Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
1,846
478
83
Nothing you say amounts to a hill of beans...why? Because no one has even come close to saying the rigmarole you push and or ascribe to us....and your sinless perfectionist working for attitude that rejects all the verses ands scripture that states none are without sin until the body is fully redeemed does not allow you to see the truth.....nor do you comprehend that we still pack around a fallen, wicked body of sin that is not subject unto the law of God neither indeed can be....there is a process of sanctification that is a DAILY process with successes and failures and until you open your eyes to this you will continue to miss the ark, ascribe things to us that is not stated or implied and continue to post irrelevant points based upon faulty foundations.....direct your "I am sinless" drivel someplace else.......this thread is about salvation by grace through faith without works helping one get saved, stay saved or keep salvation............

start your own "I AM SINLESS" thread so you can boast of how good you are like the Pharisee of old...../

Exactly Decon, this is a very angry person and needs to start his own "are you sinless", thread. But do you think someone who is so full of hate and condemnation for everyone will every stop these insulting post's, not any time soon.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
23,391
1,335
113
Sides are for chicken and mashed taters and gravy.
I thought taters and gravy WAS a side :D

The ongoing nature of theological discussion being what it is, such a hot topic issue in people's lives whether they are born again, religious but lost, or just simply lost, certainly has helped me to understand some of the issues better. For instance, as a fairly new Christian who found herself testifying to non believers online, I was also exposed to questions of whether or not Jesus was God, and when I examined myself, I realized I had not decided one way or the other because I did not know at first whether He was or whether He was not. When the issue of Calvinism and Arminianism came up, I had to research those, too, because I did not know what they were, what lines of thought they followed, the doctrines they promoted. I found elements of truth in both, but not the whole truth in either. Some things, we need to take sides on. Others, not so much :)
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
971
113
Here is how the verse in my translation fit in my mind.
If you will not stand firm, I cannot make you stand firm.
If you won't believe me about earthly things, how can I tell you about heavenly things?
He who is faithful with a little will be given more.
No offence, but we cannot take a verse of scripture and base our belief upon how it fits our mind....there is an absolute truth and context set forth by that verse and our stance must be based upon that context and absolute truth it presents.....

There are ways that seem right unto men, but the end thereof are the ways of death....<---A prime example right here.....in the mind of the Pharisee the way that seemed right, that they espoused, pushed, indoctrinated those around them with and encompassed land ad sea with to make one convert = one that was two fold the child of hell......and the Pharisee who though the was right in his mind was blind and leading the blind into the ditch.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
971
113
I hear Jesus christ, Yeshua, in many people, family in the forums, but for thetime beign I do not recognize my Master, Jesus christ, in your posts.

I do , however, detect an attempt to control the thinking of those already saved by the Blood of the Lamb of God. Jesus Christ's Blood keeps me from any lasting harm, for He is my Savior, the only Savior of man. Blessed be Jesus Christ, amen
This thread is about salvation by grace dia faith without works added to gain, keep, facilitate or maintain salvation.....if you have an issue with someone take it back to a different thread or PM them....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
971
113
so the person who says that " real , understanding Christians who know Christ do not need to read the letters of Paul, they were only for churches who had problems" is accusing e.g. of trying to control what others think.

I think trying to trick people into not reading over half the N.T., mainly the parts about not being under the law, is attempting to control what others think, but that's just me............
BOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMM <-----bunker buster.........^^^^^^^
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
971
113
Matthew 10:32-33
[SUP]32 [/SUP]“Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
And the word deny in this context means to reject the work and saving faith of Christ........and yes it is that simple......It makes me think of Thomas Paine who was so anti-Christ that he had two witnesses by his bed side to prove that he had went to the grave denying Christ as the savior of men and his ability to save anyone....the context is clear...

CONFESS me before men I.E> acknowledge me in saving faith

Deny me before men I.E> reject Jesus as your savior

It is not talking about a believer having a moment or even a believer that loses his faith and walks away in sin (if we believe not, he remains faithful because he cannot deny himself) it is speaking of those who totally reject the saving faith of JESUS.....

arneomai: to deny, say noOriginal Word: ἀρνέομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: arneomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-neh'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I deny, repudiate
Definition: (a) I deny (a statement), (b) I repudiate (a person, or belief

arnéomai – properly, deny (refuse); hence, contradict, refuse to affirm or to confess (identify with); disown (repudiate
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
1,846
478
83
Did someone just make fire on the beach?

[video=youtube;cPN3Fv2aJhE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPN3Fv2aJhE&amp;index=5&amp;list=PLa8tle9ws9VJD-GUaWvV0DeLZ3-LURt62[/video]
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
971
113
So when all else fails we question the salvation of another. :confused:
Do you believe we can judge a gospel and if it is of God or not? The answer is sure we can...and there is but ONE correct message....not two, three or even fifty.....

If man "a" believes that he is saved by something other than what the bible teaches is the correct way....I can rightfully assume that has is probably not saved.....this is biblical and not contrary to the truth.......
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
971
113
He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.I know that there is nothing better for them than to rejoice and to do good in one’s lifetime; moreover, that every man who eats and drinks sees good in all his labor—it is the gift of God.



That which is has been already and that which will be has already been, for God seeks what has passed by. Furthermore, I have seen under the sun that in the place of justice there is wickedness and in the place of righteousness there is wickedness. I said to myself, “God will judge both the righteous man and the wicked man,” for a time for every matter and for every deed is there. I said to myself concerning the sons of men, “God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts.” For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust. Who knows that the breath of man ascends upward and the breath of the beast descends downward to the earth? I have seen that nothing is better than that man should be happy in his activities, for that is his lot. For who will bring him to see what will occur after him?


I neither agree or disagree or take sides with this fight, but for the edification of readers, it is important that we show them all the verses that go with the one.
Amen....and I am fairly confident that the word EVERYTHING means EVERYTHING....including saving, sealing, justifying and sanctifying someone by faith thru grace as a gift.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
971
113
I thought you guys said the Holy Spirit does not give part of himself, so how come you state it now?
A ? and maybe this will help.....If lost man "a" goes to church with Billy Bob who is saved and sits though a wonderful, spirit filled service, gets to feel the love of the congregation, eats pot luck with them and experiences their fellowship and while there gets the opportunity to see one saved and or immersed....is this not a taste of the Spirit in some form or fashion?

And before you shoot this down like a Japanese Zero over Midway......Most of us personally have seen this happen and hear the responses of the men who were lost and their views of the service and how it made them feel and how they could feel the love and the difference.......just saying.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
23,391
1,335
113
so the person who says that " real , understanding Christians who know Christ do not need to read the letters of Paul, they were only for churches who had problems" is accusing e.g. of trying to control what others think.

I think trying to trick people into not reading over half the N.T., mainly the parts about not being under the law, is attempting to control what others think, but that's just me............
Even the disciples who had walked and talked with Christ for three years were in need of Paul's understanding :)
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
971
113
I thought taters and gravy WAS a side :D

The ongoing nature of theological discussion being what it is, such a hot topic issue in people's lives whether they are born again, religious but lost, or just simply lost, certainly has helped me to understand some of the issues better. For instance, as a fairly new Christian who found herself testifying to non believers online, I was also exposed to questions of whether or not Jesus was God, and when I examined myself, I realized I had not decided one way or the other because I did not know at first whether He was or whether He was not. When the issue of Calvinism and Arminianism came up, I had to research those, too, because I did not know what they were, what lines of thought they followed, the doctrines they promoted. I found elements of truth in both, but not the whole truth in either. Some things, we need to take sides on. Others, not so much :)
And sometimes when we refuse to take a side we do by default.....to not oppose that which is false is to encourage it and by default stand with it.......the bible proves this point on more than one occasion....Pilate being one such point...he tried to get Jesus out of it, did not want to do it and even washed his hands in front of the people and stated that JESUS was not worthy of death....yet later the bible states clearly that Pilate was just as guilty......there are other proofs as well.....
 
P

PHart

Guest
More misguided doctrine of the church. The church doesn't seem to know how the believer does things through the Holy Spirit. They think walking by the Spirit is you check out while God moves your body in the way it must move. And if it doesn't work that way then you're doing it which means you're trying to earn your salvation. And so they justify their works-less, unfruitful lives by heaping the responsibility onto God that way and they just accept that God hasn't done that in them yet. Hideous doctrine.

Stones, do you know what 'self control' means?
 
Nov 12, 2015
8,944
700
113
Thank you for answering, and my apologies for my tardy reply. I went out last night to my community group Bible study. We had pot luck also [I took lasagna :D]), and then lost my internet. I just got back from Best Buy where they fixed my ethernet by uninstalling and the re-installing it; it had been acting up for the last few days, and messing with my Bluetooth as well :p I hope that is the end of that! It is true I do not read all the posts in this thread, as it is pretty fast moving, and I am not here as often as some others. So thanks again for explaining :)
Yes but was the lasagna sealed...?
 
P

PHart

Guest
ONE MORE TIME! They Never were part of the BRIDE, if they leave. That act PROVES they NEVER had a Genuine Relationship with JESUS CHRIST as LORD. You are counting non-Born Again Church goers as part of the BRIDE. THEY ARE NOT AND NEVER WERE! Taking up space on a pew does NOT make you a Born Again Christian, any more than sitting in a garage would make you a Car.
You just haven't known any true believers who left the faith. I do.



1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
Don't leave off vs. 24-26 where John then tells the believers to not leave:

"24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

25This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
26These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you."
(1 John 2:24-26 NASB)
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
377
24
18
More misguided doctrine of the church. The church doesn't seem to know how the believer does things through the Holy Spirit. They think walking by the Spirit is you check out while God moves your body in the way it must move. And if it doesn't work that way then you're doing it which means you're trying to earn your salvation. And so they justify their works-less, unfruitful lives by heaping the responsibility onto God that way and they just accept that God hasn't done that in them yet. Hideous doctrine.

Stones, do you know what 'self control' means?
Isn't it the other way around? Doesn't the Holy Spirit do things through us? His work through us?
It is the Holy Spirit that works in and through us. I'm not sure that we do things through the Holy Spirit. All of the power is His. I could be wrong.
 
Nov 12, 2015
8,944
700
113
More misguided doctrine of the church. The church doesn't seem to know how the believer does things through the Holy Spirit. They think walking by the Spirit is you check out while God moves your body in the way it must move. And if it doesn't work that way then you're doing it which means you're trying to earn your salvation. And so they justify their works-less, unfruitful lives by heaping the responsibility onto God that way and they just accept that God hasn't done that in them yet. Hideous doctrine.

Stones, do you know what 'self control' means?
I understand what stones is saying with that sentence.
I might not understand what you are saying though. :)
The only way I have ever won any gains in self control was by God showing me my lack and then me praying for what I lacked. The harder I tried on my own the worse it got.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
23,391
1,335
113
Yes but was the lasagna sealed...?
It starts out frozen solid, with a clear covering seal that you are instructed to lift a corner of (I always loosen two corners) in order that the steam may escape during the baking process. Otherwise, it might explode LOL