Not By Works
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Finally, a post of yours I can like!
As I've been saying, only the presently believing person has eternal life. The condition for eternal life is that you are presently believing. That's why we must endure to the end in our faith to be saved in the end.
Now you can argue that the true believer will never stop believing because he can't stop believing and that's fine, but that's just another way of saying the believer must continue to believe to the very end to be saved because he must show himself to be a true believer by believing to the very end.
If the only disagreement we have is that you believe that the true believer can never stop believing and I believe he can, then we're good. I can live with that disagreement. Can you?
As I've been saying, only the presently believing person has eternal life. The condition for eternal life is that you are presently believing. That's why we must endure to the end in our faith to be saved in the end.
"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
14...if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain."
(1 Corinthians 15:1-2,14 NASB)
14...if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain."
(1 Corinthians 15:1-2,14 NASB)
Now you can argue that the true believer will never stop believing because he can't stop believing and that's fine, but that's just another way of saying the believer must continue to believe to the very end to be saved because he must show himself to be a true believer by believing to the very end.
If the only disagreement we have is that you believe that the true believer can never stop believing and I believe he can, then we're good. I can live with that disagreement. Can you?
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You're conflating descriptive texts with prescriptive texts which you do often without ceasing.
No believer loses salvation, that is where your works to maintain your salvation ride in and distort the Gospel making it without effect and void because it is another gospel altogether.
Romans 8:28-39 - the golden chain of redemption that cannot be broken. The believer, all believers, all true converts will experience each phase of salvation, and none will be lost. You just don't happen to believe that Gospel.
There is no escaping it no matter how many times you attempt to reconcile it: If you don't keep on doing something, in your case keep on believing via effort, and to stop believing, and/or stop believing and do something stupid you've failed to maintain your salvation and are then headed to hell. No true convert stops believing.
Thus in your above false gospel Christ hasn't saved you, he's only afforded you an opportunity to be a good little boy and make it in by effort and as long you don't do something stupid. Otherwise you go to hell.
No believer loses salvation, that is where your works to maintain your salvation ride in and distort the Gospel making it without effect and void because it is another gospel altogether.
Romans 8:28-39 - the golden chain of redemption that cannot be broken. The believer, all believers, all true converts will experience each phase of salvation, and none will be lost. You just don't happen to believe that Gospel.
There is no escaping it no matter how many times you attempt to reconcile it: If you don't keep on doing something, in your case keep on believing via effort, and to stop believing, and/or stop believing and do something stupid you've failed to maintain your salvation and are then headed to hell. No true convert stops believing.
Thus in your above false gospel Christ hasn't saved you, he's only afforded you an opportunity to be a good little boy and make it in by effort and as long you don't do something stupid. Otherwise you go to hell.
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Did Jesus begin the work of faith in the one possessing everlasting life? YES
HE will FINISH IT AND COMPLETE IT.
YOUR JESUS is a weak, inept and a LIAR because you say HE WILL NOT finish it or complete it and you can walk away LOST....
Exactly why you push a false JESUS and a false gospel! AND how is it that YOU CANNOT see NOR understand that if JESUS begins a work of faith HE WILL FINISH and COMPLETE IT....?
MUST be the corrupt root of your pseudo salvation!
HE will FINISH IT AND COMPLETE IT.
YOUR JESUS is a weak, inept and a LIAR because you say HE WILL NOT finish it or complete it and you can walk away LOST....
Exactly why you push a false JESUS and a false gospel! AND how is it that YOU CANNOT see NOR understand that if JESUS begins a work of faith HE WILL FINISH and COMPLETE IT....?
MUST be the corrupt root of your pseudo salvation!
This is indeed a very strange website. When God's Word is shared, it is a two edged sword, at it's appearance, many suddenly disappear and are silent. When they return they claim that the scriptures have been refuted without telling you why when in fact the posts have been ignored and not responded to. Instead many are pointed to the books of men and the words of website over the Word of God. Many do not realize that the Word of God is forever. It is here to stay and will judge us all in the last days. It draws us who believe with an everlasting love and with loving kindness knocking at the door of the heart because it works by love. Those that hear His voice will open the door and let him in. Those that say they see will remain blind but the blind are really those that see because they hear His voice calling them home. The blind walk by their faith and not by sight. The mirror shows the way who will look into it and see themselves to see the one who loves all? Who will hear the voice of the one who calls all. Many are called. He is calling all but few will hear him because narrow is the way.....
God bless you
God bless you
You guys really like to distort the truth so much it seems obvious who leads you.....EG, I, the Preacher, MAILMANDAN and numerous others have addressed the context of HEBREWS 10 so many times in this thread that there is no reason to cover it again....You workers for, lawyers and Pharisees continually use this verse in Hebrews to push a losable salvation which the text does not support.....keep believing that and trusting into your works and abilities to keep yourselves saved.....there is a number you will end up in at the end of the day.....it is described as MANY......and to be more precise...PLENTEOUS in NUMBER!
For being one who claims to keep the commandments you sure break a few quite regularly......such as bearing false witness and lying or distorting what people say and or have done......everyone of your posts have been answered with scripture in context at one time or another to the point that we now just reference context because all you do is cut and paste scripture out of context to hang your beliefs on.....how is it that you, your working for buddies and all lawyers/Pharisees cannot be honest?
Really sir? Please tell me which commandments I have broken and where I have ever born false witness? If you cannot show me does that mean you are bearing false witness against me? I share God's Word in love but you do not hear it because you choose to close your eyes to see and your ears to hear. I do not judge you or anyone here. It is only the Word of God that judges all and His Spirit bares witness with mine that I walk in him and he in me because I speak His Words. These are not my words but the Words of Him who sends me. They are in context and bare witness for all to see and hear.
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You can give up pushing your working for dogma on me.....
NO ONE can OBEY, WORK, SERVE, KNOW the WORD, APPLY THE WORD and any other like statement unless they have been BORN AGAIN BY FAITH FROM ABOVE ALREADY......and the BIBLE IS CLEAR.....SOME are faithful and bear gold, silver and precious stones and SOME are NOT FAITHFUL and bear wood, hay and stubble yet BOTH ARE SAVED because SALVATION IS A ONE OFF ETERNAL EVENT based UPON FAITH.
IT pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save the that BELIEVE<----NO WORKS or Pharisee-ism mentioned!
NO ONE can OBEY, WORK, SERVE, KNOW the WORD, APPLY THE WORD and any other like statement unless they have been BORN AGAIN BY FAITH FROM ABOVE ALREADY......and the BIBLE IS CLEAR.....SOME are faithful and bear gold, silver and precious stones and SOME are NOT FAITHFUL and bear wood, hay and stubble yet BOTH ARE SAVED because SALVATION IS A ONE OFF ETERNAL EVENT based UPON FAITH.
IT pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save the that BELIEVE<----NO WORKS or Pharisee-ism mentioned!
God bless you
THE blind walk by faith HEY.....exactly opposite of what JESUS said......and the rest of the bolded is false....and pay attention to what I SAID....and the WORDS I USED....YOUR points HAVE been answered with SCRIPTURE at ONE POINT OR ANOTHER so your all encompassing statement is FALSE.........
everyone of your posts have been answered with scripture in context at one time or another to the point that we now just reference context because all you do is cut and paste scripture out of context to hang your beliefs on.....
and the post above that one....
EG, I, the Preacher, MAILMANDAN and numerous others have addressed the context of HEBREWS 10 so many times in this thread that there is no reason to cover it again.
E
This strawman is so old. Who is preaching living in sin while being saved?
Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith to those who obey him in the gospel..
The starting point is the point you are born again, the finishing point is the point you are ressurected.
Once it starts. It will not stop. Or else God lied.
Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith to those who obey him in the gospel..
The starting point is the point you are born again, the finishing point is the point you are ressurected.
Once it starts. It will not stop. Or else God lied.
AMEN to that..........begins-----finishes------>COMPLETES
If one has trusted into Christ and been saved by faith they WILL be brought to the FINISH line and COMPLETED by JESUS......to say otherwise is to pit scripture against scripture, make JESUS into a liar, inept and unable to keep his word, negates the power of the Holy Spirit's seal which GOD said is UNTO the day of redemption (COMPLETION POINT) and tramples ALL of the promises and power of JESUS under foot.
If one has trusted into Christ and been saved by faith they WILL be brought to the FINISH line and COMPLETED by JESUS......to say otherwise is to pit scripture against scripture, make JESUS into a liar, inept and unable to keep his word, negates the power of the Holy Spirit's seal which GOD said is UNTO the day of redemption (COMPLETION POINT) and tramples ALL of the promises and power of JESUS under foot.
God bless you
THE blind walk by faith HEY.....exactly opposite of what JESUS said......and the rest of the bolded is false....and pay attention to what I SAID....and the WORDS I USED....YOUR points HAVE been answered with SCRIPTURE at ONE POINT OR ANOTHER so your all encompassing statement is FALSE.........
everyone of your posts have been answered with scripture in context at one time or another to the point that we now just reference context because all you do is cut and paste scripture out of context to hang your beliefs on.....
and the post above that one....
EG, I, the Preacher, MAILMANDAN and numerous others have addressed the context of HEBREWS 10 so many times in this thread that there is no reason to cover it again.
Goodnight friend.....
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Now you said a lot there, but once again, you do not tie obedience to LOVE; when it is GOD's LOVE poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit that PRODUCES loving Obedience within us. It has NOTHING TO DO with earning part of our Righteousness, but rather it is EXPRESSING OUR LOVE FOR HIM. Obedience for the WRONG REASON is a pile of filthy rags.
John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15[/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.
SEE IT? LOVING HIM - AUTOMATICALLY PRODUCES A LIFESTYLE OF STRIVING TO OBEY HIM; not the other way around.
OBEDIENCE DOES NOT PRODUCE "LOVE FOR HIM".
The way you phrase it, it sounds like you are getting the cart ahead of the horse. The HORSE is LOVE FOR HIM, and the CART is striving walk in obedience, as a way to express LOVE FOR HIM.
Please tell me you agree with that statement.
John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15[/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.
SEE IT? LOVING HIM - AUTOMATICALLY PRODUCES A LIFESTYLE OF STRIVING TO OBEY HIM; not the other way around.
OBEDIENCE DOES NOT PRODUCE "LOVE FOR HIM".
The way you phrase it, it sounds like you are getting the cart ahead of the horse. The HORSE is LOVE FOR HIM, and the CART is striving walk in obedience, as a way to express LOVE FOR HIM.
Please tell me you agree with that statement.
Jesus said we don't live by bread alone but by "EVERY" Word of God. So then it becomes necessary to consider all scripture to understand God, not just a few that can be used to promote doctrines and commandments of organized religious franchises.
Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Are you greater than His Disciples?
Matt. 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
So, when do we stop "Following"? And does Jesus make us follow Him, or is this a work He requires from me?
Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Matt. 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Does Jesus repent ( change) for me. Or is this a "work" required of me? Does Jesus perform the "works worthy of repentance", or am I supposed to actually do something?
Matt. 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Does Jesus do this for me as many preach? Or is this yet another work that He requires at my hand? When do I stop denying myself?
Paul, speaking of the Gentiles:
Rom. 11:20 Well; because of unbelief(disobedience) they were broken off, and thou standest by faith (Obedience). Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches,(because of teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men) take heed lest he also spare not thee.(for teaching for doctrines the commandments of men)
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
1 Cor. 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
The warnings go on and on. Yet you have somehow been convinced you are immune from them. And you are pretty hard on those who try and help you see why there are so many warnings.
Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
There can be no argument that it was their works that disqualified these "MANY" that come in Christ's name. But I already know what you will say.
"they weren't saved to begin with". I've heard this over and over from the OSAS folks and others as well.
But maybe if these "Many" had listened to "EVERY" word that the Bible says and not just the few their religious leaders used to promote some religious franchises traditions and doctrines of men, they would not have been deceived.
Maybe if they would have used the test God gives us to check ourselves. Like the "Law of Liberty" and become "doers of the Law and not just pay lip service to Jesus, their eyes might have been opened. (Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.)
Maybe if they had listened to 1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
It doesn't automatically make someone a "false preacher" just because they believe "EVERY WORD" of scripture.
There are some who simply understand that Jesus doesn't make useless warnings. That we can become deceived just like others who claim Jesus as their savior.
You guys can go ahead and make the claim:
I'm saved, by God, and not Moses, or Jesus or God Almighty is going to tell me differently.
But I'm sticking to the Word.
Rom. 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Are you greater than His Disciples?
Matt. 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
So, when do we stop "Following"? And does Jesus make us follow Him, or is this a work He requires from me?
Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Matt. 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Does Jesus repent ( change) for me. Or is this a "work" required of me? Does Jesus perform the "works worthy of repentance", or am I supposed to actually do something?
Matt. 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Does Jesus do this for me as many preach? Or is this yet another work that He requires at my hand? When do I stop denying myself?
Paul, speaking of the Gentiles:
Rom. 11:20 Well; because of unbelief(disobedience) they were broken off, and thou standest by faith (Obedience). Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches,(because of teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men) take heed lest he also spare not thee.(for teaching for doctrines the commandments of men)
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
1 Cor. 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
The warnings go on and on. Yet you have somehow been convinced you are immune from them. And you are pretty hard on those who try and help you see why there are so many warnings.
Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
There can be no argument that it was their works that disqualified these "MANY" that come in Christ's name. But I already know what you will say.
"they weren't saved to begin with". I've heard this over and over from the OSAS folks and others as well.
But maybe if these "Many" had listened to "EVERY" word that the Bible says and not just the few their religious leaders used to promote some religious franchises traditions and doctrines of men, they would not have been deceived.
Maybe if they would have used the test God gives us to check ourselves. Like the "Law of Liberty" and become "doers of the Law and not just pay lip service to Jesus, their eyes might have been opened. (Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.)
Maybe if they had listened to 1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
It doesn't automatically make someone a "false preacher" just because they believe "EVERY WORD" of scripture.
There are some who simply understand that Jesus doesn't make useless warnings. That we can become deceived just like others who claim Jesus as their savior.
You guys can go ahead and make the claim:
I'm saved, by God, and not Moses, or Jesus or God Almighty is going to tell me differently.
But I'm sticking to the Word.
Rom. 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
P
Well, one of the reasons is Hebrews 10. You know, the passage you've never bothered to explain according to your theology.
Yes, I know......everyone who doesn't hold your particular concept of Jesus, but who, nevertheless, trusts in the blood alone for justification is lost. I know, I know, lol.
"10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
26For if we (sanctified believers) go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:10,14,26-31 NASB)
26For if we (sanctified believers) go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:10,14,26-31 NASB)
Yes, I know......everyone who doesn't hold your particular concept of Jesus, but who, nevertheless, trusts in the blood alone for justification is lost. I know, I know, lol.