Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
I would have to disagree with the bolded and agree with the underlined




Every word in the Bible is absolutely important! If that's not what I said forgive me. I'm horribly sick and may not be putting my thoughts together as I'd like.
Father, we ask that You touch this one with Your healing hand through the power of Holy Spirit, and in the name of Your Son Yeshua...Jesus! Now!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
That is too simplified eg. It doesn't take the whole counsel of God into consideration, in my opinion.
He is very patient. He knows how to discipline us. He knows how dull of spirit we are. He takes our infirmities of flesh into account. He repeats things over and over until we remember them for good.

I am thinking about what I'm saying eg. This is one of many areas of which I spoke that seem to contradict each other to earthly minds - if we deny Him he will deny us, if we are faithless He remains faithful.
The simplicity in christ.

dont make things so hard.

I just see it like this,

if denying christ is done when we sin, then the only way we can not deny christ is to be sinless.

if however, denying christ,. And faith are not equal, I can have a lack of faith, and still not deny christ, and just be a child who still lacks some faith.

If denying is faith based, then the verses contradict,

if i deny christ (lack of faith) he will deny me, so if i am faithless, god will not be faithfull.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
There is One Heavenly Father and one way to be forgiven and Reconciled.. to be a child of GOD... yet all the children are different.. One Faith but different members.. different experiences One Lord and Saviour..

We are to come together in unity as Believers.. we know you are either condemned in unbelief or Saved in belief.... which of us here as the right to say otherwise based on our own conversion? We all are proclaiming Belief and all being perfected by Christ.. Love and Truth are not to be compromised.. but it may be that we are receiving increase from GOD in measure.. Grace and Truth is for all that Believe.. think of the Apostles and how they also had matters arise.. yet it is One Faith for all that Believe.
your right, there is one way, there is also only one faith (although that faith varies from greats faith to weak faith)

Your either saved or your not saved, if your saved your secure, if your unsaved, as john said, your bin a state of condemnation already (always have been) because you had no faith.

there is no inbetween,,

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I can tell you what I have discovered concerning God and a saying/puzzle/riddle/parable such as this one. My problem is usually that I am forgetting some aspect or attribute of God as I am puzzling over it.

I see that most people think to much, and end up making God more complicated than he really is.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
That is too simplified eg. It doesn't take the whole counsel of God into consideration, in my opinion.
He is very patient. He knows how to discipline us. He knows how dull of spirit we are. He takes our infirmities of flesh into account. He repeats things over and over until we remember them for good.

I am thinking about what I'm saying eg. This is one of many areas of which I spoke that seem to contradict each other to earthly minds - if we deny Him he will deny us, if we are faithless He remains faithful.
Dull of spirit?

With the baptism of Holy Spirit, how can we be dull of Spirit?

Stunned, deny Him is not in the original manuscript. Him was added. That makes the thought different. There is the beginning of faith. If we deny? There's the choice of the unbeliever, will we say yes to the Lord. Then it's says if we are faithless He remains faithful.

Look at the Greek. Please!

Then concerning mustard seed faith. A small seed, but a bush that cannot be stamped out! Why?

Because of the rooting system. This plant has roots that go down to depths said to be 23 feet. Plus so many tiny tendrils, it's just impossible to root them out.

Its a picture the Lord Himself gave us. Apparently, He knew what would come at us.

This scripture just came to me. The last sentence.

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
4,585
113
No, God is a husband who will no longer stand by and protect a wife who leaves the relationship to take up residence with another man and who refuses to come back. But he'll stick close to and cover the wife who stays home even though she is imperfect in her management of the household, burns the Lasagna, etc.
ONE MORE TIME! They Never were part of the BRIDE, if they leave. That act PROVES they NEVER had a Genuine Relationship with JESUS CHRIST as LORD. You are counting non-Born Again Church goers as part of the BRIDE. THEY ARE NOT AND NEVER WERE! Taking up space on a pew does NOT make you a Born Again Christian, any more than sitting in a garage would make you a Car.


1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
 
Last edited:

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
I am afraid I see you and your little, small, cohort as self appointed inquisitors, and you have decided i SHOULD BE YOUR FAVORITE HERETIC.

Please, if you cannot tolerate what people understand from the Master, do not follow them from post to post.....now for the sake of peace I shall un subscribe to this post used by you little group..
Dear Sir, Eternally-grateful is a kind and loving person. Casting a shadow of wrong doing over E-g and a whole group (small?) of brother's and Sister's in the Lord is both shameful and bearing false witness. I personally have never even met you and then you call us all, "a cohort of self-appointed inquisitors." and you are 73yrs of age.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Titus 3:8, “Trustworthy is the word, and in this regard I wish you to strongly affirm, that those who have believed in YHWH should keep their minds on maintaining right works. This is excellent and profitable to men.”[/FONT]
 
Nov 6, 2017
674
12
0
From a purely technical point of view, you are correct. When we act worldly and unspiritual it is in effect a kind of denying of Christ who lives in us. But the passage is talking about a denying that is different than being unfaithful. How do we know? The outcome of each is different.

The passage says if we are unfaithful, He remains faithful. But if we deny him, he will deny us. So the two have to be two different things.

Peter is a good example. As you have pointed out, he got scared and denied having been with him. He was scared for his own skin, not declaring to the world that Christ is not the Messiah in a willful return to his old sinful life. Christ remained faithful to him during that time.
Matthew 10:32-33
[SUP]32 [/SUP]“Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:27-30, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."[/FONT]
 
Nov 6, 2017
674
12
0
Matthew 25:31-46 (HCSB)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] All the nations
will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
[SUP]33 [/SUP] He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on the left.
[SUP]34 [/SUP] Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

[SUP]35 [/SUP] For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;

[SUP]36 [/SUP] I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you took care of Me; I was in prison and you visited Me.’

[SUP]37 [/SUP] “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP] When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or without clothes and clothe You?
[SUP]39 [/SUP] When did we see You sick, or in prison, and visit You?’

[SUP]40 [/SUP] “And the King will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’
[SUP]41 [/SUP] Then He will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!

[SUP]42 [/SUP] For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink;

[SUP]43 [/SUP] I was a stranger and you didn’t take Me in; I was naked and you didn’t clothe Me, sick and in prison and you didn’t take care of Me.’

[SUP]44 [/SUP] “Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?’

[SUP]45 [/SUP] “Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.’

[SUP]46 [/SUP] “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”




NO, you have to be crazy to think the DEEDS had any part is SAVING THEM. The deeds they did, were NOT done for the motive "to earn Salvation", they did not even know what they did would be perceived by Jesus Christ as deeds done unto HIM.

THEY DID THE DEEDS because the HOLY SPIRIT HAD TRULY ENTERED THEIR HEART, BIRTHING THEIR HUMAN SPIRIT INTO ETERNAL LIFE, and POURING GOD'S LOVE IN THAT NEW LIVING SPIRIT. BECAUSE OF GOD'S LOVE BEING IN THEIR SPIRIT(Rom. 5:5), they manifested GOD's LOVE to their fellow man. THE DEEDS WERE NOT DONE TO GAIN ANYTHING IN RETURN. THEY DID THE DEEDS BECAUSE THEY TRULY WERE SAVED - PAST TENSE.

Please repent, and COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, and RECEIVE HIM AS LORD, and GOD's LOVE will be poured into you.
So when all else fails we question the salvation of another. :confused:
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
4,585
113
So when all else fails we question the salvation of another. :confused:
Matthew 7:13-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
24,999
13,008
113
58
Matthew 10:32-33
[SUP]32 [/SUP]“Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
In context, this passage relates to the fact that the Pharisees had continuously denied Jesus while the disciples continued to speak about Him in every city they visited. We might paraphrase His teaching this way: "Whoever confesses me before men (such as you disciples), I will confess him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men (like the Pharisees), I will deny him before my Father in heaven.

Those who confess Jesus are those who recognize Him as being the true Messiah and trust in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Those who deny Jesus (and those who give mere lip service confession) but refuse to trust in Him alone for salvation place themselves beyond any possibility of salvation, since salvation is found only in Him (John 3:15,16,18; 10:9; 14:6).

The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Jesus three times (Luke 22:56-62) but is referring to life in its entirety. Hence, the person who throughout his life denies Christ (as was typically the case with the Pharisess and includes unbelievers who may even give mere "lip service confession" - Matthew 7:21-23, but lack saving faith in Christ) will be denied by Christ before the Father.
 
Nov 6, 2017
674
12
0
He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.I know that there is nothing better for them than to rejoice and to do good in one’s lifetime; moreover, that every man who eats and drinks sees good in all his labor—it is the gift of God.

AMEN bro.....------->I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him
That which is has been already and that which will be has already been, for God seeks what has passed by. Furthermore, I have seen under the sun that in the place of justice there is wickedness and in the place of righteousness there is wickedness. I said to myself, “God will judge both the righteous man and the wicked man,” for a time for every matter and for every deed is there. I said to myself concerning the sons of men, “God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts.” For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust. Who knows that the breath of man ascends upward and the breath of the beast descends downward to the earth? I have seen that nothing is better than that man should be happy in his activities, for that is his lot. For who will bring him to see what will occur after him?


I neither agree or disagree or take sides with this fight, but for the edification of readers, it is important that we show them all the verses that go with the one.
 
Nov 6, 2017
674
12
0
IF YOU GO BACK, YOU WERE NOT SAVED IN THE FIRST PLACE, YOU WERE ONLY TASTING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, and HE WAS NEVER IN YOUR HEART.
I thought you guys said the Holy Spirit does not give part of himself, so how come you state it now?
 
Nov 6, 2017
674
12
0
Matthew 7:13-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

Could you tell me how you discern fruit on the internet?