Not By Works

Hizikyah · Dec 17, 2017

Im not sure I unerstand your assessment of Rev 22 passage above. Are you saying that there are 2 differnt ways? I beleive there is only one:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]

and obedience to Yah Laws and faith in Messiah BOTH are hated by the dragon:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]

for the one that says they know Him and does not guard His Commands is as Scripture says a "liar":

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:24, "As for you, let that stay in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning stays in you, you also shall stay in the Son and in the Father."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 6:5, “And you shall love [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.”[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 19:18, ‘Do not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the children of your people. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT][/FONT]

DiscipleDave · Dec 17, 2017

stonesoffire said:

Greeting to you as well.
i agree with all that you say above. i would like to expound a bit on your analogy of the "MUD"

Now this is a giant MUD PIT (Pit of Sin). Jesus is clean and not in the Mud, but calling all those in the Mud to come out of the Mud. All those who are Unsaved/Unbelievers they are UNDER the Mud and can't even be seen in the Mud because they are UNDER all the Mud. But Christians can be seen. Now there are Many who are in the Middle of the Pit of Mud. There are Some who appear to be trying to get out of the Mud, these are they that are looking at Jesus and are half out of the Mud and half in the Mud, but trying to crawl out of the Mud to Jesus. Then there are a few who are completely out of the Mud standing with Jesus White as snow.

Now there are people (preachers) who are called to try to get the Unsaved/Unbelievers up from under the Mud and become Saved from being under the Mud, Saved from death, breathe the air, live. These people once they accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord, are rescued from the Mud, they are white as snow, clean from all things that made them Muddy/dirty, they are clean as Jesus. But then soon after they jump back into the Mud again, even after being made clean.

Now there are people (Family, Friends, Other Christians) who are called to try to encourage those who are half way in the Mud and out of the Mud, encourage them to get out of the Mud. (even if they are also still halfway in the Mud)

Now there are people (Prophets) who are called to warn, exhort, and rebuke those who swimming in the Mud (Living in sin) Thinking they are Heaven bound with no desire to get out of the Mud, These are they that say they are clean but love wallowing in the Mud, and are not willing to get out of the Mud. And if these people exhort them to get out of the Mud they are made fun of, belittled, put down, and the such. Because anyone who teaches against swimming in the Mud is wrong in their eyes (reprobate minds they have)

There is a day coming when there is no more time left. You will either be a good tree or a bad tree. Clean or Muddy. Clean or half clean half muddy (Lukewarm) Those who are clean will be taken with Jesus, those who are Muddy will be left behind.

When a person accepts Jesus as their Savior and Lord, they are taken out of the Mud entirely, they are washed by His Blood, they white as snow, they are CLEAN, and their name is written in the Book of Life. Nothing these did or do can Save them, the free gift is given to anyone who will believe in Jesus. All they had to do is believe in Jesus and He pulls them out of the Mud, cleans them up, and He forgets all their past sins that they have ever done that got them muddy to begin with.

Those who after they accept Jesus and are made Clean, decide to get back in the Mud Pit, are then made dirty again, returning to the mire, their own vomit. These have their names blotted out of the Book of Life, because they chose to obey satan and get back into the Mud Pit again (Heb_10:26 ). But if they get out of the Mud Pit Jesus can make them clean again, white as snow, and their name is Returned into the Book of Life, but only if they get out of the Mud Pit.

my calling is to those who after they have been made white as snow, cleansed by Jesus Christ decide to jump back into the Mud Pit and choose to swim around in it, with no desire to get out of it. These are they that are NOT trying to get sin out of their life, these are they that teach it is impossible to cease from sinning. Even though there is not one sin that a person CAN'T cease from. You can cease from any sin, but these don't want to cease, they like/love to swim in the Mud and have no desire to stop swimming in the Mud. These people swimming in the Mud tell themselves, it is not possible to get out of the Mud, and worse yet they teach others that it is not possible to get out of the Mud, and anyone who is actually trying to get out of the Mud (half in half out) they mock. Saying "Look at those people, they think they actually can get out of the Mud, they don't know it is impossible, lol what idiots" All the while waving to Jesus on the shore, and saying "I Love Him" And these also think that when it is time for Jesus to leave, that He will take them with Him.

Those who are swimming in the Mud Pit, with no desire to get out of it, nor do they think they have to get out of it, will indeed be left behind.

But those who are trying to get out of the Mud Pit, these are they that seek the help of Jesus who is on the shore, and He will help them, because these desire to get out of the Mud Pit. If they keep their eyes on Jesus they will eventually get out of the Mud Pit. But if they are constantly looking away from Jesus and toward all those Christians who are having fun and swimming in the Mud Pit, looking all happy, and praising God at the same time, and they desire to return to the Pit to swim in it, then it will be harder for them to get out of the Pit.

First learn to hate the Mud Pit. Learn to despise swimming in it, then it will be easier to keep your eyes on Jesus. And when your feet is the only thing left in the Mud, is when Jesus will reach down and take you out of it entirely. The Battle is getting to that point. If you are waist deep in the Mud Pit, You will have a lot of work to do to get to the point where you are only Knee deep in the Mud Pit. And when you are knee deep in the Mud Pit, you have a lot of work to get to the point where only your feet are in the Mud. OH and nobody ever WALKS out of the Mud Pit. YOU CRAWL out of it on your belly. The Mud Pit has no bottom to stand on. So if you desire to get out of it. Keep your eyes on Jesus. Swim to Him, then crawl out of the Mud Pit.

Know you not that Jesus is beckoning all of you to get out of the Mud Pit.
Those who continue to live in sin are swimming in the Mud Pit.
Those who are trying to cease from sin, are trying to get out of the Mud Pit.
Which one are you? Are you trying to cease from sinning? Or do you think you don't have to cease from them and you are still Clean?

Those who are washed by His Blood are they that are clean.
1Jn_1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness (MUDDY), we lie, and do not the truth: But IF (Conditional) we walk in the light, as he is in the light (CLEAN), we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin (NO longer in the Mud Pit).

When you accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord, you were taken from under the Mud Pit and cleaned, made white as snow. When you chose to continue to live in sin, you jumped back into the Mud Pit. Now it is time to get out of the Mud Pit, walk in the light so the blood of Jesus can Cleanse you from all sin. But those who are Muddy claiming to be washed by His Blood, are deceived and do not know the TRUTH. Your Master is to whom you obey. if you are obeying satan and living in sin, you are NOT cleansed but are in the Mud Pit. i have told you the Truth, and it is my hope that you will go to the Scriptures and see if all these things i say is TRUE. But i already know, those who love to be in the Mud, will not search the Scriptures to see if what i say is TRUE, they will say that what i teach is UNTRUE based on some false doctrine that they hold on to, anything, just as long as they don't have to get out of the Mud Pit.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Dec 17, 2017

dcontroversal said:

True. Is there a person on CC whose name is "D" if not then it could be referring to ANYONE who has a username that starts with "D". Correct? This is the Post that i responded to:

Are you "d" saying it is wicked of me to think "D" might be referring to me?

When i seen the statement "for you, D.

" i did not know if the poster was talking to me or to someone else who started with a "D" So then i replied with:

Then you responded to me saying

This you say to me, and not the person who said

If the poster would have said decon, which i think most people do, then i would not have thought "D" was directed to me. If there are more than one username starting with "D" can't you see how that would cause confusion? Or was i to read the posters mind and know who "D" was referring to?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

dcontroversal · Dec 17, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Do you "guard" every scripture and keep every law 24/7/365? No you do not......Do you claim to KNOW HIM? Yes you do.....does that make you a liar? And your questions above are very deceitful.....You obviously know that I believe that there is but ONE WAY ->Through faith and that no verse is a LIE, but rather CONTEXT AND APPLICATION determines the pointed direction of each and every scripture....you prove one of two things by the above questions....maybe three things...either A. You do not listen or understand, B. You do listen and understand and are deceptive, C. You wilfully twist what one states on purpose to push your law abiding dogma.....make no mistake...the law deems you guilty and you do not keep the law....I say this because NO MAN KEEPS THE LAW and if you have broken it once (past tense) you are a law breaker and guilty....so choose...LAW or GRACE.....both is impossible according to PAUL....Tragic how you choose an inferior way that is weak and condemns!

dcontroversal · Dec 17, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

True. Is there a person on CC whose name is "D" if not then it could be referring to ANYONE who has a username that starts with "D". Correct? This is the Post that i responded to:

Are you "d" saying it is wicked of me to think "D" might be referring to me?

When i seen the statement "for you, D.

" i did not know if the poster was talking to me or to someone else who started with a "D" So then i replied with:

Then you responded to me saying

This you say to me, and not the person who said

If the poster would have said decon, which i think most people do, then i would not have thought "D" was directed to me. If there are more than one username starting with "D" can't you see how that would cause confusion? Or was i to read the posters mind and know who "D" was referring to?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Yep....context....Dcontroversal starts with D and I was a a MARINE "avatar"..........seems rather self explanatory

DiscipleDave · Dec 17, 2017

Endoscopy said:

lol. my calling is to those who keep on obeying satan continually after accepting Jesus. And you think that is a bad thing?

Romans 7. The Apostle Paul was a devout Religious person before Christ changed him. Romans Chapter 7 is a description of Paul's Religious Life as a devout Pharisee BEFORE he was a Christian, which was a wretched person.
But who saved Him from his previous religious error of thinking: Jesus Christ.

To say and teach that Romans Chapter 7 is suppose to be a description of a Christian, is to believe and teach a false doctrine.
Who promotes false doctrines? satan does.

Endoscopy said:

Apostle Paul describing his condition of living UNDER THE LAW of the old covenant. The LAW (old covenant) told them what sin is.

Endoscopy said:

Again describing sin under the Old Testament, under the old covenant, under the Law.

Endoscopy said:

This is a description of Paul as a devout Pharisee. Paul was a religious fanatic. That is why he was so eager to destroy the New Doctrine that came against his religion and kill anyone who taught the heresy Jesus Christ. Paul was a very religious man even before Jesus came into his life.

Endoscopy said:

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;

Click to expand...

Paul, as a Pharisee, delights in God's Law, the 10 Commandments. Again, a description of Paul's miserable life as a devout Pharisee.

Endoscopy said:

23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.

Click to expand...

Law of sin, was the acknowledgement of the Laws of the Old Testament, under the old covenant.

Endoscopy said:

24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Click to expand...

So the Apostle Paul describes his miserable wretched life living under God's Law, and the Law of sin, and who is able to deliver him from the description of this wretched man? Who can deliver him? Jesus Christ.
Who can deliver you from you wretched living in sin? Jesus Christ can.

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.[/QUOTE]

Tell me. Does the mind control what the flesh does? i mean if my flesh desires to commit adultery. is it not the mind that agrees to do that and proceed to fulfill the desires of the flesh? If a persons mind serves God, then that person would not be obeying the desires of the flesh.

my flesh desires to fornicate. Yet i have been celibate for over 10 years. Why is that? my flesh desires to sin, to please itself, to have a sexual relationship, but my mind serves God. Therefore who do you think wins. my mind or the flesh? If then i serve God with my mind, i will NOT be obeying the flesh which desires to sin. The Apostle Paul affirms this in the very next Chapter after Chapter 7.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (No condemnation to those who DO NOT walk after the flesh, woe to them who think they will not be condemned all the while they DO walk after the flesh, woe to them indeed)

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (The Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed us from obeying the Laws of the Old Testament, which includes the 10 Commandments.

Rom 8:3 For what the law (Old Covenant) could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (Condemns it, NOT condones it)

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Righteousness is imputed to them who ONLY walk after the Spirit, and not to those who walk after the flesh, to fulfill the desires of the flesh.

If then you serve God with your mind, you will NOT be obeying your flesh and its sinful desires.
my flesh desires to sin, because my flesh is sinful, weak, filthy rags, it is contrary to the Spirit. But if my mind serves God, it will NOT obey the desires of the flesh at all. Woe to those who think they are Righteous, yet continue to do that which is unrighteous. Woe to those who think their minds serve God all the while they obey satan and live in sin. These are lukewarm Christians. They claim with their mouths they are Saved, they are Righteous through Jesus, and such things they say. But what is in their hearts is revealed by the works that they do. If they live in sin, they choose who their master is, no matter what they claim with their mouths. Lukewarm, they believe in Jesus but obey His enemy and that on a daily basis it seems. There is no place for Lukewarm Christians in Heaven.

Good new though. Now you know the TRUTH which i testify God has told me these things, now you can change and stop obeying the enemy of Jesus Christ and start obeying ONLY Jesus. Know you not that the Holy Ghost is given to them that Obey Him (Acts 5:32) Repent, turn away from your sinning. You have been reproved, rebuked, and exhorted to stop obeying satan, and start walking as Jesus did.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Dec 17, 2017

dcontroversal said:

And you have effectively shown that i am stupid in my personal life. i still Love you dcontroversal.

i never felt like i was a smart person in this life. But one thing that i do have. Is that i know what God has told me, is very True. i don't know much, even as you pointed out, concerning many things. But i do know Scriptures and what God told me.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

VCO · Dec 17, 2017

stonesoffire said:

So for me, this verse that says "the OT Saint in hell, and they went to Paradise then with him", can be clarified with the following verse.

I TOTALLY TRUST THIS VERSE:

Isaiah 14:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The LORD of Hosts has sworn: As I have purposed, so it will be; as I have planned it, so it will happen.

THAT MAKES IT EVERY BIT AS MUCH "ABSOLUTE TRUTH", from the MOMENT he had planned it to happen someday.

If GOD understood how ONE MAN can be righteous before God. THAN WE KNOW HOW ALL PEOPLE CAN BE RIGHTEOUS BEFORE GOD.

Romans 4:3 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say?
“Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”

Malachi 3:6 (ESV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] “For I the LORD do not change;
therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

THEREFORE, ALL ARE SAVED THE SAME WAY AS ABRAHAM,
AND THEREFORE ALL therefore are Justified Same way.

They get that THEORY from the Verse that says:

Ephesians 4:8-9 (YLT)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] wherefore, he saith, `Having gone up on high he led captive captivity, and gave gifts to men,' --
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and that, he went up, what is it except that he also went down first to the lower parts of the earth?

THAT OLD ROMAN MEANING HAS ALMOST LOST IT MEANING TODAY.

Here is its Meaning, but first you have to understand this verse:

Revelation 1:17-18 (ASV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as one dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying, Fear not; I am the first and the last,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] and the Living one; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

When DID HE First get the KEYS to Death and Hades?

Isaiah 14:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The LORD of Hosts has sworn: As I have purposed, so it will be; as I have planned it, so it will happen.

WHEN HE FIRST PLANNED IT.

So what does it mean, when He said:

Ephesians 4:8-9 (YLT)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] wherefore, he saith, `Having gone up on high he led captive captivity, and gave gifts to men,' --
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and that, he went up, what is it except that he also went down first to the lower parts of the earth?

That is a Roman military expression for POST-BATTLE Victory Parade for those THE VICTORES, who would led the ones who had held us as Captives, Death and Hades {the Grave}. Yes, the secondary meaning of that word is GRAVE.

Revelation 20:14 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Death and Hades {the Grave} were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

IT IS NOT TALKING ABOUT the Death and a place of torment for the Disembodied spirits of the unbeliever, NOR for the (bad theology) of the Disembodied spirits and the place of rest for the Believer. IT IS the Death and the Grave, which have LED US captives, all led us all these long years. CHRIST WILL IN HIS VICTORY PARADE, LED THE DEATH AND THE GRAVE, AS HIS CAPTIVITY, ON HIS MARCH TO THE LAKE OF FIRE, TO BANISH THEM FOREVER.

The Old Testament Saints are those who believe GOD would sent a Messiah.

The New Testament Saints are those did believe GOD did sent a Messiah.

IT IS THE SAME FAITH, THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM.

Hizikyah · Dec 17, 2017

dcontroversal said:

You take a have to be sinless or have to not submit to His Law approach. It is not only those 2 options. Then you accuse people of claiming to be sinless.

Fact is if there is no Law there is not sin:

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

Romans 4:15, "Because the law works wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."

Fact is all sin yet we ahve mercy in the blood of Messiah:

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."

Fact is the faith does not abolish the Law:

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law*!"

As the Messiah said it would not apss:

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

yet so many call all types of names for those who say Yah's Law is righteous and to be obeyed...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]

dcontroversal said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

[/FONT]

Psalm 19:7-11, “The Torah of יהוה is perfect, bringing back the being; The witness of יהוה is trustworthy, making wise the simple; The orders of יהוה are straight, rejoicing the heart; The command of יהוה is clear, enlightening the eyes; The fear of יהוה is clean, standing forever; The right-rulings of יהוה are true, They are righteous altogether, More desirable than gold, Than much fine gold; And sweeter than honey and the honeycomb. Also, Your servant is warned by them, In guarding them there is great reward.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Seohce · Dec 17, 2017

Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you HYPOCRITES; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules TAUGHT BY MEN.’ You have let go of the COMMANDS OF GOD and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “YOU HAVE A FINE iWAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then YOU NO LONGER LET HIM DO ANYTHING for his father or mother. Thus YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. And YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT.”

BillG · Dec 17, 2017

Seohce said:

Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you HYPOCRITES; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules TAUGHT BY MEN.’ You have let go of the COMMANDS OF GOD and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “YOU HAVE A FINE iWAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. And YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT.”

Evening bro.
Just wanted to say evening before I go to bed.

Right enjoy the rest of your day.

God bless.

Seohce · Dec 17, 2017

BillG said:

Thanks bro. I appreciate your kindness. It's morning here and just got up from bed. God bless you bro.

BillG · Dec 17, 2017

Seohce said:

Ooh where do you live? Morning your time and evening here. It's 10:30 here.

Right now I am is if to bed.

What do you have the breakfast?

Seohce · Dec 17, 2017

BillG said:

I live a bit south of Manila, in the city of Santa Rosa in the province of Laguna here in the Philippines. I was born and grew up in Manila but preferred to live in Laguna because I find it more peaceful and easy living. I'm just having oatmeal with banana right now after having too much roast pork in our homeowners christmas party last night.

Beez · Dec 17, 2017

Still new to Reformed, am I misunderstanding the idea of works?

As I understand it, put very simply:
1. A true believer will do the works of obedience in the Bible; thus, this is proof to other people that they may be believers, but they get no extra points with G-D for doing them.
2. But there are those who are not believers who appear to do the works of believers; these are "tares" in the "wheat field," but they get no extra points with G-D for doing them.
3. A true believer cannot be obedient at all times; we remain imperfect, thus sinners, and they get no extra points with G-D for doing them.
4. A newer but true believer is not likely to have enough knowledge of the Bible to always do all things right, but they get no demerits from G-D for not doing them (although fellow human beings will be glad to dole out plenty of demerits).
5. One who does not learn what the Bible says to do also does not have enough knowledge of the Bible to always do all things right.

6. One who does what their teacher(s) say, without being sure the Bible is in agreement, gets no extra points with G-D for doing any of them.

[SUB][/SUB]

Is this about (simply) right?

Beez · Dec 17, 2017

To me, this is the scariest Scripture in the Bible: Matthew 7:21-23 (NASB) 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.' I wonder how many depend upon their own works to get them through "that day," but in reality, He never knew them.

Hizikyah · Dec 17, 2017

Wonderful thoughts IMO about seeking to truly asses the word and it's principles, this is the type of self examanation concerning that word that is vital to properly know if we are in His word or not. Love and respect in Messiah!

Beez said:

Yah's acceptable works are hand in hand with real faith, and noting should be done to approve to man, we can shine our oight but nothing to impress, gain accolades, justify, etc. of man

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:15, "So he told them, “You try to justify yourselves in front of people, but GodYah knows your hearts, because what is highly valued by people is detestable to Yah."

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 4:12-13, “For the Word of Yah is living, and working, and sharper than any two-edged sword, cutting through even to the dividing of being and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all are naked and laid bare before the eyes of Him with whom is our account.”[/FONT]

Beez said:

The tares seem to be "in the same field" thus proclaimed beleivers that will be "seperated" upon Yahshua/Jesus return:

Matthew 13:24-30, “Another parable He put before them, saying, “The reign of the heavens has become like a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed darnel (tares) among the wheat and went away. And when the blade sprouted and bore fruit, then the darnel (tares) also appeared. And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? From where then does it have the darnel (tares)?’ And he said to them, ‘A man, an enemy did this.’ And the servants said to him, ‘Do you wish then, that we go and gather them up?’ But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the darnel (tares) you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I shall say to the reapers, “First gather the darnel (tares) and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my granary.”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”[/FONT]

Beez said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have done righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”[/FONT]

Beez said:

None will know all the truth of Yah's written word upon jopiningto Yah, yet we are told to seek. These were the guidelines for new converts:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 15:19-21,29 “19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the nations who are turning to YHWH, 20, but that we write to them to abstain from the defilements of idols, and from whoring, and from what is strangled, and from blood. 21, For from ancient generations Mosheh has, in every city, those proclaiming him – being read in the congregations every Sabbath. 29, that you abstain from what is offered to idols, and blood, and what is strangled, and whoring. If you keep yourselves from these, you shall do well. Be strong!”

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 19:17, "You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Proverbs 24:25-26, "But he who rebukes the wicked will be a delight, and a righteous blessing will be called upon him. A fitting; appropriate, answer is like a kiss on the lips."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 17:3-4, "So be on your guard! If your brother trespasses against you, rebuke him! But if he repents, forgive him! And if he trespasses against you seven times in one day, and seven times in that day turns to you, and says; I repent; then you must forgive him."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Proverbs 10:17, "He who keeps instruction is in the way of life, but he who refuses reproof goes astray."

We should correct our brothers and sisters in Messiah yet we have to be right before we can properly correct another, and even then we are supposed to do it in a gentle and forgiving manner:

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 7:1-5, “Do not judge, lest you be judged. For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged. And with the same measure you use, it shall be measured to you. And why do you look at the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the plank in your own eye? Or how is it that you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the splinter out of your eye,’ and see, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you shall see clearly to remove the splinter out of your brother’s eye.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Proverbs 9:8-10, “Do not reprove a scoffer, lest he hate you; Reprove a wise one, and he loves you. Give instruction to a wise one, and he is wiser still; Teach a righteous one, and he increases in learning. The fear of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Set-apart One is understanding.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Proverbs 19:2, “It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way.”[/FONT]

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Beez said:

None will

Psalm 119:9, “How would a young man cleanse his path? To guard it according to Your word.”

Psalm 119:11, “I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you.”

Deuteronomy 30:11-13, “For this Law which I command you this day is not hidden from you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask; Who will ascend up into heaven for us, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask; Who will cross the sea, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it?”

Isaiah 34:16, “Search from the book of יהוה, and read: not one of these shall be missing, not one shall be without a mate, for He has commanded my mouth. And His Spirit shall gather them.”

Hosea 4:6, “My people have perished for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being priest for Me. Since you have forgotten the Instructions of your Mighty One, I also forget your children."

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Beez said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 5:29, "And Kĕpha and the other emissaries answering, said, “We have to obey YHWH rather than men.” [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 2:5, “His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever He says to you.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Kings 17:19, “Yehuḏah, also, did not guard the commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]their Strength, but walked in the laws of Yisra’yl which they made.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition."

following another mans teachings is called "following behind the one in the center" in Isaiah 65 or 66, achar echad tawek, it is not a right thing and shows that Yah is not our guide.

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”[/FONT]

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Hizikyah · Dec 17, 2017

Beez said:

You are really awesome praiseYah! for His people. I think similar, this passage actually cased me to self examine and self reflect who I was and what I beleived to the point where I sought to know, understand and bind His words to my mind/heart and hands/actions. As it also was not something I ever want to hear.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Malakyah 3:16, "Then those who reverenced YHWH spoke often one to another, and YHWH paid attention and heard them; and a Book of Remembrance was written in His presence of those who gave reverence to YHWH, and who thought upon His Name."[/FONT]

Hizikyah · Dec 17, 2017

Magenta said:

I meant to say "assess"

It is too late to change it now...

Magenta · Dec 17, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Yes, I was watching and waiting, hoping you would catch it in time...

Just wanted to give you a heads up

Not By Works

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