theistic evolution - don't try this at home

[Enow]

Its quite exhausting to react to such long posts, I propose to make it shorter... So, lets take one point or one question.

BTW, I was young earth creationist (and charismatic) for about 15 years. I really do not have problem with "never reading the Bible without the evolution idea in mind". Its only my late development (2 years or so). And I do not even say it must be so.

What do you think God meant with the use of "kind" in these references?

Genesis 1:[SUP]24 [/SUP]And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.[SUP] 25 [/SUP]And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. KJV

Genesis 1:[SUP]11 [/SUP]And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:[SUP]20 [/SUP]And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.[SUP]21 [/SUP]And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

 

[trofimus]

You are presuming that evolution is in some way related to science.

I believe that evolution is far more related to the religion of secular humanism than to science; and when members of the so called scientific community promote it, they are motivated by religious rather than scientific concerns.

How else do you account for at least three Nobel lauriets in bio-chemistry, chemistry, and physics being creationists.

Still its more scientific and less religious than young earth creationism, right?

 

[SovereignGrace]

hol van a fürdőszoba? köszönöm

Alright guuys...enough with speaking in tongues.

 

[trofimus]

What do you think God meant with the use of "kind" in these references?

Those three quotes seem to be the same, so I will quote just one example.

---
"And God said, Let the waters bring forth reptiles having life, and winged creatures flying above the earth in the firmament of heaven, and it was so.
And God made great whales, and every living reptile, which the waters brought forth according to their kinds, and every creature that flies with wings according to its kind, and God saw that they were good. And God blessed them saying, Increase and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let the creatures that fly be multiplied on the earth."
---

When I try not to add anything and just read the text, I see that the waters brought forth various [kinds, species of] creatures (evolution, natural laws) and that it was God who made them (theistic).
And after that happened, God blessed them to multiply.

 

[trofimus]

Alright guuys...enough with speaking in tongues.

And now, a real challenge, read this:

"Škrt plch z mlh Brd pln skvrn z mrv prv hrd scvrnkl z brzd skrz trs chrp v krs vrb mls mrch srn čtvrthrst zrn."

(this is actually a meaningful sentence, the longest one without vowels created in my language, google translate has no idea what it means )

 

[Snoozy]

And now, a real challenge, read this:

"Škrt plch z mlh Brd pln skvrn z mrv prv hrd scvrnkl z brzd skrz trs chrp v krs vrb mls mrch srn čtvrthrst zrn."

(this is actually a meaningful sentence, the longest one without vowels created in my language, google translate has no idea what it means )

i translated it, it says:

"hi im trofimus, ive changed my mind i no longer believe in that evil evolution theory, i now believe what the bible clearly says, that God created the earth and everything produces after its own kind. i also believe the noah's flood was global otherwise God would of told him to just move. God bless u all"

thank me later guys

 

[pckts]

i translated it, it says:

"hi im trofimus, ive changed my mind i no longer believe in that evil evolution theory, i now believe what the bible clearly says, that God created the earth and everything produces after its own kind. i also believe the noah's flood was global otherwise God would of told him to just move. God bless u all"

thank me later guys

He thinks he has achieved greater understanding by forcing scripture to be compatible with false science by taking interpretive liberties using his greek background.

If a verse "could" be interpreted differently, he will do it even though the context isn't right, because of course "science" is right, so that means this interpretation must be right as well.

By serving both masters he's lowered his understanding, despite all the effort to do otherwise. Anyone that gives evolution any credence does the same, and we can't reason with them because the authority of man's version of science has "hard evidence" and "facts" that couldn't possibly be a lie meant to deceive.

 

[Snoozy]

He thinks he has achieved greater understanding by forcing scripture to be compatible with false science by taking interpretive liberties using his greek background.

If a verse "could" be interpreted differently, he will do it even though the context isn't right, because of course "science" is right, so that means this interpretation must be right as well.

By serving both masters he's lowered his understanding, despite all the effort to do otherwise. Anyone that gives evolution any credence does the same, and we can't reason with them because the authority of man's version of science has "hard evidence" and "facts" that couldn't possibly be a lie meant to deceive.

amen brother.

the devil is working over time.

i think every christian going thru that indoctrination (its mandatory in many education fields) should watch Dr Kent Hovind's creation seminar. its educational and helpful.
i know lots of folks changed their mind after watching it.

thats a red flag what u said there uce. going back to the greek. u already know u are about to be deceived when they go play with the greek words. be very careful when they do that, atleast check it out urself if its true what they r saying.
another sure sign is when they do what i call version shopping. they quote a different translation for every verse they quote, to make it fit their doctrine.

u are a sound brother pckts. nice to see some folks from ur generation stand up against science falsely so called

 

[trofimus]

i translated it, it says:

"hi im trofimus, ive changed my mind i no longer believe in that evil evolution theory, i now believe what the bible clearly says, that God created the earth and everything produces after its own kind. i also believe the noah's flood was global otherwise God would of told him to just move. God bless u all"

thank me later guys

Can I ask where does the Bible say that everything produces after its own kind?

I do not say yes or no, I just cannot find it. But because you repeat it over and over, you surely know where it is

 

[trofimus]

Uuu, that evil Greek and education... its almost as evil as internet!

BTW what does the Greek have to do with it? Even though I use Septuagint, I do not recall saying something from it so far in this discussion.

 

[Snoozy]

Can I ask where does the Bible say that everything produces after its own kind?

I do not say yes or no, I just cannot find it. But because you repeat it over and over, you surely know where it is

Gen_1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen_1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen_1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Gen_1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

 

[trofimus]

Gen_1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen_1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen_1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Gen_1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

You did an excellent job by underscoring and bolding the word "kind", but my question was where does the Bible say that everything produces after its own kind.

 

[pckts]

Uuu, that evil Greek and education... its almost as evil as internet!

BTW what does the Greek have to do with it? Even though I use Septuagint, I do not recall saying something from it so far in this discussion.

We discussed creation a couple months ago, and how science's version of creation is impossible if you take the KJV genesis creation literally. Your only rebuttal is to bend the greek scripture, even though in context it agrees with the KJV, because it "could" be interpreted differently. So that's what it has to do with it.

I'll give you examples which will demonstrate the point. tell me how plants were created before the sun. Tell me how the earth was created before the sun. Tell me how life started on land as opposed to the primordial soup ocean. All of which are impossible with the theories you subscribe to. Your answer will involve a convoluted bending of greek scripture.

 

[IamWhoIam]

You did an excellent job by underscoring and bolding the word "kind", but my question was where does the Bible say that everything produces after its own kind.

Its apparent the poster thinks nothing changes from kind to kind, doubt even knows the word "kind" means similier not the exact same, Basically small changes over time.

 

[IamWhoIam]

We discussed creation a couple months ago, and how science's version of creation is impossible if you take the KJV genesis creation literally. Your only rebuttal is to bend the greek scripture, even though in context it agrees with the KJV, because it "could" be interpreted differently. So that's what it has to do with it.

I'll give you examples which will demonstrate the point. tell me how plants were created before the sun. Tell me how the earth was created before the sun. Tell me how life started on land as opposed to the primordial soup ocean. All of which are impossible with the theories you subscribe to. Your answer will involve a convoluted bending of greek scripture.

Earth is a general word statement about planets. to speak about one planet is to speak about them all in any Galaxy.

we as people associate this planet as being earth it is our world we live on, but the elements that make up this planet does make up other planets throughout the universe. Those elements can be in any size or shape. there is gas pockets in the earth, there is a gas giant planet mostly of gas.

 

[trofimus]

We discussed creation a couple months ago, and how science's version of creation is impossible if you take the KJV genesis creation literally. Your only rebuttal is to bend the greek scripture, even though in context it agrees with the KJV, because it "could" be interpreted differently. So that's what it has to do with it.

I'll give you examples which will demonstrate the point. tell me how plants were created before the sun. Tell me how the earth was created before the sun. Tell me how life started on land as opposed to the primordial soup ocean. All of which are impossible with the theories you subscribe to. Your answer will involve a convoluted bending of greek scripture.

OK, I see no reason why should I take the medieval English translation and base everything on it and say that all other possibilites based on different (original) languages are from the devil.

English is not even my first language, I have no relations to the KJV, neither theological nor cultural. That translation is irrelevant to me.

 

[pckts]

OK, I see no reason why should I take the medieval English translation and base everything on it and say that all other possibilites based on different (original) languages are from the devil.

English is not even my first language, I have no relations to the KJV, neither theological nor cultural. That translation is irrelevant to me.

Those that translated the English 400 years ago were much better at translating and understanding The Bible than you are. They read the Greek to have the same meaning as they wrote in the KJV. You interpret it the way you do because you want it to fit modern false science. Read in context the Greek scripture describes the same creation the KJV does. Greek isn't as clear (meaning more ambiguous, but not when the context is considered) and allows you to bend the language to fit false science, so this is your preferred translation.

Whenever you give your proofs you say "This word could mean this", meaning there is ambiguity to the interpretation, and rather than pick the correct meaning from the context you pick whatever supports the false science you subscribe to. The Greek may very well be more accurate than the KJV but not in your hands.

 

[trofimus]

Those that translated the English 400 years ago were much better at translating and understanding The Bible than you are. They read the Greek to have the same meaning as they wrote in the KJV. You interpret it the way you do because you want it to fit modern false science. Read in context the Greek scripture describes the same creation the KJV does. Greek isn't as clear (meaning more ambiguous, but not when the context is considered) and allows you to bend the language to fit false science, so this is your preferred translation.

Whenever you give your proofs you say "This word could mean this", meaning there is ambiguity to the interpretation, and rather than pick the correct meaning from the context you pick whatever supports the false science you subscribe to. The Greek may very well be more accurate than the KJV but not in your hands.

You can love the KJV as much as you can, but as I said, the KJV is absolutely irrelevant to me. I am not English/American/Australian/Canadian.

 

[pckts]

You can love the KJV as much as you can, but as I said, the KJV is absolutely irrelevant to me. I am not English/American/Australian/Canadian.

I can tell you're not English because you didn't understand my post.

 

[trofimus]

I can tell you're not English because you didn't understand my post.

It happens sometimes. I will not base my world view on the KJV. Thats my point.