theistic evolution - don't try this at home

[trofimus]

Romans 8:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,[SUP]21 [/SUP]Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.[SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

1 Corinthians 15:[SUP]21 [/SUP]For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Death came into the world because of sin; to believe in the evolution theory is to believe that death was in the world before Adam had sinned. So where is the glory and hope in the Lord when death gets to be abolished at the great white throne judgment if sin was not responsible for bringing death into the world?

Romans 6:[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Revelation 20:[SUP]14 [/SUP]And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

What is the point if sin was not responsible for bringing death into the world in light of the glory of God in Christ Jesus? How can you be assured that death will be done away with when sin is what separates us from God for why death comes?

Death was not in the world before Adam and Eve had sinned. That is how & when the world was cursed with mankind as they were destined to take care of the earth and all the living things in it while living off of herbs as meat for all living things.

Where do you see that death of animals were not before Adam? Or that it is a curse?

 

[tourist]

Nice But I very doubt these two contexts belong together.

I really don't see why not. It has to mean something.

 

[trofimus]

I really don't see why not. It has to mean something.

Well, the only thing they have in common is a word "day". Nothing else... so...

 

[IamWhoIam]

this world is in a cursed state and even then we can see the beauty of God's creation. its amazing. it aint no telling how intelligent and wise God is.
just look at how cool all the things are that He created. u know even the smartest scientist out there cant even produce a single grain of sand. or a drop of water. cant nobody create that. these scientists are playing god today and cant even make a grain of sand, u could put their brains on a jaybird and it'd fly backwards thats how thick some of these scientists are.

i bet when God originally created mosquitos they werent this annoying. i believe in the millennial kingdom the mosquitos wont be biting us no more.

imagine handling a huge crocodile with no fear whatsoever. there aint no telling all the blessings God got in store for us.

Indeed God is the Most Professional of Scientist the most knowledgeable, who could design such a thing as the universe and everything in it,

sometimes people do use science for the wrong reason, nuke bomb is one example.

 

[Enow]

Where do you see that death of animals were not before Adam? Or that it is a curse?

Explain what the verses in the bold is referring to then. I see it as referring to all the living of creation.

Romans 8:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,[SUP]21 [/SUP]Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.[SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

 

[IamWhoIam]

hehe, scienctist with all those degrees, most if not none can not explain what is time and how it formed, it is quite simple indeed though it takes a professional to create it.

 

[Innerfire89]

Can you formulate the question differently? I do not understand it.

I made some typos.

Did Adam have to die on the same day?

In Scripture, where Adam and Eve are cursed, all the curses are physical, but your saying there's one part that's not physical. What I'm saying is that a non physical curse doesn't fit into the list of physical curses.

 

[Innerfire89]

You cant see everything to happen in your short life time. I also did not see the grand canyon to happen.

We know that there's a grand canyon though. But what we don't have is evidence of macro evolution, especially not single celled organisms evolving into something else.

 

[IamWhoIam]

We know that there's a grand canyon though. But what we don't have is evidence of macro evolution, especially not single celled organisms evolving into something else.

of coarse not only bones last for sometime, even bones will turn to dust.

 

[Innerfire89]

of coarse not only bones last for sometime, even bones will turn to dust.

If there's been millions of years than even that dust would turn to dust. Lol.

 

[IamWhoIam]

If there's been millions of years than even that dust would turn to dust. Lol.

Indeed, that is why the earth's crust is thick, and the dirt on top of that is thick as well, lol

 

[trofimus]

Explain what the verses in the bold is referring to then. I see it as referring to all the living of creation.

Romans 8:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,[SUP]21 [/SUP]Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.[SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

I think it means what it says. But where is something about curse?

 

[trofimus]

I made some typos.

Did Adam have to die on the same day?

In Scripture, where Adam and Eve are cursed, all the curses are physical, but your saying there's one part that's not physical. What I'm saying is that a non physical curse doesn't fit into the list of physical curses.

Actually, Adam did die on the same day - spiritually, he sinned, he recognized his nakedness, his eyes were opened, he hid from God.

Its not physical.

 

[tourist]

Well, the only thing they have in common is a word "day". Nothing else... so...

Seeing how God told Adam that on the day he sinned he would die I would say the meaning of that word and what is in common with the verses is critical. Obviously, Adam did not die in the 24 hours after he sinned yet God said that he would die on that day.

 

[trofimus]

But what we don't have is evidence of macro evolution...

An old truth stands - everyone sees only what he wants to see. If you do not want to accept evolution, you will never consider anything an evidence.

If you are opened enough, you can find them, on your own body, for example:

[video=youtube;rFxu7NEoKC8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFxu7NEoKC8[/video]

 

[Enow]

I think it means what it says. But where is something about curse?

By looking at the fall of man in how creation was cursed to punish mankind.

Genesis 3:[SUP]17 [/SUP]And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it:cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;[SUP] 18 [/SUP]Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;[SUP] 19[/SUP]In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

We can see living things die and turn unto dust; we can see how the ground was cursed; we can see per Romans 8:18-21 why all of creation waits for the manifestations of the sons of God to be delivered from the bondage of corruption which is death. So all that is written below pertains to the curse that mankind has brought into the world; the curse of death by sin.

Romans 8:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,[SUP]21 [/SUP]Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.[SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

 

[trofimus]

By looking at the fall of man in how creation was cursed to punish mankind.

Genesis 3:[SUP]17 [/SUP]And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it:cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;[SUP] 18 [/SUP]Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;[SUP] 19[/SUP]In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

We can see living things die and turn unto dust; we can see how the ground was cursed; we can see per Romans 8:18-21 why all of creation waits for the manifestations of the sons of God to be delivered from the bondage of corruption which is death. So all that is written below pertains to the curse that mankind has brought into the world; the curse of death by sin.

Romans 8:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,[SUP]21 [/SUP]Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.[SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

But ground is not animals, birds, fish, universe. Its about field, hard work to get his food.

In the bondage of corruption is everything what is biological/material. All in this universe. Only what is spiritual is uncorruptible, animals were not spirits before Adam´s fall.

Also Adam needed to eat from the tree of life (whatever that was) to live forever. It was not natural for him to be uncorruptible.

 

[Enow]

But ground is not animals, birds, fish, universe. Its about field, hard work to get his food.

In the bondage of corruption is everything what is biological/material. All in this universe. Only what is spiritual is uncorruptible, animals were not spirits before Adam´s fall.

Read Romans 8:19 one more time. Earnest expectation of the creature cannot be referring to the ground. It is that creature as in all living things that awaits deliverance from the bondage of corruption when the children of God are manifested in verses 21 & 22.

Also Adam needed to eat from the tree of life (whatever that was) to live forever. It was not natural for him to be uncorruptible.

The firstfruits of the pre trib rapture will be like the angels that never marry and can never die, however, those left behind as well as new believers will need to take from the tree of life eventually since after the great tribulation, it is the second death that has no power over them; not the first death. The generations coming in the millennium reign will also need to eat from the tree of life of those that remain loyal to the Lord after Satan's last rebellion for a small season after that 1000 year reign.

 

[Enow]

An old truth stands - everyone sees only what he wants to see. If you do not want to accept evolution, you will never consider anything an evidence.

If you are opened enough, you can find them, on your own body, for example:

You mean if you are open enough to disregard what Jesus has said in validating scripture and look to see how liars can present evolution theory into anything they want, and yet somehow the method for macro evolution eludes them??

The problem with the so called vestigial organs presentation by evolutionists is that it is assumed it has no use. Medical science does not know everything about the human body and so looking at something with the evolution theory viewpoint being true, you can see what they want to see. Example; the human tailbone from this link below:

Human tailbone: Evidence of evolution?

The human tailbone is said to be vestigial – that is, it’s an evolutionary leftover proving that we are related to primates. I said that it’s not a “tailbone,” but that it’s the coccyx vertebrae, and that it’s the anchor for 12 muscles that help us go to the bathroom:

So don't follow that white rabbit down the rabbit hole. You choose how you want to look at "evidence". Do you believe Jesus's words or the everchanging words of man?

 

[trofimus]

Read Romans 8:19 one more time. Earnest expectation of the creature cannot be referring to the ground. It is that creature as in all living things that awaits deliverance from the bondage of corruption when the children of God are manifested in verses 21 & 22.

Of course it has nothing to do with the ground and therefore to the Adam´s fall.

The firstfruits of the pre trib rapture will be like the angels that never marry and can never die, however, those left behind as well as new believers will need to take from the tree of life eventually since after the great tribulation, it is the second death that has no power over them; not the first death. The generations coming in the millennium reign will also need to eat from the tree of life of those that remain loyal to the Lord after Satan's last rebellion for a small season after that 1000 year reign.

I think this is all wrong.