Not By Works

VCO · Dec 23, 2017

Have you noticed how many myths there are about the Magi?

1.

They always say the "three" wise men. No where in the Bible does it say there were only three of them. In fact, historical accounts of the Magi, show they usually traveled in groups of a dozen or more, and always brought a detachment of at least a 100 of their best soldiers, known to be the fiercest in the mid-east.

2.

One of our songs even says "We Three Kings". The Magi were not Kings, but you may say they were "King Makers". The tribe of Magi, were traditionally called upon to conduct the Coronation Ceremony of a new King in most of the mid-east Countries at the time of Christ's birth.

3.

The most probable reason for the "three" wise men myth, is they bore three types of gifts: Gold, Frankincense, and Myrrh. Now contrary to the myth, these were not "Happy Birthday Gifts", these were the traditional Homage gifts that were brought to every new King."

4.

Nearly every modern day picture of the wise men, shows them riding camels. Yet another myth, because no where in the Bible does it say they rode camels. In fact, historians tell us that one of the major sources of income for the tribe of Magi, was from the sale of Arabian horses to kingdoms for use a war horses. Now why would a tribe that are big time horse traders, ride camels?

5.

Our cute Christmas cards picture the Magi at the manger with the Shepherds, yet another myth. Mt. 2:11, makes it clear that by the time the Magi arrived in Bethlehem, Mary and Joseph were living in a house. Most likely Joseph being a carpenter, built the house, after moving to Bethlehem some time after the birth of Jesus. Why would he move there, two reasons? One,he noticed that there was a shortage of housing, which means lots of work for a carpenter. Two,the Romans could call for another census any time they wanted, so why pack up and travel back to Bethlehem every time the Romans called for a new census.

6.

While the account in the Bible does not put the Magi at the manger, many still think they arrived shortly after the birth. Again Mt 2:11, refers to Him as "young child", not baby. Also in Mt. 2:7, we see Herod asking how long ago they first saw the Star. Then after the Magi tell him and head to Bethlehem, Herod orders his palace guard to go kill every male child two years old and under. That is a clear indication that the Magi told him that they had first saw the star, two years ago. Why did it take them so long to get from northeastern Iraq to Jerusalem? They had to travel from village to village throughout their territory, collecting the Homage for the new king.

7.

Many people believe that the Magi, because they studied the astrology of their day; "read it in the stars" and thereby knew of the birth of Jesus. Yet another myth. Do you remember the story of Daniel explaining Nebuchadnezzar's dream? What was Daniel's reward for doing what the wise men (Magi) could not? Nebuchadnezzar made Daniel "chief" over all the wise men, Dan. 2:48. Now you know Daniel was not about to teach them astrology, instead Daniel would have been teaching them prophecy, including the prophecies of the Messiah. The Magi remembered and taught what Daniel had taught them, from generation to generation; while Israel forgot.

While most people, cannot understand why Herod over-reacted so much. We need only to look at the scene Herod saw as the Magi rode up. Suddenly outside the palace is the noise of over a hundred horses. When Herod looks out, "Oh NO!" it is the Magi, and at least a hundred of their elite guard, to protect the Homage. The magi are looking for the new King, which makes Herod the old King. "They have the Homage with them, and they are prepared to remove me, and crown Him!" Herod only has his palace guard, as Israel was at war at that time and the army is no where near Jerusalem. The palace guard is no match for a detachment of Magi warriors. "What do I do, what do I do?", runs through Herod's mind. Then he schemes to pretend to want to come worship the new King too, so that the Magi will tell him what they know about the new King. Now we can see it as it was. Herod out of fear of being replaced, orders his palace guard to kill all two year old and below males in and around Bethlehem.

As Paul Harvey would have said on his radio program of the past,

"And Now, you know the rest of the Story."

Hizikyah · Dec 23, 2017

loveme1 said:

It is constant misapplication and presupposed accusations made at an attempt to slander IMO.

Hizikyah · Dec 23, 2017

Hizikyah said:

preacher4truth said:

SO I must stand in you court and defend myself against false accusations, so false that not a single quote can be made of mine that would even suggest what is falsely spoken of me?

zone said:

Zone we have spoken before on many accasions, I know your style.

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Romans 6:16, "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?"

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."

1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."

None are pefect all have sinned myself included., I am not my own savior, my works are not perfect, my savior is Yah, as I need mercy, thanks be to Yahshua for what He has done in love for His people.

I guess that means anytrying to live like Yah wants is self justification right? and the only way to be saved is to never try to do what Yah wants?

NO. There is not only, I have sinned so I must continuse to never sepak for what is morally right and must never seek to sdo what is morally right and self justification. However many here would paint the picture that anyone that says we should do as Messiah taught is so so so bad and self jutified, sinless, etc. IT IS NONSENSE.

Psalm 37:1-5, “Do not fret because of evil-doers, Do not be envious of the workers of unrighteousness. For they soon wither like grass, And fade like green plants. Trust in יהוה, and do right; Dwell in the earth, and feed on faithfulness. And delight yourself in יהוה, And let Him give you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to יהוה, And trust in Him, and He does it.”

Ephesians 2:10, “For we are his workmanship, created in Messiah Yahshua for right works, which Yah prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

Hebrews 10:23-24, “Let us hold fast the confession of our expectation without yielding, for He who promised is trustworthy. And let us be concerned for one another in order to stir up love and right works,”

Ephesians 2:8-10, “For by favor you have been saved, through belief, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of Elohim, it is not by works, so that no one should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Messiah יהושע unto right works, which Elohim prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”

1 Thessalonians 4:8-11, "4:8, "Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but Elohim, who also gives us His Set-apart Spirit."4:9, "And it is not necessary to write to you about brotherly love, for you yourselves are taught by Elohim to love one another,"4:10, "for, in fact, you do so toward all the brothers who are in all Makedonia. But we call upon you, brothers, that you do so more and more,"4:11, "and to make it your ambition to live peaceably, and to attend to your own, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you,"

Romans 2:6-10, “He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does right, the Jew first and also the Greek.”

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Mat 22:37-40, “Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Zechariah 7:11-13, "But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which YHWH of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from YHWH of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says YHWH of hosts!"

Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Romans 2:15, "Who show the work of the Torah (Instructions/Law) written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing (condemming sin) or even excusing (justifying sin)."

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah (Instructions/Law): do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their reviling.”

John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."

Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”

Matthew 13:24-30, “Another parable He put before them, saying, “The reign of the heavens has become like a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed darnel (tares) among the wheat and went away. And when the blade sprouted and bore fruit, then the darnel (tares) also appeared. And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? From where then does it have the darnel (tares)?’ And he said to them, ‘A man, an enemy did this.’ And the servants said to him, ‘Do you wish then, that we go and gather them up?’ But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the darnel (tares) you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I shall say to the reapers, “First gather the darnel and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my granary.”

John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”

Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”

Malachi 3:14-18, “You have said, ‘It is worthless to serve Yah. And what did we gain when we guarded His Charge, and when we walked as mourners before יהוה of hosts? And now we are calling the proud blessed – not only are the doers of wrongness built up, but they also try Yah and escape. Then shall those who fear יהוה speak to one another, and יהוה listens and hears, and a book of remembrance be written before Him, of those who fear יהוה, and those who think upon His Name. And they shall be Mine,” said יהוה of hosts, “on the day that I prepare a treasured possession. And I shall spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you shall again see the difference between the righteous and the wrong, between one who serves Yah and one who does not serve Him."

Bottom line I think many have such a soothsayer doctrine that any verses showing accountibility, required obedience or us being responsible for our actions and many people say bad things about you. However it is written.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”[/FONT]

Hizikyah · Dec 23, 2017

Why do believers need to repent?

Hizikyah said:

Romans 2:4-15, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that יהוה’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of יהוה’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of יהוה will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath. Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with יהוה. For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before Yah, but the doers of the Law will be justified. For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them.”

Luke 11:28, But He said, “Blessed rather are those hearing the Word of Yah and watching over it!”

Luke 8:21, “And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Yah and doing it.”

Matthew 12:50, “For whoever does the desire of My Father who is in the heavens is My brother and sister and mother.”

John/Yahanan 6:27, John 6:27, “Do not labor for the food that is perishing, but for the food that is remaining to everlasting life, which the Son of Aḏam shall give you, for the Father, Yah, has set His seal on Him.”

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 –poimén)."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Studyman · Dec 23, 2017

Well although that is the prevailing winds of doctrine today, it isn't accurate according to scripture. Abraham was considered righteous by God. Was this for obeying His Instructions or disobeying them. The same for Noah. The same for Caleb, Joshua.

In fact in EVERY example of a righteous person in the Bible, there is one thing they all have in common. They followed the instructions of God as best they could. They didn't create images of God in the likeness of man. They didn't create High Days or man made "Feasts unto the Lord", they didn't erase, amend, destroy, alter or otherwise ignore any of God's Instructions. Some slipped in sin and paid a great price for their rebellion, but even then these examples of righteousness humbled themselves and returned to God.

Given this was actually Jesus before becoming a man who instituted these instructions, and it was Jesus after becoming a man that inspired their stories to be used as an example of how we are to act, how can you say their effort was in vain?

And when God comes back for Abraham and Caleb, will He complete their perfection so they will be like Him? So if their end result is perfection because they trusted in God and His instruction, how can you say they are not perfect? And if God completes their perfection as it is written, how can the "many" who come in Christ's name, preach that it was their "work" that made them perfect on not God's?

Jer. 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Food for thought

Studyman · Dec 23, 2017

mailmandan said:

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

I find it fascinating that you can preach you are free to create images of God in the likeness of a long haired men's hair shampoo model, create your own "Feasts unto the Lord" in worship of this image, create your own Sabbaths, your own salvation plan that ends with Passover, and doesn't begin with Passover as Jesus' Salvation plan does, on and on and on, and you are blameless, yet these new church members who broke one simple Commandment of God were destroyed.

Fascinating Dan.

dcontroversal · Dec 23, 2017

Ralph- said:

You can't use him to defend being a lawless fornicator and still being saved when Jesus comes back because Paul said his flesh had to die in order for him to be saved. And we know that happened. He repented. He did not die physically. He died to the flesh and now he will be saved when Jesus returns. So you can't use him as proof that you do not have to have works and you will still be saved. He repented and had works of righteousness.

It's impossible that the works in 1 Corinthians 3 that are burned up when Jesus comes back, while the person who did those works will be saved, are the lawless works of adultery, fornication, idolatry, theft, drunkenness, and so on. We know that because 3 chapters later he says those who live lives like that will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. They will NOT be saved when Jesus comes back. So we know that the works Paul is talking about that get burned up while the person is saved can not be works of lawless disobedience. He has to be talking about other works, works of service, or else he contradicts his own teaching in the same letter in chapter 6.

He did not deny Christ in his suffering. He did nothing or said nothing to deny Him. He will be saved at the return of Christ and will get a new body that will live forever and never die, not be thrown into the furnace. He is an overcomer. You can not use him to defend living in sin and still being saved at the return of Christ because he did not sin. He was faithful to the very end. The person who says they believe but stays in their lawless life of sin is not being like he was. They will not be saved. Their lawlessness being the proof they do not know Christ. No proof here that unchanged people will be saved when Jesus comes back. He was changed. His life showed that. No comparison possible.

He repented. You can't use him as the reason why people who say they believe but who don't repent will still be saved when Jesus comes back because he repented, they didn't.

So if you're looking for Biblical proof that you can live your old unchanged life and still be saved you need to keep looking.

Fran.....show where it states he repented...you can't and NONE of my cited examples had works that were righteous....you can push your lie all day and it will not make it right.

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, BUT ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HAS HE SAVED US......

THIS ONE VERSE ALONE proves your works based dogma a lie and false!

dcontroversal · Dec 23, 2017

Ralph- said:

Therefore we conclude a man is JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITHOUT WORKS....PAUL, who was inspired disagrees with your "how we know we are justified" pretzle twist Fran.....

Ralph- · Dec 23, 2017

Ralph- said:

Sorry. Left out an important word. The veiled mind can't comprehend how the law is NOT a means of justification.

The veiled mind is not the mind that upholds the law out of gratitude for being justified through the forgiveness of sin. In fact, that upholding of the law is the proof that one has been justified by faith in God's forgiveness apart from works of the law. People who are trying to be justified by the law CAN'T keep the law. Disobedience is actually the sign of not being in Christ, not obedience as is being put forth here in this thread.

shrume · Dec 23, 2017

VCO said:

While most of your points are accurate, this one (#7) falls short. You are correct that Daniel did not teach them astrology, but he did teach them biblical astronomy. The two are not the same thing. Astronomy is legit, astrology is the devil's counterfeit.

Matt 2:
2) Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

God placed the stars in the heavens for "signs and seasons".

Gen 1:
14) And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

God's word is written in the stars.

Ps 19:
1) The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2) Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

We today have lost much of that knowledge, but Daniel knew it, taught the Magi, who remembered it, and were looking for it.

A couple of good resources on the subject are Bullinger's "Witness of the Stars" and E.L. Martin's "The Star that Astonished the World".

dcontroversal · Dec 23, 2017

VCO said:

Have you noticed how many myths there are about the Magi?

1.

They always say the "three" wise men. No where in the Bible does it say there were only three of them. In fact, historical accounts of the Magi, show they usually traveled in groups of a dozen or more, and always brought a detachment of at least a 100 of their best soldiers, known to be the fiercest in the mid-east.

2.

One of our songs even says "We Three Kings". The Magi were not Kings, but you may say they were "King Makers". The tribe of Magi, were traditionally called upon to conduct the Coronation Ceremony of a new King in most of the mid-east Countries at the time of Christ's birth.

3.

The most probable reason for the "three" wise men myth, is they bore three types of gifts: Gold, Frankincense, and Myrrh. Now contrary to the myth, these were not "Happy Birthday Gifts", these were the traditional Homage gifts that were brought to every new King."

4.

Nearly every modern day picture of the wise men, shows them riding camels. Yet another myth, because no where in the Bible does it say they rode camels. In fact, historians tell us that one of the major sources of income for the tribe of Magi, was from the sale of Arabian horses to kingdoms for use a war horses. Now why would a tribe that are big time horse traders, ride camels?

5.

Our cute Christmas cards picture the Magi at the manger with the Shepherds, yet another myth. Mt. 2:11, makes it clear that by the time the Magi arrived in Bethlehem, Mary and Joseph were living in a house. Most likely Joseph being a carpenter, built the house, after moving to Bethlehem some time after the birth of Jesus. Why would he move there, two reasons? One,he noticed that there was a shortage of housing, which means lots of work for a carpenter. Two,the Romans could call for another census any time they wanted, so why pack up and travel back to Bethlehem every time the Romans called for a new census.

6.

While the account in the Bible does not put the Magi at the manger, many still think they arrived shortly after the birth. Again Mt 2:11, refers to Him as "young child", not baby. Also in Mt. 2:7, we see Herod asking how long ago they first saw the Star. Then after the Magi tell him and head to Bethlehem, Herod orders his palace guard to go kill every male child two years old and under. That is a clear indication that the Magi told him that they had first saw the star, two years ago. Why did it take them so long to get from northeastern Iraq to Jerusalem? They had to travel from village to village throughout their territory, collecting the Homage for the new king.

7.

Many people believe that the Magi, because they studied the astrology of their day; "read it in the stars" and thereby knew of the birth of Jesus. Yet another myth. Do you remember the story of Daniel explaining Nebuchadnezzar's dream? What was Daniel's reward for doing what the wise men (Magi) could not? Nebuchadnezzar made Daniel "chief" over all the wise men, Dan. 2:48. Now you know Daniel was not about to teach them astrology, instead Daniel would have been teaching them prophecy, including the prophecies of the Messiah. The Magi remembered and taught what Daniel had taught them, from generation to generation; while Israel forgot.

While most people, cannot understand why Herod over-reacted so much. We need only to look at the scene Herod saw as the Magi rode up. Suddenly outside the palace is the noise of over a hundred horses. When Herod looks out, "Oh NO!" it is the Magi, and at least a hundred of their elite guard, to protect the Homage. The magi are looking for the new King, which makes Herod the old King. "They have the Homage with them, and they are prepared to remove me, and crown Him!" Herod only has his palace guard, as Israel was at war at that time and the army is no where near Jerusalem. The palace guard is no match for a detachment of Magi warriors. "What do I do, what do I do?", runs through Herod's mind. Then he schemes to pretend to want to come worship the new King too, so that the Magi will tell him what they know about the new King. Now we can see it as it was. Herod out of fear of being replaced, orders his palace guard to kill all two year old and below males in and around Bethlehem.

As Paul Harvey would have said on his radio program of the past,

"And Now, you know the rest of the Story."

Kind if like that stanza and verse....On that bright and CLOUDLESS morning when the dead in Christ will rise.....My bible states that Jesus comes with the clouds of heaven....not on a bright and cloudless day.......

Ralph- · Dec 23, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Quote the exact part where you think I said a person is justified by works. The exact part. In any of my posts.

dcontroversal · Dec 23, 2017

I see the workers for and laywers in delusion think they actually keep the law.......none keep it....in order to say you keep the law you must have kept it your whole life 24/7/365 without breaking one jot ot tittle...if not your a law breaker......so....the law deems guilt because NONE KEEP IT.....the delusion of thinking one keeps it and is righteous or justified is ignorant....

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by FAITH WITHOUT WORKS (the idication and context is the law) wake up deceived ones!

dcontroversal · Dec 23, 2017

zone said:

Good luck Zone.......he never answers or rarely answers a direct question, but rather will post a wall of text about the law even though no one keeps it and it condemns all and is for the LAWLESS <--THOSE NOT IN CHRIST BY FAITH!

Seohce · Dec 23, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Are you a sinner, YES OR NO? Does obedience to God's laws and commands which are written in the scriptures make you sick, YES OR NO? Do you not divide what God made as one new man/creation(romans 9:4-5 & ephesians 2:11-22)?

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:17-18 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:

Matthew 19:6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

Hizikyah · Dec 23, 2017

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 7:16-17, "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."[/FONT]

dcontroversal · Dec 23, 2017

Seohce said:

Look at the above plethora of scripture lacking context and blending at least 2 or 3 different contexts into one meaning....man you are a walking talking contradiction when it comes to the word of God ...........geesh!

Seohce · Dec 23, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 3:34-36 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”

New International Version 1984 John 14:15-24 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

John 12:44-50 Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

1 Corinthians 2:10-16 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment: “For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

John 8:47 HE WHO BELONGS TO GOD HEARS WHAT GOD SAYS. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

dcontroversal · Dec 23, 2017

Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for all that believe.......thank God......Believe in and acknowledge Christ = Saved, justified, sanctified and sealed for eternity........

VCO · Dec 23, 2017

shrume said:

No, Daniel taught the Old Testament prophesys of the MESSIAH. I assume you thought all of the conversation were in the BIBLE. They were NOT, and here is proof.

John 21:24-25 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which, if they were written one by one, I suppose not even the world itself could contain the books that would be written.

We only have the Highlights in our Bibles. SO HE WOULD HAVE TAUGHT THE PROPHESYS ABOUT THE MESSIAH TO THEM.

They were STUDENTS of anything that was considered WISDOM, so they would have learned eagerly.

Not By Works

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