Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

He also said:



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 23:23, “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you tithe the mint and the anise and the cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the Torah: the right-ruling and the compassion and the belief. These need to have been done, without neglecting the others.”


[/FONT]

Does not matter....my point is proven....no salvation = in sin and lawless......end of story...their root problem is that they were lost, in sin and thinking that works in the name of Jesus is what punched their ticket....as do most religions today that name Christ

 

[Hizikyah]

'
You are confusing what "they" say wiuth why He says to get away:

Mat 7:21-23, “Not everyone who says to Me; Master! Master! will enter into the Kingdom of YHWH, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Master! Master! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practiceiniquity.”



“practice” is word #G2038 Strong's Concordance - ergazomai: I work, trade, do, Original Word: ἐργάζομαι, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: ergazomai, Phonetic Spelling: (er-gad'-zom-ahee), Short Definition: I work, trade, do, Definition: I work, trade, perform, do, practice, commit, acquire by labor.


“iniquity” is word #G458 Strong's Concordance - anomia, lawlessness, Short Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin

they claim to have works. He says get away beaucse they PRACTICE iniquity. Iniquity in Lawlessness. I suppose this is where you will tell me following the Law is actually Lawless and not following it is not Lawlessness.

Thats the carnal mind.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

But, we have the mind of Christ. No longer rebellious, for we are of another nature. Freed from iniquity.

Thats what dcontroversal said.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."[/FONT]


SO when I say guarding/seeking to follow His laws that is actually lawlessness? and calling me a pharisee is what now?

 

[Hizikyah]

'
You are confusing what "they" say wiuth why He says to get away:

Mat 7:21-23, “Not everyone who says to Me; Master! Master! will enter into the Kingdom of YHWH, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Master! Master! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practiceiniquity.”



“practice” is word #G2038 Strong's Concordance - ergazomai: I work, trade, do, Original Word: ἐργάζομαι, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: ergazomai, Phonetic Spelling: (er-gad'-zom-ahee), Short Definition: I work, trade, do, Definition: I work, trade, perform, do, practice, commit, acquire by labor.


“iniquity” is word #G458 Strong's Concordance - anomia, lawlessness, Short Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin

they claim to have works. He says get away beaucse they PRACTICE iniquity. Iniquity in Lawlessness. I suppose this is where you will tell me following the Law is actually Lawless and not following it is not Lawlessness.

Look Pharisee....I am not confusing anything..the facts are clear...he never knew them...they were never saved and their view was they should be allowed to enter based upon their works in his name...their problem was where they put their trust which = not saved which = being found in sin and lawless....wake up lawyer!

Wonderful name calling. But you ignored what Yahshua/Jesus said they practiced.

but the pharisee types actually did not teach YHWH's Law:

Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrinethe commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition."


1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Does not matter....my point is proven....no salvation = in sin and lawless......end of story...their root problem is that they were lost, in sin and thinking that works in the name of Jesus is what punched their ticket....as do most religions today that name Christ

So what does this part of the passage mean?

"Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello Hizikyah,

"[FONT=&quot]Have we not"

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The reason that the Lord is going to say "depart from me you who work lawlessness, is because they will have been trusting in their own works to enter into the kingdom of God, as demonstrated by their own words "did we not."

Believers do not enter into the kingdom of God by prophesying, driving out demons, performing miracles, abstaining from foods, observing the Sabbath, etc., etc. We inherit the kingdom of God by trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation for us, fully and completely.

Since they were not trusting in the Lord, then their sins are not covered and they are therefore still workers of sin. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

Hello Hizikyah,



[/I][/FONT][/COLOR]The reason that the Lord is going to say "depart from me you who work lawlessness, is because they will have been trusting in their own works to enter into the kingdom of God, as demonstrated by their own words "did we not."

Believers do not enter into the kingdom of God by prophesying, driving out demons, performing miracles, abstaining from foods, observing the Sabbath, etc., etc. We inherit the kingdom of God by trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation for us, fully and completely.

Since they were not trusting in the Lord, then their sins are not covered and they are therefore still workers of sin.

So what does this part of the passage mean?

"Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

 

[Hizikyah]

“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]iniquity” is word # G458 - anomia Strong's Concordance, lawlessness, Short Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."[/FONT]

 

[mailmandan]

Hello Hizikyah,

[/I][/FONT][/COLOR]The reason that the Lord is going to say "depart from me you who work lawlessness, is because they will have been trusting in their own works to enter into the kingdom of God, as demonstrated by their own words "did we not."

Believers do not enter into the kingdom of God by prophesying, driving out demons, performing miracles, abstaining from foods, observing the Sabbath, etc., etc. We inherit the kingdom of God by trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation for us, fully and completely.

Since they were not trusting in the Lord, then their sins are not covered and they are therefore still workers of sin.

Amen! You hit the nail on the head!

So what does this part of the passage mean?

"[FONT=&quot]Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity.[/FONT]"

1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Those who practice righteousness--children of God.

Those who practice sin/iniquity--children of the devil.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin and in the eyes of God, they remain workers of iniquity, as do all unbelievers whose sins are not covered by the blood of Christ.

 

[Ahwatukee]

So what does this part of the passage mean?

"Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

It means that since they will have been trusting in their own works to enter in to the kingdom, they will have not been trusting in Christ, which means that their sins were not covered by Christ, ergo, they will be guilty of breaking the law, because they're not having faith in Christ.

 

[Endoscopy]

Excuse me.

Romans 5:8-11 (NIV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Job 25:4-6 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] How can a person be justified before God? How can one born of woman be pure?
[SUP]5 [/SUP] If even the moon does not shine and the stars are not pure in His sight,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] how much less man, who is a maggot, and the son of man, who is a worm!
Romans 3:20-25 (ESV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
[SUP]22 [/SUP] the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]25 [/SUP] whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

Romans 3:28 (ASV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Romans 8:30 (CSBBible)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] And those he predestined, he also called; and those he called, he also justified; and those he justified, he also glorified.


Galatians 2:16-17 (CSBBible)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] and yet because we know that a person is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we ourselves have believed in Christ Jesus. This was so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But if we ourselves are also found to be "sinners" while seeking to be justified by Christ, is Christ then a promoter of sin? Absolutely not!

It is obvious that you fail to understand the point that was being made. After a person becomes a Christian they will be driven to do good things. But there is the conflict that Paul writes about in them.

Romans 7 New International Version (NIV)

Released From the Law, Bound to Christ
1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

The Law and Sin
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

 

[Ralph-]

..ALL genuine believers have WORKED THE WORKS OF THE HEAVENLY FATHER IN BELIEF....

Only those who have the life to prove it have done that.

....What works or type of works do the following saved have...

a. The Corinthian fornicator
b. Those whose works are wood, hay and stubble
c. The thief on the cross
d. The prodigal

We'll come back to this later today. If you're trusting that your disobedience is okay because of these people you're in for a big shock when Jesus comes back. We'll look at each one and compare them to the life in Christ you defend.

You can forget it.....the bible is clear....WHAT PART OF THE FOLLOWING DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ..

NOT BY WORKS OF RKGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, BUT ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HAS HE SAVED US... <--- past tense salvation not based upon works

You seem to be the one that is dense, not me, because this is not about being saved on the merit of works, but you keep bringing that up. It's about having works that show you trust in Jesus alone for the forgiveness of sin.

If you do not have the works that accompany salvation you will in the end be burned, not saved. Your life showing that you are not saved. Disobedience is the sign of the unbeliever, not the believer. You will not be saved when Jesus comes back if you have had no change and are still enslaved to sin. Slaves do not get the inheritance. Sons do. Still living your old life shows you are still a slave, not a son.

If you think working in the ministry, giving to the church, attending all services, being a deacon, being a greeter, praying, listening to sermons, witnessing, praising his Name will somehow make up for not obeying God in a changed life you will be lost when Jesus returns. That description is the modern Pharisee, not the people who are born again and have new lives of kindness, gentleness, and self control and don't violate the law as a result of that change of life. The modern Pharisee trusts in his service and is not obedient and will be rejected when Jesus comes back. The one who is NOT lawless because he is born again is the one Jesus is coming back for.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is required is faith. Even you say that faith WILL work, or else it's not really faith. That makes works required to be with your faith, or else it isn't real faith and you won't be saved when Jesus comes back. We knew that anyway. That's what the Bible says. People who don't have works of obedience when he comes back will not be saved. The Matthew 7 people will be turned away because they are lawless. The Hebrews 6 people will be burned because they are barren of fruit. And the Matthew 18 people will be burned up because they have no works of love for Jesus. But everyone on your side wants to say that is wrong and you do NOT need works with your faith to be saved when Jesus comes back.

You are not comprehending it at all.

Those people will not go to hell because they are lawless, or because they are barren of fruit or because they have no love for jesus.

They will go to hell because they did not believe. If they had faith, God would have changed them.

Again, He who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed, NOT because of the things you said.

 

[Endoscopy]

Only those who have the life to prove it have done that.



We'll come back to this later today. If you're trusting that your disobedience is okay because of these people you're in for a big shock when Jesus comes back. We'll look at each one and compare them to the life in Christ you defend.


You seem to be the one that is dense, not me, because this is not about being saved on the merit of works, but you keep bringing that up. It's about having works that show you trust in Jesus alone for the forgiveness of sin.

If you do not have the works that accompany salvation you will in the end be burned, not saved. Your life showing that you are not saved. Disobedience is the sign of the unbeliever, not the believer. You will not be saved when Jesus comes back if you have had no change and are still enslaved to sin. Slaves do not get the inheritance. Sons do. Still living your old life shows you are still a slave, not a son.

If you think working in the ministry, giving to the church, attending all services, being a deacon, being a greeter, praying, listening to sermons, witnessing, praising his Name will somehow make up for not obeying God in a changed life you will be lost when Jesus returns. That description is the modern Pharisee, not the people who are born again and have new lives of kindness, gentleness, and self control and don't violate the law as a result of that change of life. The modern Pharisee trusts in his service and is not obedient and will be rejected when Jesus comes back. The one who is NOT lawless because he is born again is the one Jesus is coming back for.

You ignore Romans 7.

Romans 7 New International Version (NIV)

Released From the Law, Bound to Christ
1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

The Law and Sin
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

 

[shrume]

If you do not have the works that accompany salvation you will in the end be burned, not saved.

1 Cor 3:
15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 Cor 3:
15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Amen

Sadly for people focused on works. And not Grace through faith. They can not see what is standing in front of them .Like the religious jews, they are blinded by their works.

 

[Gabriel2020]

These works are simply the works that are produced by the fruits of the spirit. indeed faith without works is dead. faith by itself ,if it does not have works is dead.

 

[Endoscopy]

Any works we do we have to understand that in the sight of God they are as dirty rags since God looks into our hearts and sees the different motives behind them. Our sin nature permeates everything we think, say, and do. Paul said this in Romans 7.

 

[Inquistor]

Ecc 3: 14- 14 I know that whatever God does, It shall be forever.
Nothing can be added to it, And nothing taken from it.
God does it, that men should fear before Him.

You have a problem with scripture?

Awesome! Wow ... that means we can ELIMINATE most versions of the bible, which have been CORRUPTED because of REMOVAL of words from scripture!


1 John 5:7 For there are three that testify:


"King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."


The blue words above are hyperlinks!

 

[Hizikyah]

Awesome! Wow ... that means we can ELIMINATE most versions of the bible, which have been CORRUPTED because of REMOVAL of words from scripture!


1 John 5:7 For there are three that testify:


"King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."


The blue words above are hyperlinks!

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Proper and original text from the 1[SUP]st [/SUP]century:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John/Yahanan 5:7-8, "For there are three which testify: The Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three are of one accord."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Altered text from the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] century:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John/Yahanan 5:7-8, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:7-8, “Because there are three who bear witness: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. And the three are in agreement."[/FONT]


‘[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Comma Johanneum’ or ‘the Heavenly Witnesses’ refers to a short clause in John 5:7-8 in the Latin Vulgate text which was transmitted since the Early Middle Ages. It was later included in the Textus Receptus (published in 1516) in support of trinity doctrine. The ‘comma’ does not appear in the older Greek text. The comma first appeared in the Vulgate manuscripts of the 9th century. The first Greek (Textus Receptus) manuscript that contains the comma dates from the 15th century. The comma is absent from the Ethiopiac, Aramaic, Syriac, Slavic, Armenian, Georgian, and Arabic translations of the Greek New Testament. The scholarly consensus is that that passage is a Latin corruption that entered the Greek manuscript tradition in some subsequent copies. As the ‘comma’ does not appear in the manuscript tradition of other languages. The ‘comma’ is displayed below in italics.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]v.7 Because there are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]v.8 And there are three that bear witness in earth the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. And the three are in agreement.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:7 Parallel Verses[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New International Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For there are three that testify:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New Living Translation[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So we have these three witnesses[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]English Standard Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For there are three that testify:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New American Standard Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For there are three that testify:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]King James Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Holman Christian Standard Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For there are three that testify:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]International Standard Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For there are three witnesses —[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]NET Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For there are three that testify,[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Aramaic Bible in Plain English[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And The Spirit testifies because The Spirit is the truth.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]GOD'S WORD® Translation[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]There are three witnesses:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jubilee Bible 2000[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]King James 2000 Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]American King James Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]American Standard Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Douay-Rheims Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Darby Bible Translation[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For they that bear witness are three:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]English Revised Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Webster's Bible Translation[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For there are three that bear testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Weymouth New Testament[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For there are three that give testimony, the Spirit, the water, and the blood;[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]World English Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For there are three who testify:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Young's Literal Translation[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these, the three, are one;[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Verses 5:7-8 -- In the King James Version and later renditions of the Latin Vulgate, the received Greek and Latin texts include the words: “ ...In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth... ”. This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any authentic Greek manuscript written earlier than the Fifteenth Century of this current era. It does not appear in any of the oldest Greek manuscripts; neither does it even appear in the earliest Latin translations. This text is not cited by any of the Greek or early Latin writers, even when the subject they wrote of would naturally have led them to appeal to its authority. The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, Page 803, The Jerusalem Bible, New Testament, Page 419. Other scholars and researchers have frankly admitted that these words are a deliberate forgery that was never a part of the original inspired Holy Scriptures.[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Kepha (Peter) 4:17-18 “For the time has come that judgment must begin at The House of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]; and if it first begins with us, what will the end be of those who do not obey the message of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]? And if the righteous are scarcely saved, where will the wicked and the sinner appear?”[/FONT]

 

[Inquistor]

Proper and original text from the 1[SUP]st [/SUP]century:


1 John/Yahanan 5:7-8, "For there are three which testify: The Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three are of one accord."


Altered text from the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] century:


1 John/Yahanan 5:7-8, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."


1 John 5:7-8, “Because there are three who bear witness: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. And the three are in agreement."


‘Comma Johanneum’ or ‘the Heavenly Witnesses’ refers to a short clause in John 5:7-8 in the Latin Vulgate text which was transmitted since the Early Middle Ages. It was later included in the Textus Receptus (published in 1516) in support of trinity doctrine. The ‘comma’ does not appear in the older Greek text. The comma first appeared in the Vulgate manuscripts of the 9th century. The first Greek (Textus Receptus) manuscript that contains the comma dates from the 15th century. The comma is absent from the Ethiopiac, Aramaic, Syriac, Slavic, Armenian, Georgian, and Arabic translations of the Greek New Testament. The scholarly consensus is that that passage is a Latin corruption that entered the Greek manuscript tradition in some subsequent copies. As the ‘comma’ does not appear in the manuscript tradition of other languages. The ‘comma’ is displayed below in italics.


v.7 Because there are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.


v.8And there are three that bear witness in earth the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. And the three are in agreement.


1 John 5:7 Parallel Verses


New International Version
For there are three that testify:


New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses


English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:


New American Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:


King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:


International Standard Version
For there are three witnesses —


NET Bible
For there are three that testify,


Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And The Spirit testifies because The Spirit is the truth.


GOD'S WORD® Translation
There are three witnesses:


Jubilee Bible 2000
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.


King James 2000 Bible
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.


American King James Version
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


American Standard Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.


Douay-Rheims Bible
And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.


Darby Bible Translation
For they that bear witness are three:


English Revised Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.


Webster's Bible Translation
For there are three that bear testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.


Weymouth New Testament
For there are three that give testimony, the Spirit, the water, and the blood;


World English Bible
For there are three who testify:


Young's Literal Translation
because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these, the three, are one;


Verses 5:7-8 -- In the King James Version and later renditions of the Latin Vulgate, the received Greek and Latin texts include the words: “ ...In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth... ”. This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any authentic Greek manuscript written earlier than the Fifteenth Century of this current era. It does not appear in any of the oldest Greek manuscripts; neither does it even appear in the earliest Latin translations. This text is not cited by any of the Greek or early Latin writers, even when the subject they wrote of would naturally have led them to appeal to its authority. The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, Page 803, The Jerusalem Bible, New Testament, Page 419. Other scholars and researchers have frankly admitted that these words are a deliberate forgery that was never a part of the original inspired Holy Scriptures.

A Case For the Authenticity of 1st John 5:7-8 - ...
www.jesus-is-savior.com/bible/1john57-exegesis.htm▼
The well-known anecdote says that Erasmus was criticized for omitting the Comma from his first and second editions. He argued that no Greek manuscripts contained the reading and supposedly challenged his critic, Edward Lee who charged him with being an Arian for omitting I John 5:7-8,to produce a manuscript with the ...