Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes it is ridiculous that you are using Paul's writings to justify your unbelief..

Put those verses back in context... and learn that there was an Old Covenant and a New Covenant.. one GOD wrote His Law in stone and the New.. He said He would write them on our Heart and put them in our Mind....

Paul is teaching the New in place of the Old... yet the unlearned wrestle... and you wrestle because you can not believe that Jesus taught the Royal Law which is to Love GOD and each other which the 10 are the base of.. but if the word is not mixed with Faith it profits not.

We are saved by Grace through Faith unto good works.... the Holy Spirit is not given by our works.. not it is given by believing.. and then growing in Grace and knowledge of Christ who is within us lighting the way Home as we abide here on earth.. while our mortal body houses our Spirit until we put on the immortal.

Let us be found worthy to walk in white by being Faithful to our First Love...

lol.. No, Your denying these verses to justify your belief.

Those verses ALL talk about people trying to earn their justification by works. Which is what you are promoting, and all of those like you who teach we MAITNIAN our salvation by our works.

Your the one in unbelief my friend, You deny God can save you completely so you have to add your works to maintain your salvation.

A work is a work is a work. As paul said many times, A work is done to earn a wage, Where as Grace is freely given.

Also. A few of these passages I used had nothing to do with law. So your misinterpreting them also.

I believe God justified me completely, Has perfected me, is sanctifying me, and will complete the work in me he started.

For some reason, you deny this, and I can only assume it is based on unbelief,

By the way. I will found worthy by christ who is in me, on my own merit,m I am unworthy, and will always be that way.

The fact you think you can be found worthy based on your merit should SCARE YOU!

 

[PHart]

u got any good sermons on imputed righteousness of Christ i should check out u see?????? i wanna learn something more of it. we are still called to repent and behave well u see. so while we got the righteousness of Christ we are also to do good n tings...... maybe one is for salvation(imputed) and one is for God's glory and fruit of salvation (our own righteous deeds in eph 2:10, 1 john 3:7) am i on the right track u see??????

At the Judgment, Christ won't be looking for your profession of faith, he will be looking for the evidence of your faith. But the church is so sure faith 'alone' is going to carry them through the coming Judgment, not realizing that the faith that will save them on that Day is the faith that can be seen in what it does. But so many in the church are claiming their dead faith (faith minus works) is also the faith that saves. And they take false comfort in that. They don't understand that works are the barometer of faith.

 

[loveme1]

Is your house built on the rock (christ) or the sand (your works)?

if christ is not our root. Nothign else matters,. You can obey all you want, you will be lost. Just ask the pharisees how well obedience to God helped them

Are you really that blind to the Truth?

Have you read the Old Testament?

I Love Trust and obey Heavenly Father through Faith in the Messiah and your threat moves me not for Christ is my foundation, GOD be thanked.

If Christ had not come to Redeem me I would be dead in my trespasses so do not think I would consider anything I do worthy.. for any fruit I bear through my branch is for the Glory of GOD and the Messiah whom feed nourish and keep me.


I was lost and my Shepherd came to Restore my soul... I love and never want to be without again so Hear and follow His voice.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lol, the Pharisees did not obey God.

No one did. All have sinned and fall short.

Like many workers today, They THINK they did.

And by the way, According to Christ, they obeyed better than anyone else in his day. (Your righteousness must EXCEDE theirs to be saved, a task which no one could do, even when the girl was brought, what's did jesus say> let he who has no sin cast their first stone)

If salvation was a merited offer. The Pharisee would have gotten it before anyone else. Butt salvation was only a merited offer to someone who OBEYED COMPLETELY THE WHOLE LAW, which ONLY christ did.

But It just goes to show. You think one can lose faith because you have yet to find faith yourself. Because you do not understand the word.

 

[preacher4truth]

u got any good sermons on imputed righteousness of Christ i should check out u see?????? i wanna learn something more of it. we are still called to repent and behave well u see. so while we got the righteousness of Christ we are also to do good n tings...... maybe one is for salvation(imputed) and one is for God's glory and fruit of salvation (our own righteous deeds in eph 2:10, 1 john 3:7) am i on the right track u see??????

Not right off hand on the videos. Youtube it and see if you find anything good and share it bro. Yes, good works accompany true conversion.

 

[PHart]

A work is a work is a work. As paul said many times, A work is done to earn a wage...

And therein lies the church's ignorance about this subject. They have been trained to instantly think 'works justification' at the mere mention of works in any and all contexts. Except of course when they are giving works lip service and they say out the other side of their mouth that true believers will have works. Yet they argue endlessly with those of us who share the scriptures about how the faith that justifies is the faith that works. It would be quite amusing if this were not a life and death issue.

 

[PHart]

Yes, good works accompany true conversion.

And yet you go to fist-a-cuffs if someone says works must accompany salvation. You call them 'workers for', but if you say it, it doesn't mean that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you really that blind to the Truth?

Have you read the Old Testament?

I Love Trust and obey Heavenly Father through Faith in the Messiah and your threat moves me not for Christ is my foundation, GOD be thanked.

If Christ had not come to Redeem me I would be dead in my trespasses so do not think I would consider anything I do worthy.. for any fruit I bear through my branch is for the Glory of GOD and the Messiah whom feed nourish and keep me.


I was lost and my Shepherd came to Restore my soul... I love and never want to be without again so Hear and follow His voice.

No, I am not blind to truth

Truth is, I CAN NOT MERIT MY SAlVATION

truth is THE LAW CONDEMS ME, BECAUSE I HAVE NOT OBEYED EVERY WORD

truth is, I CAN ONLY BE SAVED BY GRACE

truth is, I AM JUSTIFIED BY GACE THROUGH FAITH AND NOT BY WORKS.

Truth is, I AM SAVED NOT BY WORKS OF RIOGHTEOUSNESS, BUT BY GODS MERCY

Truth is IF I TRY TO ADD WORKS, I CANCEL OUT GRACE, BECAUSE IT CAN ONLY BE OF GACE OR WORKS. Not BOTH.

Truth is, PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRUE SAVING FAITH WORK

truth is THOSE WHO DO NOT WILL NOT WORK, OR WILL ONLY PRODUCE SELF RIGHTEOUS WORKS (obey Gods works but only to earn or maintain salvation)

When will you listen to gods truth and stop trying to earn salvation? Open your eyes and stop trying to be a modern day Pharisee!

 

[garee]

Yep,. Because works cancel out grace. As paul said, if it is of grace it is no longer of works, otherwise Grace stops being grace. And vice verse

It all depend if a person includes God in the description. We are saved by his work of faith or labor of His love. Most deny the faith of God in the description.

They conclude either God does not have faith or he does not need it . But the law of faith applies to the giver as well as us who receive the glory or fruit of His work . The law not subject to change...Faith without works is dead.

Grace the unmerited favor does not appose works . We are given the grace gift of God that he earned through the work of God. It is God who works in us and not from us as His gift/grace to both will and do His good pleasure.

Without His faith as a labor of His love working in us there would be no free reward to them that diligently seek him.He is the substance by which we can seek after Him as the rewarded.


Its is the faith of God that works in us that is being described in Hebrews 11. We need his faith to please Him .

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarded of them that diligently seek him.By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.Heb 11:6


Faith is a work of God that supplies the grace of God.

All three belong to God. and not of our own selves. it just when men try and separate the work of God from the faith in the Ephesian account. Living faith is a work. It works to reconcile Paul in Ephesian with James.

When we see the word faith and remove the fact that it is a work a perosn ends up with no faith . A discription to those who have not been given the grace of God through the work of God.

(Purple in parenthesis) my comment in respect to the law of faith without works it is dead.

For by grace are ye saved through (the work of Christ's ) faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works(that we have done), lest any man should boast.Eph 2:8

No works no salvation.No God. No grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And therein lies the church's ignorance about this subject. They have been trained to instantly think 'works justification' at the mere mention of works in any and all contexts. Except of course when they are giving works lip service and they say out the other side of their mouth that true believers will have works. Yet they argue endlessly with those of us who share the scriptures about how the faith that justifies is the faith that works. It would be quite amusing if this were not a life and death issue.

Dude, you just slandered a whole bunch of people. You better repent. We are getting sick of you liars who preach works, yet every day you come in and beware false witness against a whole group of people you do not understand. And claim they preach things which have never left their mouths, or their computers.

Not one person in this room is teaching works are a bad thing, or that people can go on and live any way they want.

What we are talking about is people who adding works to the gospel of christ, saying they are REQUIRED to MAINTAIN salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”

We obey the Son by choosing to believe in the Son in order to receive everlasting life. The KJV translation says "believeth not the Son" and the NIV says "rejects the Son."

The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In 3:36, to not obey the Son means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.

In John 3:36, we read - "He that BELIEVES IN the Son has everlasting life".. *Notice that this BELIEF is not in yourself or in works. *Notice also that this BELIEF is not in Jesus Christ "plus something else" otherwise the BELIEF (trust, reliance) would not be "IN THE SON".

 

[loveme1]

lol.. No, Your denying these verses to justify your belief.

Those verses ALL talk about people trying to earn their justification by works. Which is what you are promoting, and all of those like you who teach we MAITNIAN our salvation by our works.

Your the one in unbelief my friend, You deny God can save you completely so you have to add your works to maintain your salvation.

A work is a work is a work. As paul said many times, A work is done to earn a wage, Where as Grace is freely given.

Also. A few of these passages I used had nothing to do with law. So your misinterpreting them also.

I believe God justified me completely, Has perfected me, is sanctifying me, and will complete the work in me he started.

For some reason, you deny this, and I can only assume it is based on unbelief,

By the way. I will found worthy by christ who is in me, on my own merit,m I am unworthy, and will always be that way.

The fact you think you can be found worthy based on your merit should SCARE YOU!

You make a speech but you have not the Truth in you... for Christ teaches us that not all are worthy to walk with Him in white.. so instead of humbling yourself to be counted worthy by listening and doing what He instructs.. you teach the idea we can enter in no matter what.. I think not..

For GOD will finish what He starts in us who believe.. but the highminded who think they have a GOD given right to eternal life are rejecting The Messiah's Testimony and warnings believing that they are owed a crown.. The Messiah gives us a warning in Revelation to Repent and Believe.. to strive for perfect works and to not defile our garment... and I believe Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It all depend if a person includes God in the description. We are saved by his work of faith or labor of His love. Most deny the faith of God in the description.

They conclude either God does not have faith or he does not need it . But the law of faith applies to the giver as well as us who receive the glory or fruit of His work . The law not subject to change...Faith without works is dead.

Grace the unmerited favor does not appose works . We are given the grace gift of God that he earned through the work of God. It is God who works in us and not from us as His gift/grace to both will and do His good pleasure.

Without His faith as a labor of His love working in us there would be no free reward to them that diligently seek him.He is the substance by which we can seek after Him as the rewarded.


Its is the faith of God that works in us that is being described in Hebrews 11. We need his faith to please Him .

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarded of them that diligently seek him.By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.Heb 11:6


Faith is a work of God that supplies the grace of God.

All three belong to God. and not of our own selves. it just when men try and separate the work of God from the faith in the Ephesian account. Living faith is a work. It works to reconcile Paul in Ephesian with James.

When we see the word faith and remove the fact that it is a work a perosn ends up with no faith . A discription to those who have not been given the grace of God through the work of God.

(Purple in parenthesis) my comment in respect to the law of faith without works it is dead.

For by grace are ye saved through (the work of Christ's ) faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works(that we have done), lest any man should boast.Eph 2:8

No works no salvation.No God. No grace.

true faith works.

It was Abrahams strong faith in God that caused him to leave, to sacrifice

It was Noah's strong faith and trust in God which caused him to endure the making of the ark for 100 years

Faith works. We are created for good works (eph 2; 10).

A child of God has a new nature, that nature wills to do the work of God. It is against that new nature to not do the work of God. A child of God will not be workless. it is against his nature, it is just as hard for a child of God to NOT do works, as it is for a non child of God to do works.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Anyone who believes, and is saved, is worthy to walk with God. However, those who do works for the sole purpose of keeping and maintaining salvation, are NOT worthy..

You make a speech but you have not the Truth in you... for Christ teaches us that not all are worthy to walk with Him in white.. so instead of humbling yourself to be counted worthy by listening and doing what He instructs.. you teach the idea we can enter in no matter what.. I think not..

For GOD will finish what He starts in us who believe.. but the highminded who think they have a GOD given right to eternal life are rejecting The Messiah's Testimony and warnings believing that they are owed a crown.. The Messiah gives us a warning in Revelation to Repent and Believe.. to strive for perfect works and to not defile our garment... and I believe Him.

 

[blue_ladybug]

That was EG's point...

Lol, the Pharisees did not obey God.

 

[PHart]

No, I am not blind to truth

Truth is, I CAN NOT MERIT MY SAlVATION

Seriously, guy, you are the one not listening. No one is saying works justify (make one righteous). No one. They're saying what you give lip service to--that the true believer will work. But for some reason if we say it, it means we are trying to earn our own salvation, but when you say it, it doesn't.

truth is THE LAW CONDEMS ME, BECAUSE I HAVE NOT OBEYED EVERY WORD

And so this is an excuse to write it off completely as not to be done?

Truth is IF I TRY TO ADD WORKS, I CANCEL OUT GRACE

No, you complete faith when you work. Do you know what that means? It's when you add works FOR THE PURPOSE OF JUSTIFICATION that you cancel out grace. But the church has been taught that any works for any reason is you trying to save yourself....except of course when they are giving lip service to works.

, BECAUSE IT CAN ONLY BE OF GACE OR WORKS. Not BOTH.

Works with grace does not have to automatically and without exception mean justification is by works. It doesn't mean that when YOU say faith and works go together. But for some reason, that you can not explain, it means that when someone else tells you they go together.

Truth is, PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRUE SAVING FAITH WORK

So why are you arguing with us?
Good grief, man. Listen to yourself.

When will you listen to gods truth and stop trying to earn salvation? Open your eyes and stop trying to be a modern day Pharisee!

You are the modern Pharisee. You have a distortion of the truth that you defend like a soldier and you bash those who don't agree with your doctrine while you look down your nose at them as inferiors. I do not see God's love in how you handle this issue. None. You can get angry and beat me up verbally for saying that, but that will only prove my point. But if you are humble you'd take it to heart and consider it. Let's see how you handle it.

Will he examine his heart, or lash out at me. Let's see.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You make a speech but you have not the Truth in you... for Christ teaches us that not all are worthy to walk with Him in white.. so instead of humbling yourself to be counted worthy by listening and doing what He instructs.. you teach the idea we can enter in no matter what.. I think not..

For GOD will finish what He starts in us who believe.. but the highminded who think they have a GOD given right to eternal life are rejecting The Messiah's Testimony and warnings believing that they are owed a crown.. The Messiah gives us a warning in Revelation to Repent and Believe.. to strive for perfect works and to not defile our garment... and I believe Him.

You have no truth in you. You can not even repeat what I said. I never said the bolder things you claim I said.

The law teaches that not all are worthy, That is why Christ had to the not only the sacrificial lamb, but the high priest. Who takes away all our sins. But he will not force it on you, he wants you to recieve his gift as is.

you are adding Works to his gift, Proving you do not trust his gift, You think you have to add to it to make it work. His gift is not enough. Thus you have rejected it.

If you think you will make yourself worthy, You will fail, and you will be lost.

 

[loveme1]

No, I am not blind to truth

Truth is, I CAN NOT MERIT MY SAlVATION

truth is THE LAW CONDEMS ME, BECAUSE I HAVE NOT OBEYED EVERY WORD

truth is, I CAN ONLY BE SAVED BY GRACE

truth is, I AM JUSTIFIED BY GACE THROUGH FAITH AND NOT BY WORKS.

Truth is, I AM SAVED NOT BY WORKS OF RIOGHTEOUSNESS, BUT BY GODS MERCY

Truth is IF I TRY TO ADD WORKS, I CANCEL OUT GRACE, BECAUSE IT CAN ONLY BE OF GACE OR WORKS. Not BOTH.

Truth is, PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRUE SAVING FAITH WORK

truth is THOSE WHO DO NOT WILL NOT WORK, OR WILL ONLY PRODUCE SELF RIGHTEOUS WORKS (obey Gods works but only to earn or maintain salvation)

When will you listen to gods truth and stop trying to earn salvation? Open your eyes and stop trying to be a modern day Pharisee!

Yes those with True Saving Faith work because they were saved to do the works taught them by their Lord whom they Love because He Loved them.. the same Lord teaches us the Commandments and to be perfect and Righteous... to Love and forgive as we are Loved and forgiven.. the same Lord gives us warnings that our works are not perfect.. that we may not be worthy to walk in white with Him.. the same Lord that says my reward is with me to give to every man according to his works... the same Lord who states Blessed are they that do His Commandments that they may have the right to the Tree of life.. yes the same Lord and Saviour that teaches us it is better to cut off our hand or pluck out our eye than sin...

The saints Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Faith of Jesus.. how plainer can it be yet you believe not.

Heavenly Father I share your Truth for your Glory and the Salvation of man.. may many come to seek you diligently through your Son's Testament. For no one comes to the Father without the Son neither the Son without the Father. You are One and you are Love and Truth with Everlasting goodness.. may every knee bow.. for this you deserve always and forever.

 

[PHart]

That was EG's point...

No it wasn't.

The Pharisees did NOT keep the law. Yet we have people here eager to keep the law out of love for God and they are the one's that get called the Pharisee. Go figure.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Seriously, guy, you are the one not listening. No one is saying works justify (make one righteous). No one. They're saying what you give lip service to--that the true believer will work. But for some reason if we say it, it means we are trying to earn our own salvation, but when you say it, it doesn't.

You are not reading very well. It is all overt the place.

And so this is an excuse to write it off completely as not to be done?

there you go again, Slander away, Who is writiing the law off? WHo Is writing works off. No one is,

We are writing the false gospel that works are required to maintain salvation off. The fact you are arguing against us only proves you are one of them.

No, you complete faith when you work. Do you know what that means? It's when you add works FOR THE PURPOSE OF JUSTIFICATION that you cancel out grace. But the church has been taught that any works for any reason is you trying to save yourself....except of course when they are giving lip service to works.

thatys funny, That is what I have said since day one, of course, you would know that if you EVER listened to people. And stopped your selective reading skills.

of course, God knew my faith was real the moment i trusted, The only one who needed to complete it was me, for my benefit.

Works with grace does not have to automatically and without exception mean justification is by works. It doesn't mean that when YOU say faith and works go together. But for some reason, that you can not explain, it means that when someone else tells you they go together.


So why are you arguing with us?
Good grief, man. Listen to yourself.

They claim it is done to maintain salvation., WHY DO YOU DENY IT?? WHY??

Then again, you do not listen to anyone, it is not surprising you can not hear yourself.

You are the modern Pharisee. You have a distortion of the truth that you defend like a soldier and you bash those who don't agree with your doctrine while you look down your nose at them as inferiors. I do not see God's love in how you handle this issue. None. You can get angry and beat me up verbally for saying that, but that will only prove my point. But if you are humble you'd take it to heart and consider it. Let's see how you handle it.

Will he examine his heart, or lash out at me. Let's see.

lol.. I am bashing a gospel. Not people.

You do not even know what they teach, you deny they teach what they do..

lol.. By your defenition, Jesus and paul bashed some people pretty good. Because they stood up to a false gospel.