Not By Works

[PHart]

His theology, like one of those cheap boxed coffee flavored milks, rejects the truth that works in a believer determine inheritance not where we will spend eternity.....

Wrong.

"45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”" (Matthew 25:45-46 NASB)

Works most certainly do determine which way you go. Not because they earn salvation, but because Jesus will use our works to determine if we have a saving, loving relationship with Him. Read it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, you can not trust without God's help. That hardly means you don't have to trust.

If your doing ANYTHING to earn or maintain a reward or wage, it is called works. Period.

It would help if you understood the argument. You show that you have not even understood the argument yet. But I am used to this in doctrinal discussions. Part of being indoctrinated is not being able to comprehend what you're coming against. I see this all the time. Particularly in OSAS discussions. You are showing me to be no exception.

I understand the argument my friend, Been here and done this for many years..

Your the one who does not understand eternal security and what it is based on. Your blinded by your hate of calvanism. You have already proved this.

You call me indoctrinated. When it is you my friend. You call anyone who believes in eternal security an osas believer, and equate them all with calvin. This is a gross error on your part.

The sad part is you are just as bad as the fatalistic view

the fatalistic view states God will not allow people to stop believing so they never would. They had no way to believe to begin with, it was Gods sovereign decree

Your view states God does not know flute events, and can give his GIFT of eternal life to people and have to take it back because he could not know they would later repent and turn from God and walk away.

one says free will is removed, the other says Gods omniscience is limited

One says salvation is a gift, the other says salvation can be lost.

it is the old Armenian/calvanist argument that has waged on for years..

so please. Do not tell people they do not understand.

 

[PHart]

Jesus isn't an Indian giver, he doesn't grant us salvation then snatch it away from us when we screw up.

Right. He withdraws his Spirit when we offend him in a willing, contemptuous return to our old lives in unbelief. No longer relying and trusting in Christ is what causes one to forfeit the efficacy of Christ's sacrifice. As it is now, many, many people in the church think they can willingly live in their old lives and still have the Spirit (see this thread: http://christianchat.com/christian-...-tv-shows-right-now-not-poll.html#post3341126), as if grace was a license to indulge sin. Ultimately, if they refuse correction, they will find out this is not true.

 

[JaumeJ]

How can anyone pretend to refute the teaching from God , Himself?

You, and your little group, have taught me much, and I thank you for this. You have taught me mch, but not with mindless and soul-less rants, no, but with attitudes that attmpt to confuse and berate.

I thank you for your teaching because you have demonstrted God uses what ever pleases Him to bring light to those who seek.

May God bless you and your ittle group with true light and understanding. May you love as He loves. All blessings in yur way by Jesus Christ, amen.

If your doing ANYTHING to earn or maintain a reward or wage, it is called works. Period.



I understand the argument my friend, Been here and done this for many years..

Your the one who does not understand eternal security and what it is based on. Your blinded by your hate of calvanism. You have already proved this.

You call me indoctrinated. When it is you my friend. You call anyone who believes in eternal security an osas believer, and equate them all with calvin. This is a gross error on your part.

The sad part is you are just as bad as the fatalistic view

the fatalistic view states God will not allow people to stop believing so they never would. They had no way to believe to begin with, it was Gods sovereign decree

Your view states God does not know flute events, and can give his GIFT of eternal life to people and have to take it back because he could not know they would later repent and turn from God and walk away.

one says free will is removed, the other says Gods omniscience is limited

One says salvation is a gift, the other says salvation can be lost.

it is the old Armenian/calvanist argument that has waged on for years..

so please. Do not tell people they do not understand.

 

[PHart]

If your doing ANYTHING to earn or maintain a reward or wage, it is called works. Period.

That's why you should not do anything TO EARN OR MAINTAIN YOUR SALVATION, lol.

Do things because you believe that God will judge wickedness but saves those who through faith and repentance are forgiven ahead of time of the Judgment. If you think that you're 'doing' is EARNING you the righteousness that is when you are in the wrong.

It seems the whole church has to go back to salvation 101 and get straightened out about this. I blame the leadership for not teaching this to the church and for not leading people to, both, the grace of Christ in the forgiveness of sin, and the grace of Christ in a changed life. Too many in the church came to Christ to get their free lunch pass, that's all--because that's all they were told Christ is for. Then they think they can live in their old lives with impunity. And they slap God in the face by defending their right to do so. They will see what happens to the sanctified person who tramples on the blood of Christ in a contemptuous misuse and abuse of the blood.

 

[JaumeJ]

I am hering your advice, and reflecting on my own faith.

My first feelings after the joy of being convinced by the Holy Spirit of God's love was utter indignation for what many have pepetrated on the fame of Jesus christ. I still have that indignation, but I did get over myself,never Jesus.

God bless you for keeping the faith and sharing the ho-to's for others, for me. I pray Jesus make you eternally strong in this war, ame.

That's why you should not do anything TO EARN OR MAINTAIN YOUR SALVATION, lol.

Do things because you believe that God will judge wickedness but saves those who through faith and repentance are forgiven ahead of time of the Judgment. If you think that you're 'doing' is EARNING you the righteousness that is when you are in the wrong.

It seems the whole church has to go back to salvation 101 and get straightened out about this. I blame the leadership for not teaching this to the church and for not leading people to, both, the grace of Christ in the forgiveness of sin, and the grace of Christ in a changed life. Too many in the church came to Christ to get their free lunch pass, that's all--because that's all they were told Christ is for. Then they think they can live in their old lives with impunity. And they slap God in the face by defending their right to do so. They will see what happens to the sanctified person who tramples on the blood of Christ in a contemptuous misuse and abuse of the blood.

 

[VCO]

Orthodox Study Bible Matthew 16:24-27
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.†
25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.†
26 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?†
27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

By the way thanks for pointing that out.

What they do not realize is that, Eternal Salvation is NOT A REWARD, IT IS A GIFT FROM GOD. The Crowns are Rewards, perhaps the Job we have in Heaven is a reward, perhaps where we stand when we are gathered in front of the Throne to Worship HIM, etc. BUT SALVATION IS A GIFT FROM GOD, NOT A REWARD.

 

[mailmandan]

What they do not realize is that, Eternal Salvation is NOT A REWARD, IT IS A GIFT FROM GOD. The Crowns are Rewards, perhaps the Job we have in Heaven is a reward, perhaps where we stand when we are gathered in front of the Throne to Worship HIM, etc. BUT SALVATION IS A GIFT FROM GOD, NOT A REWARD.

Amen! Ephesians 2:8 (AMPC) - For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not believe one who truly believes can stop believing truly.

They/we can certainly fall away into the troubles of this world, but the foundation that was laid by Jesus cannot and will not crumble.
Outward troubles and failings do NOT mean loss of salvation.

Thats the part they do not understand.

we lose faith in people that fail us, Not in people who always are their when we need them, who always have our backs, and who always do what is right to us.

So why would anyone lose faiht in God? They wont.

Unless they never had TRUE saving faith to begin with. Because in that case, none of the things which keeps a person in faith are present, because they have not yet been saved.

Thats why John said, they were never of us, if they were of us, they would have remained with us,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think you would have to go back a page or two to see where the conversation between eg and I originated...

He said to have mistrust in a circumstance was a different thing than denying Him. But to me, it is the same as denying Him to deny something He has said. However, He doesn't expect us to walk by light He has not yet given us. Which is why I said that to be faithless in a circumstance comes from one of three possibilities.

Eg was the one who used the phrase "not trusting a circumstance." I was using his phrase. Like I said, youd have to go back a page or two to where the chat began.

I do not understand.

So I lack faith God in God. In a certain area.

that means I no longer believe in God at all? (Have deny’d him)

 

[loveme1]

Very sad it is.

People take the focus of God and themselves.
Usually to the detriment of relationship between us and the Father.
And is replaced with sin management and that only.
It also affects our relationship with others.

The Father seeks relationship with us.
As we grow more in that relationship our natural man decreases and our new man aligns with him.

To believe that if we don’t repent and confess then it’s hell for us is nothing but a big chain that shackles and binds.

Yea we do get it wrong and when we do we confess it to God, agree with him that we got it wrong, ask for help and thank him for his forgiveness.

Confession restores the relationship and mainly from our side.
We give up the guilt and stuff that goes with.

Matthew 27:50-51 (NKJV)


50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,

That curtain was torn in two, never to sewed back again.
As a result we come before God through faith.

Love, Grace and liberty in Christ. where we do not want to sin or do wrong not for fear of death but knowing it is not pleasing to Heavenly Father... the New way to live through Faith in Our Lord and Saviour..

We are to Grow in Grace and Knowledge of Christ.. the perfecting of the saints..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He asked for what he lacked and needed. He didn't say, my lack of trust doesn't matter and thats that end of story.

True, But he still had a lack of faith. And God saved his child anyway.

Yet we have people here who say if we have lack of faith God will take back his salvation.

Funny how they liked your post..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What comes first, the chicken or the egg? Well the Chicken of course, because God made it that way.

Salvation comes upon belief and acceptance of the gift of His spirit to live in us.

God made it that way, it will not be unmade by men.

Your true belief and salvation will not end if it was indeed real and true.

You are looking at it from a human failing perspective, believing that what you have seen, in an outward appearance of another human, to be true (people no longer believing).

But that would mean that God is not able to keep us, once He has us, that is impossible.

There are absolutes in this. Once you are saved, it is absolute.

Oh he believes God can keep us.. Just that we can overpower God and walk away. Because although God gave us eternity and all he has, We may change our mind and think we have found something better.

Again. What is his true faith in? I do not see it as being in God or his promises. But in his own ability.

 

[VCO]

Wrong.

"45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”" (Matthew 25:45-46 NASB)

Works most certainly do determine which way you go. Not because they earn salvation, but because Jesus will use our works to determine if we have a saving, loving relationship with Him. Read it.

Do you know how LITTLE you have mentioned a "loving relationship with HIM" on this thread? Why do you suppose that is? WE KNOW, exactly how SELDOM you have mentioned it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not must, will.

and he says we twist.. Sad.. He does the very thing he yells at other people for..

it seems to be a pattern with certain people

 

[Limey410v2]

When an indiviual hardens his heart after learning the good ness of God, this is becoming uncircumcised....

I suppose the spirit is no longer there....... only by true repentence will He return.

This is a hard lesson but a good one to receive, it shows the generosity of the love of God in Jesus christ.

Your loss of salvation theory is based on a supposition? What a fickle God you serve. One that like an unstable wife leaves mad when you don't take out the garbage.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Unless your faith is firm, I cannot make you stand firm. Is 7:9

NKJV. Is 7: 9 The head of Ephraim is Samaria, And the head of Samaria is Remaliah’s son.If you will not believe, Surely you shall not be established.”’

NASB 9 and the head of Ephraim is Samaria and the head of Samaria is the son of Remaliah. If you will not believe, you surely shall not [a]last.”’”

Huge difference between not having faith, and standing in faith

 

[PennEd]

How can anyone pretend to refute the teaching from God , Himself?

You, and your little group, have taught me much, and I thank you for this. You have taught me mch, but not with mindless and soul-less rants, no, but with attitudes that attmpt to confuse and berate.

I thank you for your teaching because you have demonstrted God uses what ever pleases Him to bring light to those who seek.

May God bless you and your ittle group with true light and understanding. May you love as He loves. All blessings in yur way by Jesus Christ, amen.

Cmon. No one is buying the "YOU are a heretic, but thank you for teaching me that MY view is right and yours is evil, but because I want to look holy, I'll add may God bless you" BIT!!

It's shallow and condescending.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

IF YOU GO BACK, YOU WERE NOT SAVED IN THE FIRST PLACE, YOU WERE ONLY TASTING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, and HE WAS NEVER IN YOUR HEART.

Thus you believed in vein, It was not true faith, it was mere belief.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly what are you teaching here? Slander, no. You cannot hear my heart or soul, and certainly do notunderstaqnd what i PASS ON FROM MY SAVIOR, JESUS CHRIST.

I pray God bless you and allwho "follow" you with true understandign and worship0 of teh One Living God..the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I pray you all are in the Kingdom of Yeshua with me IN FULL REPENTENCE OF YOUR OWN MISGIVINGS AND ASSUMPTIONS. Love and peace always in Jesus Christ,amen

I was not teaching anything, I was calling you out for the sin you commited in my thread. (Slander is a sin, in fact, the commandments you love to preach. One says thou shalt not bear false witness, Yet you did that many times in that thread. Yet still refuse to repent. As usual, no repentance from you at all. Yet you call yourself a christian. You should be ashamed.