Not By Works

[mailmandan]

To me, this is the scariest Scripture in the Bible: Matthew 7:21-23 (NASB) 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.' I wonder how many depend upon their own works to get them through "that day," but in reality, He never knew them.​

I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is by works.​

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.

Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many "alleged" wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive eternal life based on the merit of their performance. Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS! There are false prophets who prophecy in the name of Jesus and even make false prophecies.

In Matthew 12:27, we read that the sons of the Pharisees cast out demons and they were not born of God. Satan may grant the power to one of his agents to cast out demons from another of his agents in order to gain attention and loyalty from an audience to win them over through deception for his own evil agenda.

I personally used to know a woman who is a Mormon that allegedly cast a demon out of a teenage boy. She claims the demon came out of the boy, began to attack her, then stopped and with an eerie voice said, "oohhh, you're a child a God" then left. She then boasted about how that demon knew better than to mess with her! Of course, she was not a believer, yet the demon convinced her that she was through this experience. This made her all the more convinced that she was perfectly fine right where she was in her Mormon faith which perverts the gospel of Christ.

In Matthew 10:1, we also see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. This would include Judas Iscariot, yet Jesus referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:71; 13:10-11). Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).

 

[Beez]

. . . how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is by works.​

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. . . .

Yes. And that tears me up. I was among such for more than my first 50 years, and many were nice people. (One can hardly spend so much time with people and not care deeply.) For them to stand before G-D and hear Him say, "I never knew you" is so frightening.

It scares me even more for family members.

My husband and I talk about this occasionally, trying to understand. It's hard. He seems to have more confidence for them than I have.

 

[Ralph-]

I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is by works.​

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.

Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many "alleged" wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive eternal life based on the merit of their performance. Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS! There are false prophets who prophecy in the name of Jesus and even make false prophecies.

In Matthew 12:27, we read that the sons of the Pharisees cast out demons and they were not born of God. Satan may grant the power to one of his agents to cast out demons from another of his agents in order to gain attention and loyalty from an audience to win them over through deception for his own evil agenda.

I personally used to know a woman who is a Mormon that allegedly cast a demon out of a teenage boy. She claims the demon came out of the boy, began to attack her, then stopped and with an eerie voice said, "oohhh, you're a child a God" then left. She then boasted about how that demon knew better than to mess with her! Of course, she was not a believer, yet the demon convinced her that she was through this experience. This made her all the more convinced that she was perfectly fine right where she was in her Mormon faith which perverts the gospel of Christ.

In Matthew 10:1, we also see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. This would include Judas Iscariot, yet Jesus referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:71; 13:10-11). Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).

Don't confuse service with obedience. Obedience is better than sacrifice.

One's service in the kingdom of God will never replace or make up for obedience. Christ said these people practice lawlessness. They are not obedient. They serve, but they do not obey. If they were obedient they would be showing their faith. Works of service do not prove the presence of saving faith. Ministerial works of service are not the proof of saving faith.

 

[Ralph-]

Yes. And that tears me up. I was among such for more than my first 50 years, and many were nice people. (One can hardly spend so much time with people and not care deeply.) For them to stand before G-D and hear Him say, "I never knew you" is so frightening.

It scares me even more for family members.

My husband and I talk about this occasionally, trying to understand. It's hard. He seems to have more confidence for them than I have.

What should scare you more is Matthew 18:6-9. Causing one who believes in Christ to stumble and go to the eternal fire, or being the believer who stumbles to the point of being condemned to the eternal fires of damnation is a very sobering subject.

 

[mailmandan]

Don't confuse service with obedience. Obedience is better than sacrifice.

One's service in the kingdom of God will never replace or make up for obedience. Christ said these people practice lawlessness. They are not obedient. They serve, but they do not obey. If they were obedient they would be showing their faith. Works of service do not prove the presence of saving faith. Ministerial works of service are not the proof of saving faith.

I don't confuse external service with genuine obedience and we SHOW our faith by our works (James 2:18). Prophesying in His name, casting out demons and good works done out of FAITH is not practicing lawlessness. External obedience (in their case) done "apart from faith" equates to practicing lawlessness. ALL unbelievers are in that same boat. Attempted obedience accomplished "apart from faith" with the wrong motives for the wrong purpose is not genuine obedience. Just look at the Pharisees.

 

[Ralph-]

Prophesying in His name, casting out demons and good works done out of FAITH is not practicing lawlessness.

Right, ministerial works have nothing to do with being lawless or lawful. Not obeying is lawlessness. Obedience is better than the sacrifice of our service.

External obedience (in their case) done "apart from faith" equates to practicing lawlessness. ALL unbelievers are in that same boat.

Not keeping the law is lawlessness. See the connection?

Apart from faith, or done in faith, obedience is lawfulness. Not being obedient is lawlessness. That has nothing to do with works of ministerial service.

Attempted obedience accomplished "apart from faith" with the wrong motives for the wrong purpose is not genuine obedience. Just look at the Pharisees.

No, the Pharisees were not obedient. Jesus showed how much they did not obey the law. They thought outward appearances was keeping the law, but Jesus showed them they did not keep the internal matters of the law--not being greedy, not being covetous, and so on.

 

[mailmandan]

Not keeping the law is lawlessness. See the connection?

Nobody has perfectly obeyed the law (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23). The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 6:23). See the connection? (Romans 3:22-28; 4:4-6; Galatians 2:16).

Apart from faith, or done in faith, obedience is lawfulness. Not being obedient is lawlessness. That has nothing to do with works of ministerial service.

Without faith it's impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6).

No, the Pharisees were not obedient.

Exactly my point.

 

[VCO]

For those who have prayed, I thank you for the Prayers. I stroke that I have had, has been answered. Sure it takes me a little longer to proof and post, but it has been answered. I had a fear that it would stay like that, but the Lord made sure of that, I had the ability to posts here. Thanks Again.

 

[Ralph-]

Nobody has perfectly obeyed the law (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23). The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 6:23). See the connection? (Romans 3:22-28; 4:4-6; Galatians 2:16).

Without faith it's impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6).

Exactly my point.

Are you lawless? If you say yes, then you will be condemned when you get to the judgement. If you say no, then you'll have to explain your point in posting the scriptures about how no one has obeyed the law perfectly including you.

Lawful people are not perfectly obedient people. But they aren't lawless either. No one keeping the law perfectly is not an excuse for lawlessness. Faith doesn't replace the requirement to not be lawless. There is no such thing as a lawless person but who has faith and is saved on that basis. But it seems a lot of people think there is. Faith doesn't replace the need for works in salvation. Faith makes it so the saved person can't be lawless, because if they are Jesus is going to reject them at the judgment. That's what he said.

Faith was given to us so our sins are forgiven, and so we don't continue in lawlessness and condemn ourselves because of that lawlessness. Faith doesn't make it so we can be lawless. You'll be condemned by Jesus if you think that. He said so.

 

[mailmandan]

Are you lawless? If you say yes, then you will be condemned when you get to the judgement.

If you say no, then you'll have to explain your point in posting the scriptures about how no one has obeyed the law perfectly including you.

I'm not lawless, but apart from the blood of Christ, we were all lawless. Hebrews 10:16 - "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." 17 Then he adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more." 18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

Romans 8:1 - Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Lawful people are not perfectly obedient people. But they aren't lawless either.

I know that.

No one keeping the law perfectly is not an excuse for lawlessness.

Never said it was.

Faith doesn't replace the requirement to not be lawless. There is no such thing as a lawless person but who has faith and is saved on that basis. But it seems a lot of people think there is.

Who are these people who think that? Saved through faith but still lawless is an oxymoron.

Faith doesn't replace the need for works in salvation.

So you teach salvation by works? From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is NOT BY WORKS. Works are the fruit of faith, but not the means of our salvation.

Faith makes it so the saved person can't be lawless, because if they are Jesus is going to reject them at the judgment. That's what he said.

Faith was given to us so our sins are forgiven, and so we don't continue in lawlessness and condemn ourselves because of that lawlessness. Faith doesn't make it so we can be lawless. You'll be condemned by Jesus if you think that. He said so.

Again, faith + lawless = oxymoron. There are only sheep and goats. There are no shoats.

 

[Radius]

Jesus told many stories, this story addresses this topic.

A Sinful Woman Anoints Jesus
36Then one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to eat with him, and He entered the Pharisee’s house and reclined at the table. 37When a sinful woman from that town learned that Jesus was dining there, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume. 38As she stood behind Him at His feet weeping, she began to wet His feet with her tears and wipe them with her hair. Then she kissed His feet and anointed them with the perfume.
39When the Pharisee who had invited Jesus saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, He would know who this is and what kind of woman is touching Him—for she is a sinner!”
40But Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to tell you.”
“Tell me, Teacher,” he said.
41“Two men were debtors to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii,c and the other fifty. 42When they were unable to repay him, he forgave both of them. Which one, then, will love him more?”
43“I suppose the one who was forgiven more,” Simon replied.
“You have judged correctly.” Jesus said.
44And turning to the woman, He said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? When I entered your house, you did not give Me water for My feet, but she wet My feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45You did not greet Me with a kiss, but she has not stopped kissing My feet since I arrived. 46You did not anoint My head with oil, but she has anointed My feet with perfume. 47Therefore I tell you, because her many sins have been forgiven, she has loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.”

48Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

49But those at the table began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

50And Jesus told the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

 

[Inquistor]

For those who have prayed, I thank you for the Prayers. I stroke that I have had, has been answered. Sure it takes me a little longer to proof and post, but it has been answered. I had a fear that it would stay like that, but the Lord made sure of that, I had the ability to posts here. Thanks Again.

Strokes are a result of a ruptured blood vessel in the brain, isn't that correct? You had better get some chelated COPPER into your diet! There was a study of 50,000 turkeys done years (or perhaps decades) ago. They were experimenting with nutrients in their food pellets. They took out copper, and lost a huge percentage of turkeys because they died of ruptured aortic aneurysms! Without copper, the ability of such tissues to stretch without tearing is drastically reduced!

 

[Ralph-]

So you teach salvation by works?

No, I do not teach that.

What I say is salvation without works is not salvation. You can not separate works from salvation. What you can do is separate works from justification, but you can not separate works from salvation. As you yourself say, there is no such thing as a saved person who has no righteous works. This idiocy of claiming you can be saved without works must stop.

 

[dcontroversal]

And you have effectively shown that i am stupid in my personal life. i still Love you dcontroversal.

i never felt like i was a smart person in this life. But one thing that i do have. Is that i know what God has told me, is very True. i don't know much, even as you pointed out, concerning many things. But i do know Scriptures and what God told me.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

I never said you were stupid and we all make MISTAKES migo

 

[Inquistor]

No, I do not teach that.

What I say is salvation without works is not salvation. You can not separate works from salvation. What you can do is separate works from justification, but you can not separate works from salvation. As you yourself say, there is no such thing as a saved person who has no righteous works. This idiocy of claiming you can be saved without works must stop.

There is a scripture which confirms your assertion above! "Faith without WORKS is DEAD!"

 

[VCO]

Guys, I never knew this was an issue before. But, my own thinking was to say body of Christ, just because I knew church wasn't representative of all in Christ. So I googled.

- Berean Bible Society - https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org -​

Part 53: The Church in the Wilderness — The Prophesied Church — The Church of the Mystery

Posted By Pastor J. C. O'Hair On November 2, 2012 @ 1:17 pm In The Unsearchable Riches of Christ | Comments Disabled The seventh chapter of Acts records Stephen’s message to Israel in Jerusalem. In reviewing Israel’s history Stephen made reference to “the Church in the wilderness.”

“THIS IS HE, THAT WAS IN THE CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS WITH THE ANGEL WHICH SPAKE TO HIM IN THE MOUNT SINAI, AND WITH OUR FATHERS: WHO RECEIVED THE LIVELY ORACLES TO GIVE UNTO US.” Acts 7:38.
​

Then in Hebrews 2:12 we find a fulfillment of the prophecy of Psalm 22:22 concerning God’s Church or Congregation. Note first, Psalm 22:22 and then, Hebrews 2:12.

“I will declare Thy name unto My brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise Thee.”
“I WILL DECLARE THY NAME UNTO MY BRETHREN, IN THE MIDST OF THE CHURCH WILL I SING PRAISE UNTO THEE.”
​

Now, by way of comparison, read Colossians 1:24 to 26 and Ephesians 3:4 to 6

“WHO NOW REJOICE IN MY SUFFERINGS FOR YOU, AND FILL UP THAT WHICH IS BEHIND OF THE AFFLICTIONS OF CHRIST IN MY FLESH FOR HIS BODY’S SAKE, WHICH IS THE CHURCH: WHEREOF I AM MADE A MINISTER, ACCORDING TO THE DISPENSATION OF GOD WHICH IS GIVEN TO ME FOR YOU, TO FULFIL THE WORD OF GOD; EVEN THE MYSTERY WHICH HATH BEEN HID FROM AGES AND FROM GENERATIONS, BUT NOW IS MADE MANIFEST TO HIS SAINTS.”
“Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellow-heirs, and of the same (Joint) Body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel.”
​

Before we consider these three “CHURCHES” let us read Acts 19:32, 37, 39 and 41.

“Some therefore cried one thing, and some another; for the assembly was confused; and the more part knew not wherefore they were come together.”
“For ye have brought hither these men, which are neither robbers of churches, nor yet blasphemers of your goddess.”
“But if ye enquire any thing concerning other matters, it shall be determined in a lawful assembly.”
“And when he had spoken, he dismissed the assembly.”
​

The disciples of Christ were in the midst of an angry mob of idolatrous heathen, in the theatre at Ephesus. The mob was called “an assembly.” The Greek word translated “assembly” is “ekklesia.” You and I have just as much right to call that mob of heathen “a church” as the translators had to call God’s company of saints “a church.” The word “church” or “churches” is found about 117 times in the New Testament Scriptures. With the single exception of Acts 19:37, every time the word “church” is found in the Bible the Greek word is, “ekklesia.” Note the expression, ‘`robbers of churches,” in Acts 19:37. This expression is translated from two Greek words: “sulao” meaning “to rob,” and “heiron,” meaning “temple.” More than fifty times in the New Testament Scriptures the temple at Jerusalem is in the Greek “heiron.”
I am sure then that you would like to join with me in asking the translators why they have left us in such confusion. Why did they translate “heiron,” “churches”? Why did they translate “ekklesia” three times “assembly” in Acts 19, and 116 times “church”? Where did they get such a word as “church”? “Ekklesia” should never have been translated “church.” The word “church” is a form of “Kurios.” “Kurios” is translated many, many times “Lord.” So see how indefinite and vague is the translation of “Ekkesia,” “of the Lord” To be sure “the assembly” at Ephesus in the theatre was “of the devil,” but it was an “ekkesia.” The “ekkesia” described in Ephesians 1:22 and 23 is “of the Lord.” Note these verses

“AND HATH PUT ALL THINGS UNDER HIS FEET, AND GAVE HIM TO BE HEAD OVER ALL THINGS TO THE CHURCH, WHICH IS HIS BODY, THE FULNESS OF HIM THAT FILLETH ALL IN ALL.”
​

“Ekklesia” is from the Greek “kaleo,” “call,” “ek,” “out.” “The Church” means “the called-out.”
Now note I Timothy 3:15 and 16

“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in THE HOUSE OF GOD, which is THE CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD, THE PILLAR AND GROUND OF THE TRUTH. And without controversy great is the mystery.”
​

Here we read of “the Church of the living God,” “the Ekklesia of the living God,” “the pillar and ground of the truth,” “the House of God,” “the mystery.” There is no reference here to an assembly-hall or meeting place. “The House of God” is a building made of human beings. “The Church of God,” during this present Divine economy, is called, “the Body of Christ,” “the fulness of Christ.”
You and I know perfectly well that no building of stone, brick, or wood, could be the fulness of Christ. Think of the utter confusion of the religious world today. A meeting-place is called “a church.” The majority of the people who attend the meetings in the building, as well as the preacher, may be unsaved. The name “church,” “of the Lord,” is misleading when applied to unsaved human beings gathered in a so-called “church” building. Many people seem to associate the building in some way with God, though God may have nothing to do with it.
When one of the denominations, near Chicago, was rebuilding their beautiful expensive religious edifice, their contractor had a large sign on the temporary barricade, “Danger, Keep Out.” Some man of God said, “What a pity they did not leave that sign there after the building was completed.” Why? Because God had nothing to do with that “church.” The pastor did not believe in the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ or salvation by the once-for-all sacrifice of the Son of God. He was a modernist, and his people followed him with his new theology. He wholly ignored acts 20:28. “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Spirit hath made you overseers, to feed the Church of God, which He hath purchased with His own blood.”
Not once does the word “church,” in the New Testament Scriptures, refer to the assembly-hall. The word “ekklesia” could not be correctly translated “an assembly-hall.” There is a very great difference between “an assembly-hall” and “the assembly.”
There was a building, in the Old Testament, known as “the house of God.” The Psalmist was glad when they said, “let us go into the house of God.”Every person should rejoice at such an invitation today, but it would mean something entirely different. Some Israelites went many times into “the house of God,” but a believing sinner, in the day of grace, enters once-for-all into “the House of God,” to indeed dwell forever.
Note this House in Ephesians 2:17 to 22:

“AND CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHICH WERE AFAR OFF, AND TO THEM THAT WERE NIGH. FOR THROUGH HIM WE BOTH HAVE ACCESS BY ONE SPIRIT UNTO THE FATHER. NOW THEREFORE YE ARE NO MORE STRANGERS AND FOREIGNERS, BUT FELLOW CITIZENS WITH THE SAINTS, AND OF THE HOUSEHOLD OF GOD; AND ARE BUILT UPON THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF BEING THE CHIEF CORNER STONE IN WHOM ALL THE BUILDING FITLY FRAMED TOGETHER, GROWETH UNTO AN HOLY TEMPLE IN THE LORD.”
​

How do we enter the House of God today? “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” I Corinthians 12:13. Then note Ephesians 4:4 to 6.
THE CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS

Now let us consider Acts 7:38. Here we read of an “ekklesia in the wilderness.” So we see that God had a “Church” long before Christ said, “on this rock I will build My Church.” Matthew 16:16 to 18.
God’s people were “called-out” of Egypt to go to Canaan. On the way they had a sanctuary in the tabernacle, and God met with them and communed with them from above the blood sprinkled mercy-seat.
More than 25 times, in the Book of II Chronicles, God referred to the gatherings of His covenanted people as “the ekklesia.” We read in the authorized version of the Bible the word “congregation.” But in the Greek Septuagint the word is “ekklesia,” the same Greek word found 116 times in the New Testament Scriptures. In Nehemiah 13:1 we read of the “ekklesia of God”; and in that Book we learn that the enemies of God persecuted “the ekklesia of God.” Therefore the Apostle Paul was not the first man to persecute “the Church of God.” Galatians 1:13.
A very simple but important lesson for us to learn is that “the Body of Christ” is “the Church of God”; but “the Church of God” is not necessarily “the Body of Christ. “
THE PROPHESIED CHURCH

We have quoted Psalm 22:22 and Hebrews 2:12. The Psalmist prophesied concerning “the ekklesia” (the congregation). In Hebrews 2:12 the prophesied “ekklesia” is “the Church.” Thus we see that we must some times give a general meaning to the word “ekklesia” (Church), and sometimes a very definite and specific meaning. God’s prophets foretold “a Church” but not one of them foretold “the Joint-Body” of Ephesians 3:6.
If you will read Isaiah 43:5 to 7, Jeremiah 31:10 and Jeremiah 31:31 to 36 and Jeremiah 32:37 and 38, and Ezekiel 36:24, and Amos 9:11 to 15, you will learn that God is to have a “called-out” people, “an ekklesia,” after this present dispensation has been brought to an end. We quote Ezekiel 36:24 and Jeremiah 32:37 and 38.

“I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.”
“Behold I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine auger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely; And they shall be My people, and I will be their God.”
​

There is yet to be a great church in the land of Canaan.
THE UNPROPHESIED CHURCH

But now again note Colossians 1:24 to 26. “This was the Church of the Mystery.” By comparing this with Ephesians 3:1 to 11, we learn that any other “ekklesia” (church), in the Scriptures, was a church different from “the Church of the Mystery.” The prophets of Israel knew about the “ekklesia of God”; but they knew nothing about “the Body of Christ.” All during the days of Israel’s commonwealth and captivity “the Body of Christ” was God’s own unrevealed secret, not made known to the sons of men in other ages.
At last the Lord Jesus disclosed to the Apostle Paul the new Divine movement, called “the dispensation of the mystery.” Ephesians 3:9. “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God.” Here we see that God wants you and me to do the same thing.
Note Ephesians 1:9—“Having made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself.” God has made it known. God wants it made known.

AND HE KNEW HE KNEW HE DID NOT SAY CHURCH A SINGLE TIME.

That work was A RELIGIOUS ASSEMBLY. That is the same word He used for the RELIGIOUS ASSEMBLY of the Old Testament.

That Word TOOK ON THE meaning of CHURCH, about the 300 A.D.

Therefore the First Half of the ASSEMBLY that Christ has built, is the Old Testament Saints.

The Prophecy states that ISRAEL will have a covenent like ours when the Time of Gentiles is Fulfilled.

Jeremiah 31:33-34 (CSBBible)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] "Instead, this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days" — the LORD's declaration. "I will put my teaching within them and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
[SUP]34 [/SUP] No longer will one teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them" — this is the LORD's declaration. "For I will forgive their iniquity and never again remember their sin.

 

[BillG]

For those who have prayed, I thank you for the Prayers. I stroke that I have had, has been answered. Sure it takes me a little longer to proof and post, but it has been answered. I had a fear that it would stay like that, but the Lord made sure of that, I had the ability to posts here. Thanks Again.

And we are all thankful that your are back with us.
Farther we pray continual healing.
In Jesus name.

 

[Endoscopy]

DID JESUS STOPPED WORKING AFTER HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS (CHRIST’S FINISHED WORK ON THE CROSS)?

WHAT WORK WAS FINISHED ON THE CROSS?

DID CHRIST FINISHED HIS WORKS OF SALVATION BY DYING ON THE CROSS?

John 5:17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.”

...the reason the son of man appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. (1 john 3:8)

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Luke 24:44-49 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”



IS SALVATION “VOID OF WORKS” OR “ NOT BY WORKS (OF OURSELVES)?

ARE SERVANTS CONSIDERED WORKERS?

ARE PREACHERS,TEACHERS, EVANGELISTS, PASTORS, MINISTERS, ADMINISTRATORS ETC. CONSIDERED SERVANTS AND WORKERS OF GOD?
WHAT IF THEY ONLY HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS, THEN LOOK DOWN ON THE OTHER PARTS OF THE BODY IN HYPOCRISY AS IF THEY'RE THE ONLY LEGITIMATE PART OF IT? WILL THAT FAITH SAVE THEM?( 1corinthians chapter 12)

WE ARE GOD’S FELLOW WORKERS(1 cor 3:9)
SENT OUT TO HARVEST WHAT WE HAVE NOT WORKED FOR...THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE.

Luke 10:2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.

John 4:34-38 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. EVEN NOW the reaper draws his wages, EVEN NOW HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ I SENT YOU TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”

ARE THERE WORKS NEEDED TO BE DONE FOR SALVATION?

WE ARE TO SERVE IN THE WORKS OF THE GOSPEL WHICH IS THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.

1 Thessalonians 3:2,5 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and GOD’S FELLOW WORKER in SPREADING THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith, For this reason, when I could stand it no longer, I sent to find out about your faith. I was afraid that in some way the tempter might have tempted you and our efforts might have been USELESS.

Philippians 2:22 But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has SERVED WITH ME in the WORK OF THE GOSPEL.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:18 HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN does so to gain honor for himself, but HE WHO WORKS FOR THE HONOR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A MAN OF TRUTH; there is nothing false about him.

John 9:4-5 As long as it is day, “WE” MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM WHO SENT ME. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

BUT WE ARE NOT WORKING FOR OUR OWN SALVATION BUT FOR THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHOM HE IS THE SAVIOR (eph 5:23),
WHERE HE PUTS THOSE THAT ARE BEING SAVED AND ARE MADE PARTS OF HIS BODY FOR WORKS OF SERVICE.

Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, TO PREPARE GOD’S PEOPLE FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

Romans 12:4-8 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

THE TRUE MESSAGE OF THE CROSS IS SELFLESS LOVE.

GOD GAVE US HIS ONLY SON.
JESUS GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US.
WE OUGHT TO LAY DOWN OUR LIVES FOR OUR BROTHERS.

1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

Philippians 2:4 Each of you should look not only to your OWN INTERESTS, but also to the interests of OTHERS.

Philippians 2:21 For everyone looks out for HIS OWN INTERESTS, not those of Jesus Christ.

Colossians 3:12-17 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Galatians 6:2,10 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

2 Timothy 2:14-19 A Workman Approved by God Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against QUARRELING ABOUT WORDS; it is of no value, and ONLY RUINS THOSE WHO LISTEN. Do your best to present yourself to God as one APPROVED, a WORKMAN who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because THOSE WHO INDULGE IN IT WILL BECOME MORE AND MORE UNGODLY. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have WANDERED AWAY FROM THE TRUTH. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and THEY DESTROY THE FAITH OF SOME. Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord MUST TURN AWAY FROM WICKEDNESS.”

It is obvious to the casual observer that you ignore the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) method. Long and complicated therefore I and many others ignore these long complicated posts. You ignore that the longer the post the fewer people will read it. Especially when you post 2 or more of them in a row.

Try again keeping it short and simple.

 

[mailmandan]

No, I do not teach that.

What I say is salvation without works is not salvation. You can not separate works from salvation. What you can do is separate works from justification, but you can not separate works from salvation. As you yourself say, there is no such thing as a saved person who has no righteous works. This idiocy of claiming you can be saved without works must stop.

I never said that authentic faith in Christ is barren of works. Yet, good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrate evidence of genuine faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

There is a scripture which confirms your assertion above! "Faith without WORKS is DEAD!"

Which does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit) or that works are the source of life in faith, yet if someone claims to have faith yet they produce no works (James 2:14) then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.