Partakers of the Holy Ghost

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Studyman

Senior Member
#61
Oct 11, 2017
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#61
hardsell said:
Yes, this is true. Jesus was saying his righteousness would overcome all self-righteousness.

What else would this mean? :confused:
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I believe He was speaking to the teaching of the Pharisees. If you take the very next sentence;

Matt. 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

This was talking about their teaching which, like the Serpent did to Eve, had some of God's Word, but not all of His Word.
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Jesus was exposing their teaching as incomplete, deceptive, wrong. The Bible taught so much more regarding a brother than "thou shall not kill".

Lev. 17:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

The Law and Prophets teach to love the stranger, and our brother. It teaches not to lust after another man's wife in your heart, it teaches that Jesus turned His Cheek to those who slapped Him.

The Mainstream Preachers of that time and before had corrupted God's Word and was not teaching the people what the Bible taught. They were teaching their own Gospel, their own Salvation, not what God had instructed. This was prophesied all over the Old Testament. I'll post just one, but there are many more.

Jer. 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Anyway, that is my take. I hope I am clear, sometimes I have a hard time explaining what my mind thinks:)
 
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Speak2Me

Banned
#62
Sep 14, 2017
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#62
eternally-gratefull said:
No one had the permanent indwelling of the HS in the OT./ The penalty of sin was not paid yet. So that would not be a good example.
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John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost in his mother's womb long before the crucifixion.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#63
#63
hardsell said:
Yes, this is true. Jesus was saying his righteousness would overcome all self-righteousness.

What else would this mean? :confused:
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How about the most righteous people on earth (concerning the law) can not make it, So why do you think you can?

I am honestly not sure what self righteousness has anything to do with what Jesus said, her did not say self righteousness, so I would be wary of trying to add to what he said.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#64
#64
Speak2Me said:
So, you, a free gracer, an OSAS, has just said sinful man CAN obey God BEFORE receiving the Holy Spirit at salvation?

You just countered your own doctrine by saying works were required to obey the gospel message by repenting of sin (a work), and committing their lives to Christ (also a work).

This is what this scripture really means.
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Can a non believer not commit murder? Can they give to the poor? Can they honor their parents.

Why don;t you try reading what I said and not assuming you know what I meant.

I said they could obey according to the law (commands) I did not say they could do good works (bare fruit)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65
#65
Speak2Me said:
John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost in his mother's womb long before the crucifixion.
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And? Does that prove what I said was wrong? Many people had the HS before the crucifiction. The point was, it was NEVER PERMANENT.
 
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Speak2Me

Banned
#66
Sep 14, 2017
900
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#66
eternally-gratefull said:
Can a non believer not commit murder? Can they give to the poor? Can they honor their parents.

Why don;t you try reading what I said and not assuming you know what I meant.

I said they could obey according to the law (commands) I did not say they could do good works (bare fruit)
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So, repentance & commitment are NOT good fruit?

The more you try to dig yourself outta that hole, the deeper you get.
 
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Speak2Me

Banned
#67
Sep 14, 2017
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#67
eternally-gratefull said:
And? Does that prove what I said was wrong? Many people had the HS before the crucifiction. The point was, it was NEVER PERMANENT.
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John was born with it, & died with it, so, yeeeeah, I'd say that was permanent.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#68
#68
Speak2Me said:
John was born with it, & died with it, so, yeeeeah, I'd say that was permanent.
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Smh

Have any more examples?

Surely you can find more.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#69
#69
Speak2Me said:
So, repentance & commitment are NOT good fruit?

The more you try to dig yourself outta that hole, the deeper you get.
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Fruit is seen as others. Not self.

Repentance is done BEFORE salvation

Commitment can not even be proven, Pharisees commited to serve God. As do many so called christians.

And again, it is related to self. Not others. So no it is not fruit.
 
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Speak2Me

Banned
#70
Sep 14, 2017
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#70
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Speak2Me

Banned
#71
Sep 14, 2017
900
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#71
eternally-gratefull said:
Fruit is seen as others. Not self.
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No, fruit as God determines it, because it's what God thinks, not you.

Repentance is done BEFORE salvation
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Yep. And it's a work, too.

Commitment can not even be proven, Pharisees commited to serve God. As do many so called christians.

And again, it is related to self. Not others. So no it is not fruit.
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Agaaaain, it's what God thinks, not you.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#72
#72
Speak2Me said:
No, fruit as God determines it, because it's what God thinks, not you.
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yep and scripture says the fruit of our labor is people. So thanks..

Yep.And it's a work, too
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As you said, Jesus says what is a work, not you. Jesus said it is the work of God we believe, So since faith is a work of God. Repentance must be a work of God.

.Agaaaain, it's what God thinks, not you.
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yep. And God does not say commitment is fruit.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#73
#73
Speak2Me said:
You said:

With such staunch, authoritarian posts like these, I only needed one to prove it.:D
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So you have no more examples? I did not think so. John the baptist was a special case. No one else had the HS before they were born.
 
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Speak2Me

Banned
#74
Sep 14, 2017
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#74
eternally-gratefull said:
[/COLOR]yep and scripture says the fruit of our labor is people. So thanks..
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Haa-haa. You're so far out in left field you fell over the fence. Show me the scriptures & redeem yourself, if you can.

As you said, Jesus says what is a work, not you. Jesus said it is the work of God we believe, So since faith is a work of God. Repentance must be a work of God.
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God gave every man the measure of faith, so faith was a gift given to all mankind that we could repent & believe in Christ. God gave it, but we had to use it. So repentance & believing are man's actions, thus works.
yep. And God does not say commitment is fruit.
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Commitment to God is a lifelong process, thus good fruit.
God didn't say the trinity is true either, but it is.:)
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#76
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
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#76
Speak2Me said:
God gave every man the measure of faith, so faith was a gift given to all mankind that we could repent & believe in Christ. God gave it, but we had to use it. So repentance & believing are man's actions, thus works.
Commitment to God is a lifelong process, thus good fruit.
God didn't say the trinity is true either, but it is.:)
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The passage you are alluding to, and frankly misusing, is contextually written only to believers, not the world at large. Context. Romans 12:3. Sorry, but you're incorrect here so neither Scripture nor its context support you. Huge mistake on your part.

Both faith and repentance are given by God, faith is not inherent, and he gifts both faith and repentance to those He saves. So you're incorrect about these as well.
 
Cee

Cee

Senior Member
#77
May 14, 2010
2,169
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#77
Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law. When we are REBORN in Spirit. We are REBORN in Him. Joshua brought Israelites into the promise land. Jesus/Joshua are the same name. Jesus brought US into the promise land. The promise of God IS Holy Spirit. The reason we have Holy Spirit is because we have been made holy by the life of Christ. The reason our righteousness needs to exceed theirs is because NO ONE is saved on their own merit. Even Israel was only saved through faith. The LAW was given to show people the need for a Savior not to replace Him. The LAW that Gentiles (that's us) are judged by is what's written on our hearts because the WRITTEN LAW (10 commandments) was given to Moses for the Israelites. So what then fulfills the law? Love.

But we don't love Him until we receive His love.

Further more, we don't love one another until we receive His love also. At least not with agape love.

Remember Jesus says: Sheep vs Goats will sectioned off by their love for one another. As they do for ONE another they do unto Him. And this is the commandment He gives us: love one another as I have loved you. Loving God IS loving one another. Because we are the Body of Christ.

We do follow the law because it's written on our hearts. And His law is to love one another.

If we don't understand His command to love and forgive, and the unity of Christ now in believers, none of this will make much sense.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#78
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
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#78
eternally-gratefull said:
So you have no more examples? I did not think so. John the baptist was a special case. No one else had the HS before they were born.
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===============================================

ISA. 63:11.
Then He remembered the days of old, Moses, and His people, saying, Where is He
that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of His flock? where is He
that put His Holy Spirit within him?

one cannot inherit The Kingdom of God without The Holy Spirit, it is our guarantee...

eg,

do you not accept this Scripture? or are you just bent on having it your own way?
don't you remember Abraham? do you really think that David could Love and Adore,
and Serve His Holy Master without The Holy Spirit dwelling inside of him?!?!, etc.???

no one is truly going to 'believe God' and act upon their belief, walk in The Light, unless they have
received The Holy Spirit...all we have to do is just look at the world and what is going
on with most of it's people yesterday and today...

it's a no brainer that Jesus imparted God's Holy Spirit to those whom He called out and choose,
no human could ever perform the acts that they did without being sealed...
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#79
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
2,208
113
#79
Warnings against False Teachers
"Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons, influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron.They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from certain foods that God has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creation of God is good, and nothing that is received with thanksgiving should be rejected, because it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." (Tim 4:1-5)

A result that included 'linguistic' as part of my IQ assessment might explain my peculiarity interest in etymology, and I suppose a tinge of OCD might be the cause as to why I cannot ignore slight variations, nor similarities, in language. And so I notice this similarity in the term used for 'fall away' Tim 4:1 to that in Heb 6:6, contrasted with the similarities in that Jesus used in Matt 24:10 and John 16:1 in the text precede His promise of the Holy Spirit, as well as in His prophecy in Mark 14:27 saying, "You will all fall away,".

Witnessing to All Nations
"Then they will hand you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name. At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another, and many false prophets will arise and mislead many.Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." (Matt 24:9-14)

Persecution Foretold
"I have told you these things so that you will not fall away." (John 16:1)
 
Cee

Cee

Senior Member
#80
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
#80
Isaiah 63:11 in the ESV is translated thus:

Then he remembered the days of old,
of Moses and his people.[d]
Where is he who brought them up out of the sea
with the shepherds of his flock?
Where is he who put in the midst of them
his Holy Spirit,
 
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