine whom He will save.") I will never serve such a god![/QUOTE
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ROMANS 11:4.
But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men,
'who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal'.

 

[oldethennew]

This is my thoughts on it, no where that I know of in the bible that says only those who have sin have a chance to come to the Father.

but scripture does say anyone who believes in Jesus and because of that belief in Jesus is the Son of God does have away to the Father.
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the '10', are from God's Heart, placed by Him into our hearts, this is how we survive and live,
day by day...we all will be judged' by our 'obedience' to Him and His Ways that He has taught us
from the Holy Scriptures upon 'CONVERSION'...

REV. 12:16.
And the earth helped the Woman, = CHURCH - and the earth opened her mouth,
and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.