Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 31:13, "Speak also to the children of Israyl, saying; Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for they are a *sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am YHWH Who sanctifies you, and makes you holy."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*“sign” is word #226, Hebrew Dictionary,Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]meaning mark, token, sign, consent, flag, evidence of consent.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; ‘You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 31:13, "Speak also to the children of Israyl, saying; Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for they are a *sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am YHWH Who sanctifies you, and makes you holy."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*“sign” is word #226, Hebrew Dictionary,Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]meaning mark, token, sign, consent, flag, evidence of consent.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; ‘You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
yes, there are pictures. types and shadows. beautiful, and more than enough to teach the people of God about it so they might be saved. if the Old Testament IS the Gospel of Christ, what are all those epistles about? why did God give us more revelation than that?
i'm sure believers love all of God's Word.
ugh, this thread gives me a headache! and a heartache.
farewell, all who depend solely on the righteousness of Christ! He will not fail you!
We are not perfect, no man, only Yahshua, I agree. The Law is not recorded in writing until Mosheh, however, Scripture says Abraham and Noah had both obeyed His laws, It is my belief that when the children of Israyl went into egyptian captivity they fogot all His ways, this is shown by the fact that Yah'sname was know as far back as Genesis 4:26, and yet Moses did not know it until Yah told Him in Exodus 3.
Genesis 7:1-2, "Then YHWH said to Noah: Come into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen you righteous before Me in this generation. You shall take with you seven pairs of every clean animal, a male and his female; two of animals that are unclean, a male and his female;"
Leviticus 11:1-2, "And YHWH spoke to Mosheh and Aaron, saying to them: Speak to the children of Israyl, saying; These are the animals you may eat among all the beasts upon the land" 43-44, "You shall not make yourselves abominable with any creature that moves about on the ground. Do not defile yourselves by means of them, nor be made unclean by them. I am YHWH your Heavenly Father. You shall therefore consecrate and sanctify yourselves, and you shall be holy; for I am holy. Neither shall you defile yourselves with any creature that moves about on the ground." 46-47, "This is the Law of the animals, and the birds, and every living thing that moves in the waters, and every creature that moves about on the ground. You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean--between the animal that may be eaten, and the animal that may not be eaten."
Genesis 26:5, “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my Laws.”
Genesis 4:26, "And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. It was then that the Name of YHWH began to be invoked again."
Exodus 3:14-15, "And the Mighty One said to Mosheh, “I am that I am.” and He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Yisra’ĕl, ‘I am has sent me to you.’ (The Heḇrew text reads: ’eheyeh ’asher ’eheyeh, the word ’eheyeh, being derived from hayah, which means to be, to exist) And the Mighty One said further to Mosheh, “Thus you are to say to the children of Yisra’ĕl, ‘יהוהStrength of your fathers, the Strength of Aḇraham, the Strength of Yitsḥaq, and the Strength of Ya‛aqoḇ, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations."
1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
Ezekiyl 28:13-19, “You were in Ĕḏen, the garden of the MostHigh. Every precious stone was your covering: the ruby, topaz, and diamond, beryl, shoham, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald and gold. The workmanship of your settings and mountings was prepared for you on the day you were created. You were the anointed keruḇ that covered. And I placed you, you were on the set-apart mountain of Yah. You walked up and down in the midst of stones of fire. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, until unrighteousness was found in you. By the greatness of your trade you became filled with violence within, and you sinned. So I thrust you from the mountain of Yah, and I destroyed you, O covering keruḇ, from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was lifted up because of your loveliness, you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendour. I threw you to the earth, I laid you before sovereigns, to look at you. You profaned your set-apart places by your many crookednesses, by the unrighteousness of your trading. Therefore I brought forth fire from your midst. It has devoured you, and I turned you to ashes upon the earth before the eyes of all who see you. All who knew you among the peoples were astonished at you. Waste you shall be, and cease to be, forever.”
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 4:15, "Because the law works wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."[/FONT]
1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”
Leviticus 11:1-2, "And YHWH spoke to Mosheh and Aaron, saying to them: Speak to the children of Israyl, saying; These are the animals you may eat among all the beasts upon the land" 43-44, "You shall not make yourselves abominable with any creature that moves about on the ground. Do not defile yourselves by means of them, nor be made unclean by them. I am YHWH your Heavenly Father. You shall therefore consecrate and sanctify yourselves, and you shall be holy; for I am holy. Neither shall you defile yourselves with any creature that moves about on the ground." 46-47, "This is the Law of the animals, and the birds, and every living thing that moves in the waters, and every creature that moves about on the ground. You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean--between the animal that may be eaten, and the animal that may not be eaten."
Genesis 26:5, “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my Laws.”
Genesis 4:26, "And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. It was then that the Name of YHWH began to be invoked again."
Exodus 3:14-15, "And the Mighty One said to Mosheh, “I am that I am.” and He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Yisra’ĕl, ‘I am has sent me to you.’ (The Heḇrew text reads: ’eheyeh ’asher ’eheyeh, the word ’eheyeh, being derived from hayah, which means to be, to exist) And the Mighty One said further to Mosheh, “Thus you are to say to the children of Yisra’ĕl, ‘יהוהStrength of your fathers, the Strength of Aḇraham, the Strength of Yitsḥaq, and the Strength of Ya‛aqoḇ, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations."
1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."
1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
Ezekiyl 28:13-19, “You were in Ĕḏen, the garden of the MostHigh. Every precious stone was your covering: the ruby, topaz, and diamond, beryl, shoham, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald and gold. The workmanship of your settings and mountings was prepared for you on the day you were created. You were the anointed keruḇ that covered. And I placed you, you were on the set-apart mountain of Yah. You walked up and down in the midst of stones of fire. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, until unrighteousness was found in you. By the greatness of your trade you became filled with violence within, and you sinned. So I thrust you from the mountain of Yah, and I destroyed you, O covering keruḇ, from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was lifted up because of your loveliness, you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendour. I threw you to the earth, I laid you before sovereigns, to look at you. You profaned your set-apart places by your many crookednesses, by the unrighteousness of your trading. Therefore I brought forth fire from your midst. It has devoured you, and I turned you to ashes upon the earth before the eyes of all who see you. All who knew you among the peoples were astonished at you. Waste you shall be, and cease to be, forever.”
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 4:15, "Because the law works wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."[/FONT]
1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”
Did John say the "10 Commandments" under the Mosaic law? NO.
The Ten Commandments are repeated under the New Covenant, except for the command to keep the Sabbath.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
You are arguing with scripture, not me.
So in regards to Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost?
*Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping His commandments and practicing righteousness (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). In either sense, only believers obey Him.
Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works. So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
Turning keeping the Sabbath day with all it's rules and regulations under the Mosaic law into a legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant is not obedience, it's legalism, and for those who go even further (like the SDA church) and claim that those who do not keep the Sabbath day (and specifically on Saturday) will receive the mark of the beast and won't be saved is just plain ludicrous!
The Ten Commandments are repeated under the New Covenant, except for the command to keep the Sabbath.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
You are arguing with scripture, not me.
So in regards to Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost?
*Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping His commandments and practicing righteousness (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). In either sense, only believers obey Him.
Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works. So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
Turning keeping the Sabbath day with all it's rules and regulations under the Mosaic law into a legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant is not obedience, it's legalism, and for those who go even further (like the SDA church) and claim that those who do not keep the Sabbath day (and specifically on Saturday) will receive the mark of the beast and won't be saved is just plain ludicrous!
This passage of scripture is about "Stephen being Martyred", and now you have turned it into, a conspiracy of who murdered Stephen? "members of the Sanhedrin" and "the Synagogue of Libertines."
Quote: Studyman' point; "The pagans didn't murder Stephen, it was the God of Abraham preaching church of that day."
Point of this passage: "One man full of the Holy Spirit faces a gallery of men full of hate."
"Your bible messages are "off point" and "your insults" are worrisome."
The insults:
Quote: Studyman,
I understand how difficult it is to be corrected, most men are just too prideful to allow God's Word to humble them.
But to say that Paul isn't saying that the righteousness of God is revealed to us from "Within" the Gospel of Christ is to completely ignore this and many other scriptures of the Bible.
But I understand if you can't accept this Biblical truth, church tradition is a powerful thing.
("Who's biblical truth, yours).
......................................................................................................................
Stephen's Martyrdom
Justin Martyr, beheaded for the faith in A.D. 165 said, "The more we are persecuted, the more do others in ever increasing numbers embrace the faith and become worshippers of God through the name of Jesus" (Dialogue with Trypho 110). Contrast the impact of modern-day martyrs for other causes. Who remembers what Che Guevara stood for? Luke's account of Stephen's death helps us understand the effect dying for the gospel has, and in so doing challenges us to accept its truth claims.
Stephen's stoning climaxes his witness and introduces an important turning point in the witness of the Hellenistic Jewish Christians of Jerusalem. The intensity and scope of persecution and the extent of witness both take quantum leaps.Stephen's Accusers Respond with Rage (7:54)
Stephen's indictment (7:51-53) so penetrates "uncircumcised hearts" that the Sanhedrin is furious (literally "sawn through in their hearts"; compare 5:33). They are "torn up" not with repentant sorrow for their sins but with seething anger against the preacher of repentance. They grind their teeth with such a hissing sound, such a hateful screwing of the mouth, that Stephen knows they have but one aim: to do away with him (compare Ps 34:16 LXX; 36:12 LXX).
As we have seen before, when faced with the truth those in error will either accept the message or seek to silence the messenger, even permanently (Acts 4:18; 5:28, 40).Stephen's Execution (7:55-58)
Quote: Studyman' point; "The pagans didn't murder Stephen, it was the God of Abraham preaching church of that day."
Point of this passage: "One man full of the Holy Spirit faces a gallery of men full of hate."
"Your bible messages are "off point" and "your insults" are worrisome."
The insults:
Quote: Studyman,
I understand how difficult it is to be corrected, most men are just too prideful to allow God's Word to humble them.
But to say that Paul isn't saying that the righteousness of God is revealed to us from "Within" the Gospel of Christ is to completely ignore this and many other scriptures of the Bible.
But I understand if you can't accept this Biblical truth, church tradition is a powerful thing.
("Who's biblical truth, yours).
......................................................................................................................
Stephen's Martyrdom
Justin Martyr, beheaded for the faith in A.D. 165 said, "The more we are persecuted, the more do others in ever increasing numbers embrace the faith and become worshippers of God through the name of Jesus" (Dialogue with Trypho 110). Contrast the impact of modern-day martyrs for other causes. Who remembers what Che Guevara stood for? Luke's account of Stephen's death helps us understand the effect dying for the gospel has, and in so doing challenges us to accept its truth claims.
Stephen's stoning climaxes his witness and introduces an important turning point in the witness of the Hellenistic Jewish Christians of Jerusalem. The intensity and scope of persecution and the extent of witness both take quantum leaps.Stephen's Accusers Respond with Rage (7:54)
Stephen's indictment (7:51-53) so penetrates "uncircumcised hearts" that the Sanhedrin is furious (literally "sawn through in their hearts"; compare 5:33). They are "torn up" not with repentant sorrow for their sins but with seething anger against the preacher of repentance. They grind their teeth with such a hissing sound, such a hateful screwing of the mouth, that Stephen knows they have but one aim: to do away with him (compare Ps 34:16 LXX; 36:12 LXX).
As we have seen before, when faced with the truth those in error will either accept the message or seek to silence the messenger, even permanently (Acts 4:18; 5:28, 40).Stephen's Execution (7:55-58)
Last edited:
Thanks for responding, much appreciated.
I am not a great biblical scholar by any means.
My thoughts are that with Abraham there were no written laws or that with Noah.
God made a covenant with Abraham based on him hearing God and being obedient, and as part of the covenant God made promises to Abraham (although God required circumcision, ouch make my eyes water)
So it seems to me that the covenant with Abraham was with him alone, out of which God would bless him and all his descendants.
To me the Noahic covenant was given to all men.
Once again not a written covenant but a spoken one.
God blessed Noah and his sons and told them to populate the earth.
Plants and animals are now under human control.
Eating meat with blood in it is now forbidden.
Murder was forgiven.
Where blood was shed then those who shed blood were to have their blood shed.
God promises he would never destroy the the world by a flood again.
The rainbow was now a sign of the covenant.
Can I ask you how you feel the above ties in with written law given to Moses.
I can see and extension from the Noahic covenant with that given to Israel but not with Abraham.
is it possible that the Mosaic Law, by which I mean the 10 commandments that Jesus summed up in two which are now written our hearts were actually written on the heart of Abraham by the spoken voice of God?
As I said, not a biblical scholar.
So possibly the above thoughts of mine may actually be crap.
Although under the NC I still have an issue with command to keep the Sabbath with regards to the ways the Pharisees taught it.
I am not a great biblical scholar by any means.
My thoughts are that with Abraham there were no written laws or that with Noah.
God made a covenant with Abraham based on him hearing God and being obedient, and as part of the covenant God made promises to Abraham (although God required circumcision, ouch make my eyes water)
So it seems to me that the covenant with Abraham was with him alone, out of which God would bless him and all his descendants.
To me the Noahic covenant was given to all men.
Once again not a written covenant but a spoken one.
God blessed Noah and his sons and told them to populate the earth.
Plants and animals are now under human control.
Eating meat with blood in it is now forbidden.
Murder was forgiven.
Where blood was shed then those who shed blood were to have their blood shed.
God promises he would never destroy the the world by a flood again.
The rainbow was now a sign of the covenant.
Can I ask you how you feel the above ties in with written law given to Moses.
I can see and extension from the Noahic covenant with that given to Israel but not with Abraham.
is it possible that the Mosaic Law, by which I mean the 10 commandments that Jesus summed up in two which are now written our hearts were actually written on the heart of Abraham by the spoken voice of God?
As I said, not a biblical scholar.
So possibly the above thoughts of mine may actually be crap.
Although under the NC I still have an issue with command to keep the Sabbath with regards to the ways the Pharisees taught it.
Last edited:
IMO you are on the right track, read Scripture and pray, to him who truly, sincerely and continually seeks Yah will open the door.
Because of this;
Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."
Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."
Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah יהושע. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”
I believe that yes Yah spoke it to Abraham, but all the follow Yah in truth are a part of this Covenant/agreement/promise. It is also my beliefe that Yah gave man kind a single Covenant, He may have shown different elements of it at different times and to different peolpe, but He knows the end from the beginning and thue never had to alter things or change His plan. I believe this is shown here;
Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; ‘You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast withHim. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."
With that said, yes I believe the 2 greatest/10/613 Commandments still stand, but under Yahshua the High Priset not the Levites of course. and Yahshua taught the proper way to walk in them, the pharisees were evil and made their own law that for them circumvented Yah's Law every step of the way, while at the same time adding thousands of man made regulations that the lay people thought they had to keep.
So to sum it up, yes I believe the Law from the OT is what is summed up in the greatest Commandments;
Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete
Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.”
1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”
Because of this;
Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."
Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."
Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah יהושע. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”
I believe that yes Yah spoke it to Abraham, but all the follow Yah in truth are a part of this Covenant/agreement/promise. It is also my beliefe that Yah gave man kind a single Covenant, He may have shown different elements of it at different times and to different peolpe, but He knows the end from the beginning and thue never had to alter things or change His plan. I believe this is shown here;
Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; ‘You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast withHim. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."
With that said, yes I believe the 2 greatest/10/613 Commandments still stand, but under Yahshua the High Priset not the Levites of course. and Yahshua taught the proper way to walk in them, the pharisees were evil and made their own law that for them circumvented Yah's Law every step of the way, while at the same time adding thousands of man made regulations that the lay people thought they had to keep.
So to sum it up, yes I believe the Law from the OT is what is summed up in the greatest Commandments;
Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete
Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.”
1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”
Yes. It was actually kind of silly of me to ask a person if they were here before.
If they have no problem making a phony account after being shown the door, there should be no expectation that they would otherwise be truthful.
We all know the truth will find a way. Interesting that this individual 1st move was to make friends with DC, then stand diametrically opposed to everything DC espouses.
The little dig about Stephen being on PERMANENT ignore was a little too cutesy.
If they have no problem making a phony account after being shown the door, there should be no expectation that they would otherwise be truthful.
We all know the truth will find a way. Interesting that this individual 1st move was to make friends with DC, then stand diametrically opposed to everything DC espouses.
The little dig about Stephen being on PERMANENT ignore was a little too cutesy.
yes, there are pictures. types and shadows. beautiful, and more than enough to teach the people of God about it so they might be saved. if the Old Testament IS the Gospel of Christ, what are all those epistles about? why did God give us more revelation than that?
i'm sure believers love all of God's Word.
ugh, this thread gives me a headache! and a heartache.
farewell, all who depend solely on the righteousness of Christ! He will not fail you!
Message to Hezikiah, you are a nice respectable person as I have said to you before.
My request to you is can you "shorten your cut and paste bible verses" just a little bit.
2 or 3 of your post take up almost one whole page; that's good for you, but not for all of us.
Thanks for your consideration in this matter.
God bless
My request to you is can you "shorten your cut and paste bible verses" just a little bit.
2 or 3 of your post take up almost one whole page; that's good for you, but not for all of us.
Thanks for your consideration in this matter.
God bless
He said all:
Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete
Heaven and earth has not passed away;
Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away..."
Now I have to mention, and it is not me picking and choosing, some Laws are just for women and some are just for men, the Laws about a womand on her menstural cycle don't apply to men. In the same way the are priestly laws, laws for kings, etc. We can learn from then but if we are not High Priest it isnot our duty. That does not mean we can pick and choose and ignore Laws that do apply. Finally, this does not mean that I think I walk perfectly without sin or that anyone can or has to, but there is a ifference between a transgression and not being subject to when one studies the hebrew and greek.
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Proverbs 6:23, “For the command is a lamp, And the Torah a light, And reproofs of discipline a way of life.”[/FONT]
Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete
Heaven and earth has not passed away;
Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away..."
Now I have to mention, and it is not me picking and choosing, some Laws are just for women and some are just for men, the Laws about a womand on her menstural cycle don't apply to men. In the same way the are priestly laws, laws for kings, etc. We can learn from then but if we are not High Priest it isnot our duty. That does not mean we can pick and choose and ignore Laws that do apply. Finally, this does not mean that I think I walk perfectly without sin or that anyone can or has to, but there is a ifference between a transgression and not being subject to when one studies the hebrew and greek.
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Proverbs 6:23, “For the command is a lamp, And the Torah a light, And reproofs of discipline a way of life.”[/FONT]
Very sad that believers just want to tear each other apart.
Lots of people on this forum.
Genuine loving people.
Hurting and struggling people.
Those wishing to help.
Those wanting help.
Those wishing to impose.
I saw something on a thread today.
Someone was struggling with forgiving.
One person response was “If you don’t forgive then God won’t forgive you”
Didn’t address the issue of the poster.
The poster responded with “Yes I know this but it’s still a problem for me”
The response to that was “Christians will be hated, if you can’t stand the heat then get out of the kitchen”
Truly shocking indeed. Did Jesus say to Peter when he asked him about how many times must I forgive with get out of the kitchen?
I wanted to respond to this person but I couldn’t. If I did then I would probably have been banned.
This breaks my heart and it truly does. It brings tears to my eyes.
Its like believers are hell bent on bringing each other down. I have seen many a wounded struggling person on this forum and some just add to it by putting them down and quoting bible verses.
No love or compassion. The opposite of Jesus who came for such people and the same Jesus who rebuked those with no love or compassion.
Why would hurting people who need Jesus come to our church today when all they can see is a church that fights and bites against each other?
When belivers devour and shoot their own why put yourself in the firing line?
If I wasn’t a believer I surely wouldn’t.
Lots of people on this forum.
Genuine loving people.
Hurting and struggling people.
Those wishing to help.
Those wanting help.
Those wishing to impose.
I saw something on a thread today.
Someone was struggling with forgiving.
One person response was “If you don’t forgive then God won’t forgive you”
Didn’t address the issue of the poster.
The poster responded with “Yes I know this but it’s still a problem for me”
The response to that was “Christians will be hated, if you can’t stand the heat then get out of the kitchen”
Truly shocking indeed. Did Jesus say to Peter when he asked him about how many times must I forgive with get out of the kitchen?
I wanted to respond to this person but I couldn’t. If I did then I would probably have been banned.
This breaks my heart and it truly does. It brings tears to my eyes.
Its like believers are hell bent on bringing each other down. I have seen many a wounded struggling person on this forum and some just add to it by putting them down and quoting bible verses.
No love or compassion. The opposite of Jesus who came for such people and the same Jesus who rebuked those with no love or compassion.
Why would hurting people who need Jesus come to our church today when all they can see is a church that fights and bites against each other?
When belivers devour and shoot their own why put yourself in the firing line?
If I wasn’t a believer I surely wouldn’t.
I hope your ministry isn't over here yet, and I will pass you my Tylenol if you like...
)i guess if "NOT BY WORKS" can't be understood in all these pages, to say nothing of the clear teaching of the Scriptures, there's not much i can do to effect change.
who'da thunk the Gospel would be so hard to grasp, eh? lol
I do understand they can get a bit long, but if I feel I need to use certian Scruptures to show what I beleive then I can't reduce because I will not be fully illustrating. With that said, I do already try to keep tem shorter, I want to add more information about the original language and other supporting resources. I think we should have more Scripture!
yes, there are pictures. types and shadows. beautiful, and more than enough to teach the people of God about it so they might be saved. if the Old Testament IS the Gospel of Christ, what are all those epistles about? why did God give us more revelation than that?
i'm sure believers love all of God's Word.
ugh, this thread gives me a headache! and a heartache.
farewell, all who depend solely on the righteousness of Christ! He will not fail you!
I understand the frustration but we are all born into a religion that claims God and their God. Jesus was, Stephen was and so are you and I. We all have the same choice. Listen to God or listen to man.