“Christalignment" heard of this?

[7seasrekeyed]

When I hear people saying what other believers understand is demonic, and they say these various preachers and people are working for Satan.... and when I have even heard some here call preachers they didn't like "demons.".... then "Yes" LETTING SEETHING HATRED DRILL DEEP INTO THEIR SOULS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN.

It goes far beyond just this one little thread. The eagerness to damn other believers has been going on with many people here for years. Many don't seem to even consider people who worship in strange and different ways to be human. I have heard them called everything BUT other human beings that God created and loves.

huh

well, you have a talk with God about that and ask Him about life before the flood

or are you one of those 'everybody gets saved in the end people?' I don't know, but you sure do seem to think sin is just an inconvenience when it is going to send people to an eternity without God

in all the time I have been here, I have never seen you defend anything with the passion you are working up to defend the goings on at Bethel

your views are so out of whack with what scripture teaches that I guess you have to make excuses for what you believe by accusing others of what you may actually suffer from yourself

you have mentionned hatred numerous times...no one else has

perhaps it is your own mind that has that problem

you never addressed the scriptures that tell us we can and should be able to discern what is and what is not of God

you just start accusing others of hating

you state we cannot know what is and what is not of God. but yet you can accuse others of hating

blah

 

[7seasrekeyed]

It goes far beyond just this one little thread. The eagerness to damn other believers has been going on with many people here for years. Many don't seem to even consider people who worship in strange and different ways to be human. I have heard them called everything BUT other human beings that God created and loves.

oh the humanity.....

 

[maxwel]

When I hear people saying what other believers understand is demonic, and they say these various preachers and people are working for Satan.... and when I have even heard some here call preachers they didn't like "demons.".... then "Yes" LETTING SEETHING HATRED DRILL DEEP INTO THEIR SOULS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN.

It goes far beyond just this one little thread. The eagerness to damn other believers has been going on with many people here for years. Many don't seem to even consider people who worship in strange and different ways to be human. I have heard them called everything BUT other human beings that God created and loves.

1. To throw out the phrase "seething hatred" in some general way, at a bunch of vague "stuff" out "there" somewhere, isn't a logical defense. The claim of "seething hatred" would need to be addressed to REAL posts so we can see if your claim is REAL and justified.

If you can't make a specific argument, then there really is no argument... without specificity, it's just hyperbole.


2. Even if there is "seething hatred", that isn't an actual rebuttal of anyone's argument.
A person's emotional state has NOTHING to do with the veracity of their argument... to refute their argument, you'd have to give a rebuttal of the CLAIMS of their argument.

 

[stonesoffire]

your post to someone else:





that is what I was addressing

you just keep flipping what you say

doesn't matter. I suppose if someone has the time, they can go back and read but they would have to be an insomniac

Its the post you wrote that i answered seven. No need to go back too far. I didn't flip anything. Your post however, is wrong.

Apparently you haven't been reading about all the ministers that have been caught in whatever they were doing wrong, andbthis has now spread to politicians, and Hollywood. It's my belief the church was being judged by Obamas being elected and our lack of prayer. We fell asleep and didn't realize the sinister plans being plotted. The call of If my people will humble themselves and pray went out.....the church began to wake up and we end up with a President who's turning our nation back to our spiritual roots.

The house of God is judged first according to scripture, then the world.

 

[Willie-T]

Ok, your scripture is exactly the point that Willie was making yesterday. He quoted Gamaliel, the Pharisee that taught Paul, and who was also thought by many to be a secret believer like Nicodemus. What if they were told to do this? Then all this discord is compared to fighting against the work of God.

If its not the Lord, He will deal with it. That's my point, and your scripture is saying the same. So you in a sense have backed both of us.

And who are you fearful of ending up in hell? Us? Or those who are ministering to new age people?

Ive had people say to me that using the 4 spiritual laws booklets are wrong too.

We all would be of more more benefit to this matter if we were praying about it and not debating one another.


Has anyone cared enough about their souls to pray for them?

Are you serious? Just read their words. In ALL this thread, there hasn't been even one hint of that. Yes, these are people God made, just like the haters ridiculing them, but they don't want to even think about praying for not only THEM, but also for their own attitudes toward them.

 

[Willie-T]

1. To throw out the phrase "seething hatred" in some general way, at a bunch of vague "stuff" out "there" somewhere, isn't a logical defense. The claim of "seething hatred" would need to be addressed to REAL posts so we can see if your claim is REAL and justified.

If you can't make a specific argument, then there really is no argument... without specificity, it's just hyperbole.


2. Even if there is "seething hatred", that isn't an actual rebuttal of anyone's argument.
A person's emotional state has NOTHING to do with the veracity of their argument... to refute their argument, you'd have to give a rebuttal of the CLAIMS of their argument.

I have said repeatedly, that I am not defending any of this stuff. I don't do it, and I don't go to their churches. You want to have yourself an argument? I get kind of tired of that Robert's Rules garbage you peddle. Go find a mirror and argue with yourself. From the first, my aim has been to get people to stop hating the people doing this strange stuff..... instead of acting like they are demons who flew up from Hell to infect the world. Contrary to what some here think, these people love God, and are worshiping Him in a way they feel honors Him.

 

[stonesoffire]

I was addressing Willie’s comments on Elijah and Elisha, and that any time you sit on a grave, expecting a similar anointing to what that person had, you are in fact speaking to the dead. I mean, why not just sit in the comfort of your own home, or your church and ask God for the anointing of CS Lewis, or Katherine Kulhman or Smith Wigglesworth? Surely you don’t have to travel thousands of miles to pray for God to give you these things. If in fact, that is what God actually wants for you life.

I assure you, if God has a plan for you, he will call, equip and enable you, without having to sit on someone’s grave to get it. There has to be a wrong belief in there, to believe that sitting on someone’s grave who is long since dead is going to give you any kind of anointing.

Really, it is just plain creepy to me!

I understand and your feelings Angela. I felt the same way when I heard Christians say that they wanted the spirit of Elijah, or they prayed over people to pass on their anointing.

I heard someone say that they suffered many trials and went through fire to get the anointing of Holy Spirit that they moved in, and someone else can't just take it for themselves without passing through the same.

I agree with this.

To me, these are like fads. And the body of Christ is made up of all who put their faith in the blood of Jesus. That hope? No one will ever be disappointed. But like Shrume said in a post, the rewards may not be many.

 

[maxwel]

I have said repeatedly, that I am not defending any of this stuff. I don't do it, and I don't go to their churches. You want to have yourself an argument? go find a mirror and argue with yourself. From the first, my aim has been to get people to stop hating the people doing this strange stuff..... instead of acting like they are demons who flew up from Hell to infect the world. Contrary to what some here think, these people love God, and are worshiping Him in a way they feel honors Him.

1. "I am not defending any of this stuff. I don't do it, and I don't go to their churches."

That works for me.

Sorry if I misunderstood you.


2. "these people love God, and are worshiping Him in a way they feel honors Him"

a. This statement contains two different presuppositions, and I'm not entirely sure we have evidence of either one, as they have to do with a person's heart and intentions.

b. However, if a person makes these CLAIMS of himself... the polite thing to do would be to take him at his word, and at least argue politely.

So I'm all for discussing this politely.


3. "You want to have yourself an argument? go find a mirror and argue with yourself."

Ok, this made me laugh.
Willie gets extra points for making me laugh.



Willie,
Thanks for clearing things up for me.
It seems we're not in too much disagreement here.

 

[posthuman]

Okay, I did some research

. . .

Apparently this is a ministry that evangelizes at New Age festivals with a booth and artistic cards that are clearly not tarot cards. You might question their methods but in no way is Bethel promoting the use of tarot cards here. As I suspected, Pulpit and Pen jumped to conclusions out of religious prejudice.

thanks for the research

sounds like a good business model they have going there,
approach people who use talismans, rituals and divining artifacts, and convince them that there are more powerful talismans, rituals and divining artifacts, that they can't get from any of their usual merchants. but - lucky day - you happen to know a supplier or, better yet, you happen to be one.

Paul did cast the spirit out of that slave girl who was following him & his company around saying they were bond-servants of Most High God, proclaiming salvation. it was true, what she said - and her masters were making no small amount of coin from her, it says, too. it says Paul was greatly annoyed - and that she was following them doing this for many days. i always wondered - why did Paul wait for many days before doing this? the patience. what was it for?

i wonder what happened to the girl, too.
made free - i hope

 

[posthuman]

Actually, I don't believe we Christians encourage one another enough. Perhaps we need a thread about that. If we can't find encouragement from one another, to whom can we turn?

here's one:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/89516-encouraging-scriptures.html

and another:

http://christianchat.com/christian-family-forum/157889-encourage-one-another-daily.html

and another:

http://christianchat.com/christian-singles-forum/154753-say-something-encouraging.html

from three different sections of the forum

they're not as popular as one might hope or expect but then one may hope for what shouldn't be expected, or expect what is hoped for

 

[heartofdavid]

yeah, because articles can be biased I went to the source....Christalignment - About and so should you.

I then googled the Hodges and saw their Facebook pages and found a very recent video of ole Bill Johnson praising them for going to the dark places to shine the light using their cards, etc.

The issue you and several seem to have is the inability to understand that discernment is not judgement and the charismatic stupidity of not calling out anyone for fear of passing judgement is how people like Bill Johnson and the rest his NAR machine in business and I do mean and intentionally use the word "business"

Since charasmatics are automatically demons,are baptists automatically westbourogh haters tormenting funeral processions?

 

[heartofdavid]

I read through this thread,trying to learn what was really going on.

Bethal apparently separated themselves from. The card reading,and someone else said the card thingy was at some festval in answer to new agers tarot card booth.

Time will tell if there is a real boggy man in the tool shed.

 

[heartofdavid]

Any seasoned saint has learned to spit out the bones.

Every denomination has maverick heretics.

Mine,charismatic,has plenty.

So does yours.

 

[heartofdavid]

Most of the heresy hunter energy originates from Hank hanegraff.

A extortioner and plagerist.

Fitting how poetic justice finds its mark.

 

[Willie-T]

Most of the heresy hunter energy originates from Hank hanegraff.

A extortioner and plagerist.

Fitting how poetic justice finds its mark.

I have to work really hard to look at the confusion and bondage he is in, without doing just what I rail against.... making it a personal vendetta against him as a person. I hope God keeps working with me on that sick piece of my soul.

 

[Willie-T]

1. "I am not defending any of this stuff. I don't do it, and I don't go to their churches."

That works for me.

Sorry if I misunderstood you.


2. "these people love God, and are worshiping Him in a way they feel honors Him"

a. This statement contains two different presuppositions, and I'm not entirely sure we have evidence of either one, as they have to do with a person's heart and intentions.

b. However, if a person makes these CLAIMS of himself... the polite thing to do would be to take him at his word, and at least argue politely.

So I'm all for discussing this politely.


3. "You want to have yourself an argument? go find a mirror and argue with yourself."
Ok, this made me laugh.
Willie gets extra points for making me laugh.

Willie,
Thanks for clearing things up for me.
It seems we're not in too much disagreement here.

Thank you for the kind post. And I want to apologize for the shot about the rules of argument. It has been a rough few days around here... a cousin who helped raise me just died, and it hurts. I miss him so.

But, I WAS a bit serious about that stuff. I began debating in 5th grade with the 4-H club, graduated to DeMolays, and spent multiple hours in Debate Classes...... to the point that I now see most of it as just so much baloney that seems to only be good for turning out lawyers and politicians.

 

[Willie-T]

I understand and your feelings Angela. I felt the same way when I heard Christians say that they wanted the spirit of Elijah, or they prayed over people to pass on their anointing.

I heard someone say that they suffered many trials and went through fire to get the anointing of Holy Spirit that they moved in, and someone else can't just take it for themselves without passing through the same.

I agree with this.

To me, these are like fads. And the body of Christ is made up of all who put their faith in the blood of Jesus. That hope? No one will ever be disappointed. But like Shrume said in a post, the rewards may not be many.

You put me immediately in mind of the workers who had invested a full day of labor, and were miffed that so many others didn't have to work just as hard as they did to receive the same pay.

 

[stonesoffire]

My condolences Willie. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you in great measure.

 

[stonesoffire]

You put me immediately in mind of the workers who had invested a full day of labor, and were miffed that so many others didn't have to work just as hard as they did to receive the same pay.

I dont know Willie if that parable would apply in this case. I always thought this had to do with salvation freely given. The anointing is Holy Spirit Himself, isn't that right?

And wouldn't one have to overcome much in their life for the anointing to increase? We all get a measure, and that measure in the beginning would be the same. So for increase it takes much time in the presence of the Lord?

Thats why I would agree. Not everyone is willing or even able to do this.

Do you see something differently?

 

[Speak2Me]

If its not the Lord, He will deal with it.

Oh, He is, He is dealing with it. It's right here in the Bible:

2 Thessalonians 2​

7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Even right now they can't see, for God has shut their eyes & understanding. Arguing with them is useless.

What we CAN do is post the truth to the readers, because, after all, that's what they're doing.

What would happen to CC if only the false doctrines reigned? CC would end up being a channel of the delusion itself, instead of sharing the gospel truth.

Something to think about there.