Not By Works

homwardbound · Dec 24, 2017

Father knows, who are real in belief not me, and Father will bring each of his up to maturity as said in Romans 14:4, so I refrain from judging anyone as if they are saved or not or on their way to be, I do not know
New life is given and is a process to come to see it clearly, as it is only Father who reveals it or not to each personally or not, according to his sovereign righteousness.

James 4:1-6, tells me this, Romans 9:15, and many more scriptures that present Father's love to us all to respond to in thanksgiving and praise or not with all sin today taken out of the way by Son on the cross

Works are involved, but not any of our own, it is all God's, and none of me, but to be his water glass vessel for him to use me, fill me and overflow me onto the crowd at hand in his Mercy given by Son for us all at the cross of his love.

Hypocrite is one that speaks out of two sides of his mouth
[FONT=&quot]Matthew 15:8[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.[/FONT]

Studyman · Dec 24, 2017

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Gen. 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Gen. 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Num. 14:24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

Heb. 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Many men have chosen God/Jesus over their own traditions and beliefs. And God was pleased with them.

TruthTalk · Dec 24, 2017

[video=youtube;sSEcU-liGDs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSEcU-liGDs[/video]

"The reason for the season"

preacher4truth · Dec 24, 2017

Ralph- said:

There you go again, assuming what others believe, what their spiritual condition is &c.

Let me tell you something that you're completely missing while you judge, and yes, condemn others:

You need to examine your own self. All you are doing is examining all others, while arrogantly thinking you're the only person right with God.

For the record I've never met a person who came across as self-righteous as you in the testimony of Scripture that was converted. You have zero humility.

See? And there you go again with your judgmental attitude. You don't feel good about yourself unless you erect a straw man about other people and accuse them of living in sin, being a hypocrite, being false brothers, having no intention of being like Christ, having false modesty and being pretenders.

But not you of course, it is only that all others are lost and fake. We get it, Christ hasn't transformed or saved anyone but you.

And I don't know if you're like those you accuse or not. As far as from factual evidence you're exactly the persona revealed in Luke 18:9-11.

Fitting. Many others want want you to grow up too and wish you would.

Ralph- · Dec 24, 2017

Ralph- said:

homwardbound said:

Thank you 4 responding.

Ralph- · Dec 24, 2017

preacher4truth said:

Relax. You're exaggerating. This is about people thinking they'll be saved when Jesus comes back even though they are still living unchanged in their old lives. Romans 8, Hebrews 6, Matthew 25, James 2, 1 John 3, and Matthew 7 say NO. So stop defending what the Bible does not defend. And stop calling me self righteous because I do.

Hizikyah · Dec 24, 2017

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]

dcontroversal · Dec 24, 2017

Hizikyah said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]We can not earn Salvation by only obedience to the Law of the Creator, as James said and as Yahshua Himself said it takes faith and works. Romans 10:4 is a verses mistranslated in the majority of Bibles thus blurring the lines of truth. Christ is not “the end of the Law” but rather Yahshua showed the intent, ultimate result or goal (telos) of keeping the Law of YHWH.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The word translated “end” is word#G5056, τέλος, telos, tel'-os[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Lets look at places this word is used in the Konie Greek originals to get an idea of it meaning and context;[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith – the salvation of your souls."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away or at an end in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away or at an end in 1 Peter 1:9. Unless of course “telos” means the goal.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #G5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 5:11, “Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 5:11, “See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyoḇ and saw the purpose (telos) of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.”[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end (telos) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the goal (telos) of this command is love from a clean heart, from a good conscience and a sincere belief.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:22, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end (telos) everlasting life.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:22, “But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Yah, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the goal (telos); everlasting life.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law…[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of our instruction/command is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*goal is word #G5056 télos - Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.[/FONT]

No man can earn salvation by anything other than faith into Jesus...and no man embellishes salvation with anything........including law and obedience.....

stonesoffire · Dec 24, 2017

Only His precious blood sacrifice for all the world. His work! And our sabbath in Him.

Seohce · Dec 24, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Matthew 19:16-26 The Rich Young Man Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do TO GET ETERNAL LIFE?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be PERFECT, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, FOLLOW ME.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but WITH God all things are possible.”

1 John 4:1 Test the Spirits Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

stonesoffire · Dec 24, 2017

Seohce said:

Matthew 19:16-26 The Rich Young Man Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do TO GET ETERNAL LIFE?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be PERFECT, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, FOLLOW ME.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but WITH God all things are possible.”

1 John 4:1 Test the Spirits Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

You stopped too soon.

Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Let His Light Shine!

Hizikyah · Dec 24, 2017

Hizikyah said:

We can not earn Salvation by only obedience to the Law of the Creator, as James said and as Yahshua Himself said it takes faith and works. Romans 10:4 is a verses mistranslated in the majority of Bibles thus blurring the lines of truth. Christ is not “the end of the Law” but rather Yahshua showed the intent, ultimate result or goal (telos) of keeping the Law of YHWH.

The word translated “end” is word#G5056, τέλος, telos, tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

Lets look at places this word is used in the Konie Greek originals to get an idea of it meaning and context;

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Peter 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith – the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away or at an end in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away or at an end in 1 Peter 1:9. Unless of course “telos” means the goal.

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #G5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

James 5:11, “Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.”

James 5:11, “See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyoḇ and saw the purpose(telos) of יהוה, that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.”

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end (telos) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the goal (telos) of this command is love from a clean heart, from a good conscience and a sincere belief.”

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

Romans 6:22, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end (telos) everlasting life.”

Romans 6:22, “But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Yah, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the goal (telos); everlasting life.”

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law…

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”

1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of our instruction/command is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."

*goalis word #G5056 télos - Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

dcontroversal said:

Yeah that was the first thing I said in thep ost you quoted:

Hizikyah said:

Ralph- · Dec 24, 2017

dcontroversal said:

<yawn>....everybody knows this. What you don't get is if you're not living in a new nature growing up into the image of Christ you don't have the salvation that is by nothing other than faith in Jesus. Many scriptures confirm that if you are not a changed person looking more and more like Jesus but instead are the same old you then you do not know Jesus and have not passed from death to life. That's not being self righteous to think that. That's knowing what the Bible says.

Hizikyah · Dec 24, 2017

stonesoffire said:

Acts 2:29-40, “29 Men and brothers, let me speak boldly to you of the ancestor Dawiḏ, that he died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30, Being a prophet, then, and knowing that יהוה had sworn with an oath to him: of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, to raise up the Messiah to sit on his throne, 31, foreseeing this he spoke concerning the resurrection of the Messiah, that His being was neither left in She’ol, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32, יהוה has raised up this יהושע, of which we are all witnesses. 33, Therefore, having been exalted to the right hand of יהוה, and having received from the Father the promise of the Set-apart Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. 34, For Dawiḏ did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself said, ‘יהוה said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand, 35, until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.” 36, Therefore let all the house of Yisra’yl know for certain that יהוה has made this יהושע, whom you impaled, both Master and Messiah. 37, "And having heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Kĕpha and the rest of the emissaries, “Men, brothers, what shall we do? 38, "And Kĕpha said to them, “Repent, and let each one of you be immersed in the Name of יהושע Messiah for the forgiveness of sins. And you shall receive the gift of the Set-apart Spirit. 39, For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are far off, as many as יהוה ourStrength shall call. 40, And with many other words he earnestly witnessed and urged them, saying, “Be saved from this crooked generation.”

Habakkuk 2:1-4, "2:1, "I stand at my watch, and station myself on the watch-tower, and wait to see what He says to me, and what to answer when I am reproved."2:2, "And יהוה answered me and said, “Write the vision and inscribe it on tablets, so that he who reads it runs."2:3, "“For the vision is yet for an appointed time, and it speaks of the end, and does not lie. If it lingers, wait for it, for it shall certainly come, it shall not delay."2:4, "“See, he whose being is not upright in him is puffed up. But the righteous one lives by his steadfastness."

2 Timothy 2:19-21, “However, the solid foundation of Yah stands firm, having this seal, “יהוה knows those who are His, and, let everyone who names the Name of Messiah turn away from unrighteousness. But in a large house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some unto value and some unto no value. If, then, anyone cleanses himself from these matters, he shall be a vessel unto value, having been set apart, of good use to the Master, having been prepared for every good work.”

1 Thessalonians 5:21, "but test everything; hold fast what is righteous."

Mat 16:24-27, “Then יהושע said to His taught ones, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his stake, and follow Me. For whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake shall find it. For what is a man profited if he gains all the world, and loses his own life? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his life? For the Son of Aḏam is going to come in the esteem of His Father with His messengers, and then He shall reward each according to his works.”

Hebrews 12:3-5, “For consider Him who endured such opposition from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and faint in your lives.You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. And you have forgotten the appeal which speaks to you as to sons, “My son, do not despise the discipline of יהוה, nor faint when you are reproved by Him,"

Hebrews 12:28-29, "Therefore, since we are receiving a Kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have and hold humility, by which we may serve YHWH acceptably with reverence and awe: For our Father is a consuming fire."

Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Romans 12:1-2, “I call upon you, therefore, brothers, through the compassion of Yah, to present your bodies a living offering – set-apart, well-pleasing to Yah – your reasonable worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you prove what is that good and well-pleasing and perfect desire of Yah.”

Titus 2:11-12, “For the saving Gift of YHWH has appeared to all men, instructing us to renounce wickedness and worldly lusts, and to live sensibly, righteously, and reverently in the present age.”

Psalm 32:8, “Let Me instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; Let Me counsel, My eye be on you.”

eternally-gratefull · Dec 24, 2017

Ralph- said:

<yawn> can you name a person who says someone can be saved and not have a changed life? You continued banter that people can actually have faith which saved yet not have works is getting old!

Ralph- · Dec 24, 2017

stonesoffire said:

If all you have is 'belief' and nothing to show for what you believe then you haven't done the work of believing you think you have. You are a barren field that if it stays that way will be burned in the end, not harvested. Hebrews 6.

Ralph- · Dec 24, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

dcontroversial says you don't have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back. Discuss it with him, not me.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 24, 2017

There are people here who think one must maintain salvation, or else it can be lost, While at the same time insisting they do not teach justification by works.

They are misinformed, misapplying the word, Or outright in rebellion (they know the truth, just reject it) to the gospel of God.

preacher4truth · Dec 24, 2017

Ralph- said:

You're bearing false witness. John 3:7. I've described you fully and accurately. You think yourself to be righteous and despise others, fruit of a natural man deceived by being religiously blind.

Yes, examine yourself then instead of others, 2 Corinthians 13:5. Actually, never mind, the context of that verse is for the converted.

See? There's the bearing false witness. Again.

LOL!!!!!!! All you've done in this thread is condemn all others but yourself. You're the Luke 18:9-11 lad. Perhaps my LORD will help you notice your own wretched sinfulness and grant you faith and repentance?

Hizikyah · Dec 24, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

SAlvation can not be lost, but none have yet recieved it:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 3:14, “For we have become partakers of Messiah if we hold fast the beginning of our trust firm to the end.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For scripture interprets scripture, and nobody can preach or teach differently than what Yahshua already taught, and He Himself said He taught the doctrine of YHWH. What is promised to us is eternal life, so once again; once you have done the will of Yah in your life, in the resurrection you receive it. Not before.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 3:21, “To him who overcomes I shall give to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

Not By Works

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