When did Jesus know he was the Son of God?

[IamWhoIam]

There is scriptural evidence that while He was in His mothers womb He knew He was the Son of God.

And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: Luke 1:41

The incarnation of Jesus reveals Jesus was born with a divine nature and not a sin nature as we have. The scripture shows revelation and not information.

That was John leaping in Elizabeth womb.

 

[oldethennew]

Jesus wasn't aware of everything. He could not tell his disciples when he would return.

"But that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son of man, but the Father." Mark 13:32

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He tells when He wants to tell, and what, and 'that DAY', He chose NOT TO Tell because of
The Father's future 'daily-unfolding-plans, happening, right before their eyes,
and our eyes of today'...this is the 'end of the line'...

 

[IamWhoIam]

================================================== ==

He tells when He wants to tell, and what, and 'that DAY', He chose NOT TO Tell because of
The Father's future 'daily-unfolding-plans, happening, right before their eyes,
and our eyes of today'...this is the 'end of the line'...

end of the line, I've heard that before, hehe.
[video=youtube;ZMp8zgA2Zp8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMp8zgA2Zp8[/video]

 

[oldethennew]

yeah, and I'm 'learning how to play it'...

 

[IamWhoIam]

yeah, and I'm 'learning how to play it'...

Seriously? That's cool, what instrument?

 

[oldethennew]

Seriously? That's cool, what instrument?

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looks like you don't read us much, this is pink, and hub has been teaching me how to play
the 'harmonic' for several months, and this is one of my FAVORITES...

 

[ChristWhoLivesInMe]

====================================================

He tells when He wants to tell, and what, and 'that DAY', He chose NOT TO Tell because of
The Father's future 'daily-unfolding-plans, happening, right before their eyes,
and our eyes of today'...this is the 'end of the line'...

But that is not what that scripture says. Jesus didn't say I chose not to tell you. He says that He doesn't know when the day is either.

In John 5:19-20 Jesus says "that he does what the Father shows him."

If you have another scripture that says or indicates it was Jesus' choice to say and do as he pleased here on earth and not The Father's will, I would be happy to see it. Thanks.

 

[IamWhoIam]

================================================== =========

looks like you don't read us much, this is pink, and hub has been teaching me how to play
the 'harmonic' for several months, and this is one of my FAVORITES...

heres a vid with harmonica notes of that song,

[video=youtube;KylVplt9ebA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KylVplt9ebA[/video]

 

[IamWhoIam]

But that is not what that scripture says. Jesus didn't say I chose not to tell you. He says that He doesn't know when the day is either.

In John 5:19-20 Jesus says "that he does what the Father shows him."

If you have another scripture that says or indicates it was Jesus' choice to say and do as he pleased here on earth and not The Father's will, I would be happy to see it. Thanks.

There are a few times when Jesus chose not to say but let others say it for him, here's one account.

Luke 23:3
So Pilate asked Jesus, "Are you the king of the Jews?" "You have said so," Jesus replied

as well that being the first written words of the NT

 

[oldethennew]

thanks so much. I played along, but I really like the rendition where Paul, Willie, Roy, etc.
play it; seems like I can really get it going with that group...they seem to have a
real 'unity of hearts'...must be why we're drawn to it...

 

[IamWhoIam]

thanks so much. I played along, but I really like the rendition where Paul, Willie, Roy, etc.
play it; seems like I can really get it going with that group...they seem to have a
real 'unity of hearts'...must be why we're drawn to it...

That is perfectly quite ok, I understand the harmony thing, some have that harmony better than others, three that come to mind, God,Jesus,HolySpirit these three are the best at that,

 

[beta]

Christ, in his incarnation, did NOT seem to have all knowledge of all things.

Before I continue, I want to say this is all very weird, paradoxical stuff.
Discussing how the INFINITE God operated within the confines of a FINITE personage... this is probably the sort of thing we can understand some, or better, but never fully.
So if I point out some scriptural errors, or logic problems; it's only an effort to clarify and take the discussion deeper, not to ridicule anyone.




Can Christ "not know" anything?

When referring to Christ in the incarnation, Zi made the statement, "Never does he not know."

Well, at least that gets right to the heart of the matter.
Is there a time when Christ did NOT KNOW some things?
Yes.
In reality there WERE matters, which at certain times, Christ in his incarnate form did NOT KNOW.

Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Here Christ talks of his second coming, and says that he does NOT know the exact time of his return.

If he is God, and knows ALL things, how can he NOT KNOW anything?
It seems that when Christ took on the limitations of an earthly body, he had to take on some cognitive limitations as well.

In his human form he simply did NOT KNOW EVERYTHING.
This is very clear and factual in scripture.



If Christ did "not know" some things, then where exactly did his divine knowledge go, and did it go somewhere?

Well, it would seem his divine knowledge could not have completely disappeared, because Christ WAS GOD, and omniscience is a necessary attribute of being God. So if his omniscience completely disappeared, it would seem he would have ceased to be God during the incarnation.
So... it seems his omniscience must have gone "somewhere", rather than just disappearing.

So where did his divine omniscience go?
We don't really know where his divine knowledge went, but some theologians and philosophers have some ideas.

- One theory of how this worked was that some of his divine knowledge was "willingly hidden" from him for a time... in some way. As an earthly man I don't have any way to hide my own knowledge from myself... but maybe this is something Christ was able to do in the incarnate state.
- Another theory is that perhaps it was dormant within his earthly subconscious mind for a while, so that it was still there, but he wasn't able to access it.
- There are different ideas about WHERE exactly his divine knowledge went, or HOW it was hidden from him during the incarnation.

I certainly have no idea how it worked, but it does seem that something of this sort DID happen in some way.


How much did Christ know and not know during the incarnation?

We don't seem to know.

A. He did seem to have a lot of supernatural knowledge that could only be divine.
B. But he was also limited in some ways, so we can't say he had complete omniscience.


How much did he know and not know at different times, like when he was a baby, or a small child?

We don't seem to know.

We don't even know the scope of his divine knowledge when he was an adult, so we certainly can't understand too much about it when he was a child... a period in his life where the scripture is mostly silent.

A. We know that as an adult he had a great deal of divine knowledge
B. We know that he didn't have full omniscience... some of it seems to have been willingly hidden from himself.
C. We know that by the time he was 12 he seemed to know he was the Son Of God.
D. We don't know too much on the subject beyond this.
E. We don't really know how much he understood as a baby before his brain was developed, or if he understood anything at all... the scripture just doesn't say much about this.

I certainly can agree with all that and some of your other posts on this subject.
Going back to Jesus' Baby-stage and Infancy could it be that He simply...as a human being like ourselves....had to GROW in Spiritually knowing more and more in RELATION with His human ABilities ? After all...what is the point of having all knowledge if you are 'physically in no state' whatever ' to comply with any of it ?
However...as WE are SLOW to grow and comprehend HE would have developed MUCH faster so that by age 12 HE could teach even 'learned men.
Can you see how frustrating/mindblowing it would have been for Baby Jesus to know what was expected of Him and yet quite UNable physically to perform it ?

In Heb 5v8 we read that He even tho a Son...had to LEARN obedience. IF He had known that from birth or before He would have been obedient and not have had to Learn it....as is IMplied when He had to return home with His Parents.
What do you think ?

 

[mcubed]

When did Jesus know he was the Son of God? Given that he is sinless how was he sinless as a child growing up?

He is G-d so from birth.... I'm sure G-d did not recognize He is G-d even though, on Earth as a man, He set aside His attributes while keeping them ruling the UNIVERSE IN HEAVEN... NOW THAT IS SOMETHING TO PONDER!!!!!

 

[Zi]

He could have but a baby is still a baby physically. Needs parents, feed, changed etc. They are limited.

I don't understand how that was a good argument.

why did the Lord come to Joseph in a dream and tell him to take the child and mother to Egypt. and again after the death of Herod to bring the child back to Judah.

Jesus could of just crawled to Egypt, being all knowing and all when in the flesh.

 

[Zi]

That doesn't answer my question for me. I don't see how it does

Good question, and the answer is also found in Scripture.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. (Heb 10:5-9)

 

[Zi]

Maxwell, it's written that He doesn't know when the day is. It is not written that He wasn't aware of who He was as a small child.

I see that as a different thing altogether.

Theory, those are guesses and hardly an answer to stand on.

Christ, in his incarnation, did NOT seem to have all knowledge of all things.

Before I continue, I want to say this is all very weird, paradoxical stuff.
Discussing how the INFINITE God operated within the confines of a FINITE personage... this is probably the sort of thing we can understand some, or better, but never fully.
So if I point out some scriptural errors, or logic problems; it's only an effort to clarify and take the discussion deeper, not to ridicule anyone.




Can Christ "not know" anything?

When referring to Christ in the incarnation, Zi made the statement, "Never does he not know."

Well, at least that gets right to the heart of the matter.
Is there a time when Christ did NOT KNOW some things?
Yes.
In reality there WERE matters, which at certain times, Christ in his incarnate form did NOT KNOW.

Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Here Christ talks of his second coming, and says that he does NOT know the exact time of his return.

If he is God, and knows ALL things, how can he NOT KNOW anything?
It seems that when Christ took on the limitations of an earthly body, he had to take on some cognitive limitations as well.

In his human form he simply did NOT KNOW EVERYTHING.
This is very clear and factual in scripture.



If Christ did "not know" some things, then where exactly did his divine knowledge go, and did it go somewhere?

Well, it would seem his divine knowledge could not have completely disappeared, because Christ WAS GOD, and omniscience is a necessary attribute of being God. So if his omniscience completely disappeared, it would seem he would have ceased to be God during the incarnation.
So... it seems his omniscience must have gone "somewhere", rather than just disappearing.

So where did his divine omniscience go?
We don't really know where his divine knowledge went, but some theologians and philosophers have some ideas.

- One theory of how this worked was that some of his divine knowledge was "willingly hidden" from him for a time... in some way. As an earthly man I don't have any way to hide my own knowledge from myself... but maybe this is something Christ was able to do in the incarnate state.
- Another theory is that perhaps it was dormant within his earthly subconscious mind for a while, so that it was still there, but he wasn't able to access it.
- There are different ideas about WHERE exactly his divine knowledge went, or HOW it was hidden from him during the incarnation.

I certainly have no idea how it worked, but it does seem that something of this sort DID happen in some way.


How much did Christ know and not know during the incarnation?

We don't seem to know.

A. He did seem to have a lot of supernatural knowledge that could only be divine.
B. But he was also limited in some ways, so we can't say he had complete omniscience.


How much did he know and not know at different times, like when he was a baby, or a small child?

We don't seem to know.

We don't even know the scope of his divine knowledge when he was an adult, so we certainly can't understand too much about it when he was a child... a period in his life where the scripture is mostly silent.

A. We know that as an adult he had a great deal of divine knowledge
B. We know that he didn't have full omniscience... some of it seems to have been willingly hidden from himself.
C. We know that by the time he was 12 he seemed to know he was the Son Of God.
D. We don't know too much on the subject beyond this.
E. We don't really know how much he understood as a baby before his brain was developed, or if he understood anything at all... the scripture just doesn't say much about this.

 

[IamWhoIam]

He could have but a baby is still a baby physically. Needs parents, feed, changed etc. They are limited.

I don't understand how that was a good argument.

That was my point sounds crazy a baby crawling to Eypt, as well sounds crazy a new born baby would know how to change clothing, feed them selves, so yea Jesus was not all knowing when He was a baby.

 

[Zi]

But He never knew this answer. He was already in existence when He chose to come to earth. 2 different things..

Jesus wasn't aware of everything. He could not tell his disciples when he would return.

"But that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son of man, but the Father." Mark 13:32

 

[Zi]

Knowing and capable are different. He didn't defy natural laws. Otherwise why not be an adult

That was my point sounds crazy a baby crawling to Eypt, as well sounds crazy a new born baby would know how to change clothing, feed them selves, so yea Jesus was not all knowing when He was a baby.

 

[IamWhoIam]

Knowing and capable are different. He didn't defy natural laws. Otherwise why not be an adult

O I see Jesus knew his clothes needed changing but wasn't capable, well I think every baby knows they potty in their cloths.

did Jesus know the whole scripture when He was two months old,,, NO...