why would millennial kingdom not be literal?

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Is the millennial kingdom a literal earthly kingdom

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 66.7%

  • No

    Votes: 10 33.3%
  • Total voters
    30
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#61
Nov 12, 2015
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#61
Another thought occurred to me about your own thoughts tanakh. :)

Because of the verse about owning the cattle on a thousand hills, you believe therefore that the other time you see the word thousand, that it has to not be literal.

So...hmmm...this is difficult to convey...it's like, a snake/serpent refers to satan all throughout scripture. Does this mean that when moses held up the pole with the snake on it that it must have to do with satan?

And also, leaven is referred to all throughout scripture as false teaching of men. So in the parable where Jesus says the Kingdom is like a woman who hid some leaven in bread, must He be saying the Kingdom is like false teaching?

And also the despicable man is described as looking like a lamb even though lamb means Jesus all throughout scripture. But we know that this is a despicable man and NOT Jesus being referred to.

In one instance, a serpent had nothing to do with satan and leaven had nothing to do with false teaching and a lamb is not referring to Jesus. What I'm trying to say is...there is no rule that one thing always has to mean the same thing. Because 1000 was used symbolically to mean many and lots in one instance does not mean that 1000 can never be very specific.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#62
Nov 12, 2015
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#62
And Tanakh, this doesn't mean you must change your endtime views or beliefs. I was just saying that in my opinion, your example/argument doesn't hold up or play out to the end as you intend and so you should not use it. :)
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#63
Nov 12, 2015
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#63
This has been an excellent thread so far! I will definitely be back to hear what more you all have to say! :)
I wish I didn't have to go. :mad:
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#66
#66
Stunnedbygrace said:
This has been an excellent thread so far! I will definitely be back to hear what more you all have to say! :)
I wish I didn't have to go. :mad:
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Hope you get back before it gets nasty, They always do. I love this subject, but will not put up with personal attacks and lack of discussion which cause division on a non salvic issue,.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#67
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#67
PennEd said:
No! I was liking that you wish you DIDN'T have to go!
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I was just kidding with you. :D
I am staying here until they knock on the door, so can someone say something profound before I have to go? :D
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#68
#68
How about scripture. Bonded parts can not be speaking of heaven, But this earth.

Ezek 37 [FONT=&quot]Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ [/FONT]17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.[FONT=&quot]18 “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.”’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24 “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. 25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall betheir prince forever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 28 The nations also will know that I, the Lord, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.”’”[/FONT]
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#71
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#71
eternally-gratefull said:
How about scripture. Bonded parts can not be speaking of heaven, But this earth.

Ezek 37 Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.18 “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.”’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
24 “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. 25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall betheir prince forever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 28 The nations also will know that I, the Lord, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.”’”
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Goosebumps. All three times I read the passage you put there. :D
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#72
Nov 12, 2015
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#72
I just got at least a 3 hour reprieve! How about that? I get to stay and work on this some more!

One of the places where I have confusion, is in trying to separate out verses that deal with the 1000 years from verses that deal with the new heaven and earth. Some of them even switch back and forth as a passage goes on!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#74
#74
Stunnedbygrace said:
I just got at least a 3 hour reprieve! How about that? I get to stay and work on this some more!

One of the places where I have confusion, is in trying to separate out verses that deal with the 1000 years from verses that deal with the new heaven and earth. Some of them even switch back and forth as a passage goes on!
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Got examples? Lets talk about it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#75
#75
Next..

IS 11[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse,
And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.
2 The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him,
The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The Spirit of counsel and might,
The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]3 His delight is in the fear of the Lord,
And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes,
Nor decide by the hearing of His ears;
4 But with righteousness He shall judge the poor,
And decide with equity for the meek of the earth;
He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.
5 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins,
And faithfulness the belt of His waist.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]6 “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.
7 The cow and the bear shall graze;
Their young ones shall lie down together;
And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole,
And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord
As the waters cover the sea.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]10 “And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse,
Who shall stand as a banner to the people;
For the Gentiles shall seek Him,
And His resting place shall be glorious.”[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]11 It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord shall set His hand again the second time
To recover the remnant of His people who are left,
From Assyria and Egypt,
From Pathros and Cush,
From Elam and Shinar,
From Hamath and the islands of the sea.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]12 He will set up a banner for the nations,
And will assemble the outcasts of Israel,
And gather together the dispersed of Judah
From the four corners of the earth.
13 Also the envy of Ephraim shall depart,
And the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off;
Ephraim shall not envy Judah,
And Judah shall not harass Ephraim.
14 But they shall fly down upon the shoulder of the Philistines toward the west;
Together they shall plunder the people of the East;
They shall lay their hand on Edom and Moab;
And the people of Ammon shall obey them.
15 The Lord will utterly destroy[a] the tongue of the Sea of Egypt;
With His mighty wind He will shake His fist over the River,[b]
And strike it in the seven streams,
And make men cross over dry-shod.
16 There will be a highway for the remnant of His people
Who will be left from Assyria,
As it was for Israel
In the day that he came up from the land of Egypt.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#76
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
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#76
eternally-gratefull said:
Got examples? Lets talk about it.
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Well...going off of memory here but...here is one reason why the millennial reign cannot be the new heavens and earth yet to me. Because there will be some who still refuse to worship Him and rain will be withheld from their land for it. In the new heavens and earth, would they be allowed there? In the new heavens and earth, will there also still be those who die? Because some still will during the millennium, according to one verse.

So this cannot be a time where there is no more sickness, death or dying. It clearly states those things will still exist for some during these years.

And will satan be released again on the NEW heavens and earth?

So each verse has to be examined to see where it fits.

Its the same for verses that we think have to do with our gathering before wrath. Some fit with it and some really don't.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#77
#77
Stunnedbygrace said:
Well...going off of memory here but...here is one reason why the millennial reign cannot be the new heavens and earth yet to me. Because there will be some who still refuse to worship Him and rain will be withheld from their land for it. In the new heavens and earth, would they be allowed there? In the new heavens and earth, will there also still be those who die? Because some still will during the millennium, according to one verse.

So this cannot be a time where there is no more sickness, death or dying. It clearly states those things will still exist for some during these years.

And will satan be released again on the NEW heavens and earth?

So each verse has to be examined to see where it fits.

Its the same for verses that we think have to do with our gathering before wrath. Some fit with it and some really don't.
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I would agree with all of this.

I guess they need to answer.

I guess I was asking about the verses which switch back and forth..
 
Snoozy

Snoozy

Banned
#78
Jul 23, 2017
879
31
0
#78
Stunnedbygrace said:
So each verse has to be examined to see where it fits.

Its the same for verses that we think have to do with our gathering before wrath. Some fit with it and some really don't.
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u know what this is called? its called rightly dividing the word of truth. and thats extremely important. praise God that ur doing it.
alotta folks refuse to do so and get mixed up in all kinds of false doctrines.

once u rightly divide it, everything falls into place and the bible makes sense, all of the bible, u dont need to ignore scriptures or be bothered by "contradictions".

ur heart seems is right with God, thats the most important thing. u have a very polite attitude, thats something i need to work on. we could learn that from u
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#79
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#79
Stunnedbygrace said:
What I'm trying to say is...there is no rule that one thing always has to mean the same thing. Because 1000 was used symbolically to mean many and lots in one instance does not mean that 1000 can never be very specific.
Click to expand...
In OT 'a thousand' regularly means 'a great many'
 
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