Do you know why you are a protestant???

[Endoscopy]

I used to think more along the lines of the Catholic church only being the beast, but I'm more thinking along the grace and truth ministries opinion as of late.

That it is a "self,self,self" system that started probably at the first city of Babylon. A city (own law etc), a non Christian submission to the will of God. Worth a look on YouTube etc.

I also thought along those lines until I had a conversation with a Catholic priest. They adhere to the Apostles Creed but do not acknowledge it. That puzzles me. I have many disagreements with many of their distinctives but not the core beliefs. A TV show that caused me to examine it was Blue Bloods. The family is Catholic and says very Christian beliefs.

 

[LittleGirl]

This is so laughable. Take one look at the VOLUMES of literature the Catholic church has developed over the years to serve as a "guide" to thinking and acting. It is staggering how much there is. It makes the measly 613 laws the Jews have look like simply an introduction to indoctrination, by comparison.

Willie
The volumes you speak of are not regarding what a Catholic person is supposed to adhere to.
I do understand though what you're talking about.
What Catholics need to know is in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. That pertains to Catholicocity.
Everything else they need to know is in the bible.
Some priests think the bible comes first (most)
Some think the CCC should be studied first.
However, the CCC IS taken directly from scripture (some paragraphs are taken from those volumes you speak of)

 

[LittleGirl]

I also thought along those lines until I had a conversation with a Catholic priest. They adhere to the Apostles Creed but do not acknowledge it. That puzzles me. I have many disagreements with many of their distinctives but not the core beliefs. A TV show that caused me to examine it was Blue Bloods. The family is Catholic and says very Christian beliefs.

The Creed is believed by ALL Christians.
It's the basic requirements for being called a Christian.

How could one adhere to something but not acknowledge it?
Makes no sense.

 

[Nehemiah6]

However, the CCC IS taken directly from scripture (some paragraphs are taken from those volumes you speak of)

The truth is that Scripture is MISINTERPRETED in the CCC while Tradition is elevated to the level of Scripture. So taking Scripture and misinterpreting it is about the same as simply ignoring it.

Take the example of water baptism. The CCC teaches that it is necessary for salvation, But the Bible teaches that it is necessary for those who are ALREADY SAVED and have received the gift of the Holy Ghost. See Acts 10.

One could list error after error in the CCC, but chances are no Roman Catholic will accept the fact that it is chock full of errors. So the RCC continues to deceive its adherents on critical spiritual issues.

 

[LittleGirl]

The truth is that Scripture is MISINTERPRETED in the CCC while Tradition is elevated to the level of Scripture. So taking Scripture and misinterpreting it is about the same as simply ignoring it.

Take the example of water baptism. The CCC teaches that it is necessary for salvation, But the Bible teaches that it is necessary for those who are ALREADY SAVED and have received the gift of the Holy Ghost. See Acts 10.

One could list error after error in the CCC, but chances are no Roman Catholic will accept the fact that it is chock full of errors. So the RCC continues to deceive its adherents on critical spiritual issues.

Jesus said that we are to be born from above and that we are to be baptized and that we are to know all that He taught.
Mathew 28:19-20

We can debate whether baptism is necessary for salvation. What I know for sure is that Jesus said to do this, and we should do what He commanded.

You can post the paragraph that says baptism is necessary for salvation. It would be nice if you did.
What I can tell you for sure is that the CC teaches that even though an infant is baptized, that infant, when at an age of accountability, must accept his baptism and believe in Jesus as his savior, or the baptism by itself is of no value.

I myself believe that one must repent, believe, be baptized. In that order.

 

[NayborBear]

Just a W.hite A.nglo-S.axon, who chooses to be P.rotestant!

Uh? Because I'm not a muslim, catholic, hindu, jew, or wiccan?

 

[Nehemiah6]

You can post the paragraph that says baptism is necessary for salvation. It would be nice if you did.

FROM THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua), and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

 

[RexCA]

The willful ignorance of what the Catholic Church is and what she actually teaches is laughable note that I say willful because the amount of ignorance many on this thread carry is intentional due to the fact that many have commented and or corrected certain assumptions regarding Catholicism some of whom appear to not even be Catholics themselves while others such as myself do happen to be Catholic. Yet people try to argue that they are correct and that the Catholic is wrong because the Catholic "must be lying to defend her supposed satanic and idolatrous doctrines". Yes because this is such a realistic scenario lol

 

[RexCA]

and the church does affirm that baptism is needed for salvation because it came from the mouth of Christ himself and is the historical understanding of what to be "born again" means even people such as Luther and Calvin affirmed this. Ideologies such as "born again of the spirit" in a sense that rejects baptism came and regarding baptism as a mere symbol came about in the late 1700s as part of the "great awakening" movement that took place in the American Colonies as well as the early Methodist movement that was taking place in Britain. The origins of such ideas is not biblical rather comes from men such as George Whitefield and John Wesley.

 

[Endoscopy]

The Creed is believed by ALL Christians.
It's the basic requirements for being called a Christian.

How could one adhere to something but not acknowledge it?
Makes no sense.

For some reason the RCC doesn't want it to be more than good teaching. Like I stated it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Endoscopy]

and the church does affirm that baptism is needed for salvation because it came from the mouth of Christ himself and is the historical understanding of what to be "born again" means even people such as Luther and Calvin affirmed this. Ideologies such as "born again of the spirit" in a sense that rejects baptism came and regarding baptism as a mere symbol came about in the late 1700s as part of the "great awakening" movement that took place in the American Colonies as well as the early Methodist movement that was taking place in Britain. The origins of such ideas is not biblical rather comes from men such as George Whitefield and John Wesley.

The question is what happens to a person who accepts Jesus and is dies before being baptized? This is a dividing issue. Are they lost as some denominations believe or are they saved as others believe? Have fun with this one. I go with them being saved.

 

[preacher4truth]

and the church does affirm that baptism is needed for salvation because it came from the mouth of Christ himself and is the historical understanding of what to be "born again" means even people such as Luther and Calvin affirmed this. Ideologies such as "born again of the spirit" in a sense that rejects baptism came and regarding baptism as a mere symbol came about in the late 1700s as part of the "great awakening" movement that took place in the American Colonies as well as the early Methodist movement that was taking place in Britain. The origins of such ideas is not biblical rather comes from men such as George Whitefield and John Wesley.

Oh, so something came from the mouth of Jesus, so it is blessed as true by a RC, yet he has said other things which the RCC goes against?

How convenient, right?

Whitefield didn't teach the lie you lay upon him. There was no teaching being "born of the Spirit and rejecting baptism" at the same time. Being born of the Spirit is biblical. Baptism is also a figure as per Scripture. By you adding the word "mere" to it is to make more of this than what is there, purposefully, so it is pretense and disingenuous on your part.

 

[Dai3234]

Oh, so something came from the mouth of Jesus, so it is blessed as true by a RC, yet he has said other things which the RCC goes against?

How convenient, right?

Whitefield didn't teach the lie you lay upon him. There was no teaching being "born of the Spirit and rejecting baptism" at the same time. Being born of the Spirit is biblical. Baptism is also a figure as per Scripture. By you adding the word "mere" to it is to make more of this than what is there, purposefully, so it is pretense and disingenuous on your part.

If you watch what grace & truth ministries YouTube shows in the Greek about baptism on the "who are we to forbid water" verse, it's said to mean the opposite. There aren't enough lessons for learning this stuff in my opinion, and many Christians are oblivious of the need or are lazy or think low of themselves.

 

[preacher4truth]

If you watch what grace & truth ministries YouTube shows in the Greek about baptism on the "who are we to forbid water" verse, it's said to mean the opposite. There aren't enough lessons for learning this stuff in my opinion, and many Christians are oblivious of the need or are lazy or think low of themselves.

I'm not a disciple of grace and truth ministries. I'm also not referring to that text in Acts, but to "the like figure".

Why take a swing at other Christians and call them lazy and that they think low of themselves?

 

[Dai3234]

I'm not a disciple of grace and truth ministries. I'm also not referring to that text in Acts, but to "the like figure".

Why take a swing at other Christians and call them lazy and that they think low of themselves?

Sorry, just currently dissapear in hardly any churches staying "alive" around my area because it seems people are just too nervous or feel out of place. In the UK we don't really have street preachers, or street evangelists. Just a few quiet leaflet givers or a preacher that gets arrested etc.

But they still preach to "check ourselves". No one wants to rock the boat so we all just mull along quietly whilst the churches, seem to die.

 

[breno785au]

Sorry, just currently dissapear in hardly any churches staying "alive" around my area because it seems people are just too nervous or feel out of place. In the UK we don't really have street preachers, or street evangelists. Just a few quiet leaflet givers or a preacher that gets arrested etc.

But they still preach to "check ourselves". No one wants to rock the boat so we all just mull along quietly whilst the churches, seem to die.

Hmm, interesting. Perhaps they need to change how they do things on the street? Things like get up close and personal with people rather than preaching from a distance. Listen to holy spirits guidance, and pray for those who need healing.

I personally never liked handing out obscure pieces of paper when I was out on the streets.

 

[1ofthem]

Because I read the Bible...

 

[RexCA]

The question is what happens to a person who accepts Jesus and is dies before being baptized? This is a dividing issue. Are they lost as some denominations believe or are they saved as others believe? Have fun with this one. I go with them being saved.

This question has been affirmed for quite some time now in Catholic doctrine the concept of Limbo was never doctrine let's keep that in mind but there was a time when it was a really popular private belief. Now popes within the last 400 years or so have mostly shifted away from this view and I and most Catholics would tend to agree.

The teaching as to what happens when someone who has Christian faith and does good deeds dies without the grace of the sacraments(as without baptism one cannot receive any other sacraments) what will happen well there are 2 possible scenarios, did the "faithful Christian" willfully reject baptism as unneeded and pointless if he did this by his own will this Christian would not be saved as he would have been knowingly rejected the opportunity to be born again and he would also knowingly be rejecting God's grace. Now for the more relevant scenario that I think everyone is trying to get at what about the man who has Christian faith who did good but did not reject the sacraments but just happened to never receive them because he did not fully understand their merit or he may have never gotten the opportunity to be baptized, the Catholic teaching is that we entrust them to God's grace and that they should be saved due to baptism of desire. Essentially the sacraments are God's way of imputing grace on the faithful however God is not held only to these sacraments if a good man died but did everything to the best of his knowledge(lacked for knowledge of the truth of Christianity or the opportunity to be baptized) he will not be damned. God is a merciful God.

 

[RexCA]

Oh, so something came from the mouth of Jesus, so it is blessed as true by a RC, yet he has said other things which the RCC goes against?

How convenient, right?

Whitefield didn't teach the lie you lay upon him. There was no teaching being "born of the Spirit and rejecting baptism" at the same time. Being born of the Spirit is biblical. Baptism is also a figure as per Scripture. By you adding the word "mere" to it is to make more of this than what is there, purposefully, so it is pretense and disingenuous on your part.

I suggest you read the whole statement I said I never said Whitefield taught that we are born again through baptism in fact I said the exact opposite I said the teaching of "spiritual rebirth" meaning that to be born again is a matter of mere conversion of faith and no action needs to take place does no originate in Christ rather it originates in men such as Whitefield and Wesley

 

[oldethennew]

we, hub and myself, claim NO NAMES, we only desire to be what our Holy Saviour,
presented to His Prophets, ' a Christian', 'a child of God, a servant, a slave to our Master/Creator'...