Sabbath

Hizikyah · Nov 18, 2017

To shorten my post for those who will not read it because it is long;

2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, “Clear evidence of the righteous judgment of יהוה, in order for you to be counted worthy of the reign of יהוה, for which you also suffer, since יהוה shall rightly repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflicted rest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know יהוה, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master יהושע Messiah, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Master and from the esteem of His strength, when He comes to be esteemed in His set-apart ones and to be admired among all those who believe in that Day, because our witness to you was believed.”

Hizikyah · Nov 18, 2017

Does it not seem like during every Sabbath is when people fight against what is written about the Sabbath...

I know the debate has been going on for years every day, but it seems to intensify during the actual Sabbath...

Studyman · Nov 18, 2017

Snoozy said:

Jesus said the Pharisees were "teaching for doctrines the Commandments of men" He said they were "Transgressing the commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions. He said to them, "Moses gave you the law, yet none of you keep the law".

So the premise of your question is flawed. If you are calling "Judaism" commandments and doctrines of man that the Pharisees were rejected for doing, then no, we shouldn't transgress the commandments of God by our own doctrines and traditions.

But if you are calling "Judaism" the laws and Commandments Jesus walked in and observed, that Abraham obeyed, then I would say yes. As it is written:

1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

I hope that answers your question.

Endoscopy · Nov 18, 2017

Snoozy said:

Mathew 5:17 to 20 NIV

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

phil36 · Nov 18, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Hi Hizikyah,

I still don't see how you have proved that we are under the Mosaic Sabbath keeping commandment and its demands, considering Christians are not in the Old Covenant but the New. Already---but not yet.

And Moses summoned all Israel and said to them, “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the rules that I speak in your hearing today, and you shall learn them and be careful to do them.2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.3 Not with our fathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive today.4 The Lord spoke with you face to face at the mountain, out of the midst of the fire,5 while I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord. For you were afraid because of the fire, and you did not go up into the mountain.

“‘Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. 13 For six days you shall labour and do all your work,14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant, or your ox or your donkey or any of your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15 You shall remember that you were a slave[c] in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day

Heb 10:1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.

Heb 10:9 - then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second.10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10:12 - But when Christ[b]had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God

Heb 4 ff

Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. 2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.[a] 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,
“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest’”,

although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” 5 And again in this passage he said,
“They shall not enter my rest.”

6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7 again he appoints a certain day, “Today”, saying through David so long afterwards, in the words already quoted,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God[b] would not have spoken of another day later on. 9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Snoozy · Nov 18, 2017

ok so u guys teach circumcision then? Jesus did it. Acts 15:1 tells us no.
u wear fringes on ur clothing?

this is what happens when u dont rightly divide the word of truth. u come up with all kinds of messed up doctrines. u can study the bible forever and still be a novice if u dont rightly divide it.

JaumeJ · Nov 18, 2017

Family in God, it is well.......good night from over here..and to all all around. Blesings always in Jesus Christ..

Endoscopy · Nov 18, 2017

JaumeJ said:

????
It's 12:45 in Florida and you say good night.

Studyman · Nov 18, 2017

=phil36;3351183]Hi Studyman,

That is an interesting quote. Where do you get your preaching that the Sabbath of God is not a particular day? I mean the same Moses that preached we are to love our neighbor as our self, also preached God's Sabbath is a particular day.

Jesus said,

Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Didn't Jesus create the Sabbath before He became a man? And didn't He say it was created for us? Didn't Jesus observe His own Sabbath on the day it was created for? How can I listen to your preaching, when it goes completely against the teachings of Moses, Jesus, all His Prophets.

It's about what the Bible teaches to me. I know it is Mainstream Tradition to reject God's Sabbath in favor of their own version of this day. Didn't the Pharisees create their own Sabbath as well. A Sabbath where we couldn't help a fallen brother or walk in fellowship and pick a raspberry to eat.

Anyway, it is because of God's Word that I believe in His teaching. If man's tradition goes against His teaching, I'm going to stick to the Word.

sparkman · Nov 18, 2017

Snoozy said:

Yeah, you're right. As a former Sabbathkeeper, I realize that the hermeneutics employed by them are all messed up. They also attempt to guilt the person into accepting the Sabbath.

"You don't love God if you don't keep the commandments, and the Sabbath is included in the commandments".

They ignore the fact that Christians believe in obedience to the commandments that apply to THEM and not ancient Israel. It is THEIR presupposition that COMMANDMENTS = TEN COMMANDMENTS, and we don't accept that presupposition...although this works with some Christians because they don't understand that the Mosaic Covenant was one unified Law, and can't be parsed out into Ten Commandments vs. Book of the Covenant like the SDAs and some Christian groups try to do.

Additionally, they will claim that we are the ones twisting Paul's writings to our own destruction, rather than them. That's a common tactic. They are the ignorant and unstable ones..not evangelical Christians.

I posted a paper by a Messianic Jew on Hebrew Roots Movement on a different thread that examines the claim that one becomes true Israel by observing Torah. Some Hebrew Roots nuts even claim that Gentiles are, in fact, the lost Ten Tribes and therefore obligated to observe all of Torah due to this..they are descendants of Abraham.

Incidentally, I find it comical that one Hebrew Roots guy claims that he fights with his brother because his brother is from a warlike tribe of ancient Israel, Gad I think...I am not sure if they have different parents but if they have the same parents, that would be amusing because he claims he is from Dan, I believe.

As an Armstrongite, I believed I was from Israel, too, although I didn't try to specify the tribe. Pastors claimed they were likely from the tribe of Levi.

Logic is lost on some people

God must open their heart to see that their war against evangelical Christianity is a result of their indoctrination, and they are not the valiant defenders of "the Truth" like their organizations claim. Don Quixote and the windmills come to mind...bumbling fools with bad eyesight who can't tell the difference between evil giants and windmills.

Endoscopy · Nov 18, 2017

Snoozy said:

Fringes on western wear came about as the explorers and those outdoors most of the time had them to help the rain fall off the leather garments. They stayed as decoration after the need passed.

phil36 · Nov 18, 2017

Studyman said:

Oh now Studyman,

The church does not reject the day of rest! where do you get that idea from. We reject the idea that we are under the Commands and demands of the Mosaic covenant and that includes the command and demand to observe the Mosaic Sabbath and all that entails.

We all have a day of rest or at least we should for God had a day of rest and said it was good. We find that rest now in Christ, although Already---but not yet! In Fact the first Christians used Sunday as their day of rest in remembrance of the resurrection. And in anticipation of our final eternal rest.

Why would you put yourself back under the law, when Christ bought your freedom.

As regards to moral commands of course christians take note and heed them, for it is the Holy Spirit that works in us to do that which is good.

For the fruit of the Spirit is................. ???? Against such things there ARE no law.

phil36 · Nov 18, 2017

sparkman said:

Yeah, you're right. As a former Sabbathkeeper, I realize that the hermeneutics employed by them are all messed up. They also attempt to guilt the person into accepting the Sabbath.

"You don't love God if you don't keep the commandments, and the Sabbath is included in the commandments".

They ignore the fact that Christians believe in obedience to the commandments that apply to THEM and not ancient Israel. It is THEIR presupposition that COMMANDMENTS = TEN COMMANDMENTS, and we don't accept that presupposition...although this works with some Christians because they don't understand that the Mosaic Covenant was one unified Law, and can't be parsed out into Ten Commandments vs. Book of the Covenant like the SDAs and some Christian groups try to do.

Additionally, they will claim that we are the ones twisting Paul's writings to our own destruction, rather than them. That's a common tactic. They are the ignorant and unstable ones..not evangelical Christians.

I posted a paper by a Messianic Jew on Hebrew Roots Movement on a different thread that examines the claim that one becomes true Israel by observing Torah. Some Hebrew Roots nuts even claim that Gentiles are, in fact, the lost Ten Tribes and therefore obligated to observe all of Torah due to this..they are descendants of Abraham.

Incidentally, I find it comical that one Hebrew Roots guy claims that he fights with his brother because his brother is from a warlike tribe of ancient Israel, Gad I think...I am not sure if they have different parents but if they have the same parents, that would be amusing because he claims he is from Dan, I believe.

As an Armstrongite, I believed I was from Israel, too, although I didn't try to specify the tribe. Pastors claimed they were likely from the tribe of Levi.

Logic is lost on some people

God must open their heart to see that their war against evangelical Christianity is a result of their indoctrination, and they are not the valiant defenders of "the Truth" like their organizations claim. Don Quixote and the windmills come to mind...bumbling fools with bad eyesight who can't tell the difference between evil giants and windmills.

Hi Sparkman,

That was actually a good paper.. you should post it in here or even parts of it.

loveme1 · Nov 18, 2017

Endoscopy said:

Where JJ dwells it be near night, night times..

Studyman · Nov 18, 2017

phil36 said:

Very smooth and subtle. I asked a question and you do everything but answer it. It's OK, what can you say? Anyone who reads the Bible knows what the Sabbath is and when it is. No real sense in arguing with you about such ancient facts.

God's Word vs. Man's traditions, It's been going on for a long time, and will continue until He comes back.

Regards Phil

Hizikyah · Nov 18, 2017

Snoozy said:

except pharisee laws are man made and transgress YHWH's Laws;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 15:3-9, “But He answering, said to them, “Why do you also transgress the command of YHWH because of your tradition? For YHWH has commanded, saying, ‘Respect your father and your mother,’ ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me has been dedicated, is certainly released from respecting his father or mother.’ So you have nullified the command of YHWH by your tradition."Hypocrites! Well did Isayah (29:13-14*) prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." [/FONT]

Hizikyah · Nov 18, 2017

phil36 said:

you can say Moses!!! Moses!!! MOSESSS!!!!

all you want, it is the Law of YHWH mediated by Yahshua/Jesus.. and the dragon HATES tho who guard His laws;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17 - Parallel Verses[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New American Standard Bible -[/FONT]
“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Scriptures - [/FONT]
“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."

[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12 - Parallel Verses[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Scriptures - Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[FONT=Times New Roman, serif].[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New American Standard Bible - Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"

[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

mailmandan · Nov 19, 2017

sparkman said:

Yeah, you're right. As a former Sabbathkeeper, I realize that the hermeneutics employed by them are all messed up. They also attempt to guilt the person into accepting the Sabbath.

"You don't love God if you don't keep the commandments, and the Sabbath is included in the commandments".

They ignore the fact that Christians believe in obedience to the commandments that apply to THEM and not ancient Israel. It is THEIR presupposition that COMMANDMENTS = TEN COMMANDMENTS, and we don't accept that presupposition...although this works with some Christians because they don't understand that the Mosaic Covenant was one unified Law, and can't be parsed out into Ten Commandments vs. Book of the Covenant like the SDAs and some Christian groups try to do.

Additionally, they will claim that we are the ones twisting Paul's writings to our own destruction, rather than them. That's a common tactic. They are the ignorant and unstable ones..not evangelical Christians.

I posted a paper by a Messianic Jew on Hebrew Roots Movement on a different thread that examines the claim that one becomes true Israel by observing Torah. Some Hebrew Roots nuts even claim that Gentiles are, in fact, the lost Ten Tribes and therefore obligated to observe all of Torah due to this..they are descendants of Abraham.

Incidentally, I find it comical that one Hebrew Roots guy claims that he fights with his brother because his brother is from a warlike tribe of ancient Israel, Gad I think...I am not sure if they have different parents but if they have the same parents, that would be amusing because he claims he is from Dan, I believe.

As an Armstrongite, I believed I was from Israel, too, although I didn't try to specify the tribe. Pastors claimed they were likely from the tribe of Levi.

Logic is lost on some people

God must open their heart to see that their war against evangelical Christianity is a result of their indoctrination, and they are not the valiant defenders of "the Truth" like their organizations claim. Don Quixote and the windmills come to mind...bumbling fools with bad eyesight who can't tell the difference between evil giants and windmills.

Excellent post brother! Well said.

Hizikyah · Nov 19, 2017

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."[/FONT]

JaumeJ · Nov 19, 2017

What is this term "Sabbath Keeper?" The way it is used it sounds like an accusation.

Am I a Sabbath kEEPER just bcause I believe the Sabbath of the Lord or the Sabbath of God is the day He designated it?

My Sabbath is no different from those who observe it on Sunday, well,, except for it being the day the Lord designate and not men.

If any here are Sunday "Sabath Keepers" I cannot fault them in any manner, so why the negative ound from them?

It seems mankind is making up its own commandments complete with accusation for those who wil not go along with them..

Sabbath

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