Not By Works

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R

Ralph-

Guest
Who is saying this.

Why do you twist everyone’s words? And then expect people to agree with you?

John said whoever sins has never seen God or known him. Thus, as we all have been saying, ALL who have been born of God WILL WORK.

Stop your lies.
dcontroversial said the thief on the cross, the prodigal son, the fornicator at Corinth, and the person who is saved but has no works to be rewarded show us that you do not have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back. He says the only work you have to have done is believe. But the Bible says the person who has no works when Jesus comes back will be burned not saved. I posted the discussion between us but you seem to no want to see that he said that. And are even calling me a liar for saying he said it. Hmmm. Not good. God is watching.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:16, "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:14-26, “14 My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him. 15, "And if a brother or sister is naked and in need of daily food, 16, "but one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” but you do not give them the bodily needs, what use is it? 17, "So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead. 18, "But someone might say, “You have belief, and I have works.” Show me your belief without your works, and I shall show you my belief by my works. 19, "You believe that Yah is one. You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder! 20, "But do you wish to know, O empty man, that the belief without the works is dead? 21, "Was not Aḇraham our father declared right by works when he offered Yitsḥaq his son on the slaughter-place? 22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected? 23, "And the Scripture was filled which says, “Aḇraham believed Yah, and it was reckoned to him for righteousness.” And He called him, “he who loves Yah. 24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone. 25, "In the same way, was not Raḥaḇ the whore also declared right by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so also the belief is dead without the works.”[/FONT]
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
"Remember, God is watching!" :D
They mocked Jesus in similar fashion. But Paul does warn us that we will be persecuted. That's how you get abused.....just say the truth to people who are not living it.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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dcontroversial said the thief on the cross, the prodigal son, the fornicator at Corinth, and the person who is saved but has no works to be rewarded show us that you do not have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back. He says the only work you have to have done is believe. But the Bible says the person who has no works when Jesus comes back will be burned not saved. I posted the discussion between us but you seem to no want to see that he said that. And are even calling me a liar for saying he said it. Hmmm. Not good. God is watching.
Get over yourself....your drivel has now gone beyond laughable and is nothing more than false accusations and proof you have no understanding of anything I have posted
 
Dec 12, 2013
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They mocked Jesus in similar fashion. But Paul does warn us that we will be persecuted. That's how you get abused.....just say the truth to people who are not living it.
Your not being persecuted for righteousness.....
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
464
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dcontroversial said the thief on the cross, the prodigal son, the fornicator at Corinth, and the person who is saved but has no works to be rewarded show us that you do not have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back. He says the only work you have to have done is believe. But the Bible says the person who has no works when Jesus comes back will be burned not saved. I posted the discussion between us but you seem to no want to see that he said that. And are even calling me a liar for saying he said it. Hmmm. Not good. God is watching.
1 Cor 3:
12) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Seems to me Paul is saying, stop doing this. This is what you were but in Jesus your life should now be different. Go walk in it.

He did not say you are not saved to the "such were some of you".
Galatians 5:21 makes it more clear that this is written to those who 'live like this'. If you are unchanged in spite of your confession of knowing Christ you are a liar and if you remain that way when Jesus returns you will not inherit the kingdom, you will go into the furnace.

John said born again people do not 'live like this'. Our responsibility is to heed the warning and prove that we are called and chosen and really are among the born again. Which means if we are 'living like this' we are to put the flesh to death. If a person can't heed the warning it shows they do not know Christ and they will be lost when he returns. But Christians think since salvation is not by merit of works that it's okay to 'live like this' and they will inherit the kingdom when He returns. That's not what Paul, James, or John says. The one who ignores the warning is showing they do not know Christ and will not be saved when He comes back.

Many in ministry are leading these people astray into this lie that you can 'live like this' and you will still be saved when he returns because salvation is not by works and not warning them that to 'live like this' and to not change is to show you are not saved. They will pay a severe penalty for what they are doing.
 
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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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They mocked Jesus in similar fashion. But Paul does warn us that we will be persecuted. That's how you get abused.....just say the truth to people who are not living it.
You call yourself a mocker? It does fit.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Your not being persecuted for righteousness.....
FranC says; "That's how you get abused.....just say the truth to people who are not living it."

Being interpreted FranC means if we don't agree with her then we're not living for God, not saved. But she does this even after we've agreed the life is transformed if saved.

She just will not and cannot accept the fact there are people that are truly saved. Lol!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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1 Cor 3:
12) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Shrume gets it........exactly.......and this shows clearly that some belivers who are saved will have nothing but works of wood, hay and stubble that get roasted yet they themselves are still saved.........
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
1 Cor 3:
12) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
We know he's talking about works of service, not works of moral obedience because just 3 chapters later he says those who have works of fornication and adultery and drunkenness and idolatry and covetousness will not inherit the kingdom. But you and others are claiming that chapter 3 is saying these same works gets burned up while you get saved. That contradiction shows us that the works in chapter 3 can't be the works of the lost person in chapter 6.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,175
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Shrume gets it........exactly.......and this shows clearly that some belivers who are saved will have nothing but works of wood, hay and stubble that get roasted yet they themselves are still saved.........
I asked Ralph about this verse earlier, and she added a "but" to it.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

1Pe 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled.

1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

We can only be persecuted for what the world views of us in our behavior that they are against it.

We are persecuted for righteousness,because righteousness is an action that the world can see,because awake to righteousness,and sin not,and if a person does not do righteousness then they are not of God.

The Bible says we will be persecuted for righteousness,because it is an action that the world can see that we represent goodness,and Christ,and they do not like that.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Shrume gets it........exactly.......and this shows clearly that some belivers who are saved will have nothing but works of wood, hay and stubble that get roasted yet they themselves are still saved.........
Which exactly contradicts the passages that say you can not 'live like this' and inherit the kingdom. So we know Paul is not talking about moral obedience in chapter 3. If he is, he is contradicting his own teaching in chapter 6. The works that get burned up while we ourselves are saved have to be works of service that earn reward. They can't be works of adultery, fornication, lying, stealing, false witness, jealousy, envy, serving other gods, and other unlawful acts because Paul said you will NOT be saved if you live in those works.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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FranC says; "That's how you get abused.....just say the truth to people who are not living it."

Being interpreted FranC means if we don't agree with her then we're not living for God, not saved. But she does this even after we've agreed the life is transformed if saved.

She just will not and cannot accept the fact there are people that are truly saved. Lol!
Yeah I know....Ralph uses the same verbiage and arguments that FRAN used......almost verbatim........both wrong and in error while pushing a works based false gospel wven though they deny it
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Yeah I know....Ralph uses the same verbiage and arguments that FRAN used......almost verbatim........both wrong and in error while pushing a works based false gospel wven though they deny it
Yeah, that's nice. Now prove me wrong.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
464
83
Galatians 5:21 makes it more clear that this is written to those who 'live like this'. If you are unchanged in spite of your confession of knowing Christ you are a liar and if you remain that way when Jesus returns you will not inherit the kingdom, you will go into the furnace.

John said born again people do not 'live like this'. Our responsibility is to heed the warning and prove that we are called and chosen and really are among the born again. Which means if we are 'living like this' we are to put the flesh to death. If a person can't heed the warning it shows they do not know Christ and they will be lost when he returns. But Christians think since salvation is not by merit of works that it's okay to 'live like this' and they will inherit the kingdom when He returns. That's not what Paul, James, or John says. The one who ignores the warning is showing they do not know Christ and will not be saved when He comes back.

Many in ministry are leading these people astray into this lie that you can 'live like this' and you will still be saved when he returns because salvation is not by works and not warning them that to 'live like this' and to not change is to show you are not saved. They will pay a severe penalty for what they are doing.
The goal of Christians is not salvation. Salvation is a GIFT, given when a person believes on the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom 6:23; Rom 10:9-10; Eph 1:13-14; Acts 16:30-31). Christians have the guarantee of salvation, the gift of the Holy Spirit (2 Cor 1:22; 2 Cor 5:5; Eph 1:14).

Most Christians fail to distinguish between salvation and rewards. Salvation is a gift, rewards are earned, and rewards that a person may have earned can be lost. But whether a Christian is faithful or not, his salvation is never in jeopardy.

There will be a HUGE difference between the rewards a faithful Christian gets and a Christian who gets no rewards at all. Also remember that we are working for eternal rewards, that will not fade away.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
I asked Ralph about this verse earlier, and she added a "but" to it.
Just read my posts. You will not be able to refute what I'm saying. You can not 'live like this' and inherit the kingdom. It shows you do not know Christ. And if you remain that way when He returns you will be burned up not saved. Prove that the Bible is wrong about this.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
The goal of Christians is not salvation. Salvation is a GIFT, given when a person believes on the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom 6:23; Rom 10:9-10; Eph 1:13-14; Acts 16:30-31). Christians have the guarantee of salvation, the gift of the Holy Spirit (2 Cor 1:22; 2 Cor 5:5; Eph 1:14).

Most Christians fail to distinguish between salvation and rewards. Salvation is a gift, rewards are earned, and rewards that a person may have earned can be lost. But whether a Christian is faithful or not, his salvation is never in jeopardy.

There will be a HUGE difference between the rewards a faithful Christian gets and a Christian who gets no rewards at all. Also remember that we are working for eternal rewards, that will not fade away.
Which as I've shown means the works in chapter 3 that get burned up while the person is saved can NOT be works of moral unlawfulness. They can't be because Paul said that to have those works and 'live like this' will mean you will NOT inherit the kingdom, not be saved as he says you are in chapter 3.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Which exactly contradicts the passages that say you can not 'live like this' and inherit the kingdom. So we know Paul is not talking about moral obedience in chapter 3. If he is, he is contradicting his own teaching in chapter 6. The works that get burned up while we ourselves are saved have to be works of service that earn reward. They can't be works of adultery, fornication, lying, stealing, false witness, jealousy, envy, serving other gods, and other unlawful acts because Paul said you will NOT be saved if you live in those works.
You need to read more and pay attention to all the words ....and then tell us all exactly how many works must one have to be saved...1, 20, 500???? My bible is clear....ALL WHO ARE SAVED BY FAITH have done THE (DEFINITE ARTICLE) WORKS OF THE HEAVENLY FATHER.....which means they HAVE WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.....why is it so hard for you to grasp that.....and then.....NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, BUT ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HAS HE SAVED US (PAST TENSE) and IT PLEASED GOD BY THE FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING TO SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE <<-FAITH (SEE POINT ONE)

YOU PUSHERS of works for miss the truth of the above becaise you cannot get past your religion just like the Pharisee of old!