Partakers of the Holy Ghost

[johnthebaptist]

Now this type of deep sorrow, godly sorrow, is not so much about regret; but it is about producing a change of mind and behavior that ultimately leads to salvation. But the other type of sorrow, worldly sorrow, often is fleeting and only brings death. Hence, righteousness thru faith, which is a process, leads to Salvation in Christ's Lordship thru the Holy Spirit; while even the good acts of man's flesh has no spiritual power to edify in the Kingdom of God.

Anything therefore not done in our lives in the wake of the Holy Spirit is of no spiritual value at all as Children of God.

Jesus put it like this
“Two people owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42 Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?”
43 Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven.”
Luke 7:41-43

Some who have grown up in the church and lived with church culture throughout
their lives take so much for granted and talk like everything is certain and obvious.

Those who come from a rough background, dredged the depths of despair yet been
brought to life, know the fruit of sin and ways of death. It changes peoples perspectives.

The repentance from sin still needs to be the same but often the insight is much different.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus died for the sins of the World, He died, "while we were yet sinners"

Rom. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

But Jesus didn't "SAVE" us at our worse. Not everyone will be saved as Jesus said.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

So man's preaching that we "Come as we are" or that Jesus "Saves us at our worse" is in opposition to what He teaches, which is, if there is no repentance, no change, there is no salvation, there is no "Saved".

You repent AT YOUR WORSE, and because you REPENT you have faith in God and BECAUSE of your faith, you were saved

Repenting does not make us morally good people. You repent when you are at your worse. Otherwise, You would think there is some good in you, and you would never repent. Thats why the religious will never repent, HE STILL THINKS HE IS GOOD.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Repentance is turning toward God.

Its not sorrow. It’s only GODLY sorrow if we turn toward God as a result.

Jesus said repent for the Kingdom of God is AT hand. Which means in front of you.

We don’t clean ourselves up to come to Jesus. We come to Jesus to be cleaned up.

It was by HIS WORD that the disciples were cleansed.

Amen, if many of these people would see this, they would find Christ, We do not clean ourself up first (thats impossible anyway) we come to God to have him CLEAN US because like the tax collector, we see how unworthy we really are (see no worth)

 

[johnthebaptist]

Amen, if many of these people would see this, they would find Christ, We do not clean ourself up first (thats impossible anyway) we come to God to have him CLEAN US because like the tax collector, we see how unworthy we really are (see no worth)

What do you mean by cleaning us, and what is sorrow?

Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
2 Cor 7:10

8 Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.
2 Cor 7:8-9

Pauls letter tells of him bring a rebuke that led to sorrow that led to repentance.

Are you suggesting Paul was wrong or you are saying the same as Paul but not
in the same way?

 

[hardsell]

You have no idea what you’re talking about. I wasn’t attacking him. I was trying to give him feedback to help him. I was more direct with him because it was needed. I’ve given feedback to EG and him to me before as well. But it’s fine, carry on. I’m done with it. Wisdom is known by her children.

Stop laying the victim and grow up and own yourself and be honest. You were not giving feedback. You were doing what you do best. You were duplicitous in your motive and all the while your were collecting info to use against me, to help your baby brothers out of a jam.

You did this to me on the not by works thread. I opened up to you on a post and all you did was use every bit of it against me in your next post. You even implied I should be banned, by saying my I might not be here any longer if I keep accusing your brothers of sin. A call to accountability from 2 fellow ministers of the Gospel for using and condoning the use of profanity is not judgement.

Like I said, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[Studyman]

You repent AT YOUR WORSE, and because you REPENT you have faith in God and BECAUSE of your faith, you were saved

Repenting does not make us morally good people. You repent when you are at your worse. Otherwise, You would think there is some good in you, and you would never repent. Thats why the religious will never repent, HE STILL THINKS HE IS GOOD.

OK, that clears it up. Thanks EG.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What do you mean by cleaning us,

Not by works of righteousness which we have done But by his mercy he SAVED us by the WASHING and renewal of the HS.

we must be cleansed before we can be restored.

and what is sorrow?

Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
2 Cor 7:10

8 Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.
2 Cor 7:8-9

Pauls letter tells of him bring a rebuke that led to sorrow that led to repentance.

Are you suggesting Paul was wrong or you are saying the same as Paul but not
in the same way?

I am not sure what you mean.

1. The tax collector did not have sorrow, He had fear, Fear of his life and shame, so much shame he culd not even ook up into heaven.
2. Peter had Godly sorrow, He could not even tell Christ he loved him properly, he had to be healed. This is what Paul spoke of. He chastened them for sin, to get them to show sorrow so they could repent of that sin and be brought back to life (not back to salvation)
3. Worldly sorrow is shown by Judas, He was sorry in that he was taken advantage of and they promised not to kill him, yet they did, Then would not take the money back when he realized his guilt, He did not repent, he took the worldy way out and committed suicide.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Stop laying the victim and grow up and own yourself and be honest. You were not giving feedback. You were doing what you do best. You were duplicitous in your motive and all the while your were collecting info to use against me, to help your baby brothers out of a jam.

You did this to me on the not by works thread. I opened up to you on a post and all you did was use every bit of it against me in your next post. You even implied I should be banned, by saying my I might not be here any longer if I keep accusing your brothers of sin. A call to accountability from 2 fellow ministers of the Gospel for using and condoning the use of profanity is not judgement.

Like I said, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

this is what lack of repentance and pride looks like.

Consider this person on ignore. I can not deal with this much pride. People say you are meggido. I can not prove it, but you sure act like it.. He was on ignore also because of his arrogance.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OK, that clears it up. Thanks EG.

Thank you for asking me to clear it up and not just assume you know what I meant and going off. Like sadly happens alot.

 

[ComeLordJesus]

I wonder why Paul said in Romans 10:9 that if we confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead that "we will be saved" instead of "we're saved"?

 

[Studyman]

Repentance is turning toward God.

Its not sorrow. It’s only GODLY sorrow if we turn toward God as a result.

Jesus said repent for the Kingdom of God is AT hand. Which means in front of you.

We don’t clean ourselves up to come to Jesus. We come to Jesus to be cleaned up.

It was by HIS WORD that the disciples were cleansed.

Yes, Jesus "WORD" did cleanse those who are exercised by it. I just want to "Take Heed" that I follow HIS Words, and not those "Many" who come in His name that He warned about.

James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

8 Draw nigh to God, and (then) he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

I understand I have nothing to do with Christ's ability or power to forgive past sins. But I also understand that I am to "choose" what Word's I follow. Do I follow Jesus and His instructions, or men's religion which has been the scourge of the world since Cain killed Abel.

I can choose to obey those instructions I see, and stop committing the sins I see, this is true repentance. And I believe Jesus when He said He would send the "Helper" or "Comforter" or "Spirit of Truth" to expose those sins I can not see, those hidden sins that His Light exposes that are in the deep parts of my mind, so I can repent of these as well.

Being "Freed" from the death and deception these sins caused me by the Blood of Christ, I am now "Free" to "SERVE HIM". Something He does not do for me.

Any teaching that says I have nothing to do with my relationship with God is a false teaching IMHO.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I wonder why Paul said in Romans 10:9 that if we confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead that "we will be saved" instead of "we're saved"?

Take a look again.

if we confess (if we in the future do this)

We will be saved (again in the future)

it is like I say if you give me what I am asking for the thing you desire, I will give you what you desire. Both are future tense. Now if you give me the thing I was asking, and I do not give you want you desired, I was a deceiver and a liar. think on this.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Stop laying the victim and grow up and own yourself and be honest. You were not giving feedback. You were doing what you do best. You were duplicitous in your motive and all the while your were collecting info to use against me, to help your baby brothers out of a jam.

You did this to me on the not by works thread. I opened up to you on a post and all you did was use every bit of it against me in your next post. You even implied I should be banned, by saying my I might not be here any longer if I keep accusing your brothers of sin. A call to accountability from 2 fellow ministers of the Gospel for using and condoning the use of profanity is not judgement.

Like I said, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

I stay out of that thread for more than one reason, but the ganging up by a group on that thread has definitely got a few so upset they said things they should not have and were banned

it's a minefield!

if someone actually says to another they should or might be banned though (unless they are trolling or the like), that is abusive in and of itself IMO

like I said, that thread in particular seems to lend itself to disappearing people

 

[johnthebaptist]

Not by works of righteousness which we have done But by his mercy he SAVED us by the WASHING and renewal of the HS.

we must be cleansed before we can be restored.

I am not sure what you mean.

1. The tax collector did not have sorrow, He had fear, Fear of his life and shame, so much shame he culd not even ook up into heaven.
2. Peter had Godly sorrow, He could not even tell Christ he loved him properly, he had to be healed. This is what Paul spoke of. He chastened them for sin, to get them to show sorrow so they could repent of that sin and be brought back to life (not back to salvation)
3. Worldly sorrow is shown by Judas, He was sorry in that he was taken advantage of and they promised not to kill him, yet they did, Then would not take the money back when he realized his guilt, He did not repent, he took the worldy way out and committed suicide.

Sorry. I am not sure I know of the scripture about being cleansed and restored.
What are you referring to?

I know of the stages of coming to faith.
Realisation of God. Conviction of sin. A desire to resolve behaviour, confession of sin,
repentance of sin, faith in the cross for the forgiveness of sins, acceptance of eternal life,
belief in Christ, following and obeying Christs commands etc.

Restoration is used for believers who have fallen from grace, become defiled in some way
and so need bringing back.

Cleansing or purification ceremonies in the OT occur, but I do not know the details.

Now the passage I quoted of Paul to the corinthians is straight forward.
He describes the rebuke for sin, the sorrow that led to repentance and changing behaviour.
This is the traditional view of repentance, conviction, sorrow, confession, changed behaviour.

8 Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.
2 Cor 7:8-9

How is this difficult to understand? Why would anyone not just accept what Paul is writing
because it works in their hearts also?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I stay out of that thread for more than one reason, but the ganging up by a group on that thread has definitely got a few so upset they said things they should not have and were banned

it's a minefield!

if someone actually says to another they should or might be banned though (unless they are trolling or the like), that is abusive in and of itself IMO

like I said, that thread in particular seems to lend itself to disappearing people

Actually it was the other way around, One of them even admitted she was trying to get someone banned so she went after him, that is why she got banned, she was silly enough to send an email about it which was given to the mods.

A group of 4 people who went after hyper grace is what Got so many people heated, Myself included. because of their tactics of lying about others, and attacking people to get them to say things which would get them banned (a few of them did the same thing in another chat room, so it was their modus operendi.

You left for are awhile, Maybe you missed it.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

this is what lack of repentance and pride looks like.

Consider this person on ignore. I can not deal with this much pride. People say you are meggido. I can not prove it, but you sure act like it.. He was on ignore also because of his arrogance.

I am Megiddo. anyone else Megiddo? LOL!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Actually it was the other way around, One of them even admitted she was trying to get someone banned so she went after him, that is why she got banned, she was silly enough to send an email about it which was given to the mods.

A group of 4 people who went after hyper grace is what Got so many people heated, Myself included. because of their tactics of lying about others, and attacking people to get them to say things which would get them banned (a few of them did the same thing in another chat room, so it was their modus operandi..fixed if for yah
You left for are awhile, Maybe you missed it.

I don't care dude.

I think you need to put your six shooters away. it seems you appointed yourself sheriff and you are shooting at anything that moves

ps...I don't know what you mean people went 'after' hyper grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry. I am not sure I know of the scripture about being cleansed and restored.
What are you referring to?

You do not know titus 3: 5?

I know of the stages of coming to faith.
Realisation of God. Conviction of sin. A desire to resolve behaviour, confession of sin,
repentance of sin, faith in the cross for the forgiveness of sins, acceptance of eternal life,
belief in Christ, following and obeying Christs commands etc.

I disagree with what is bolded.

A non child of God can not desire to resolve behavior, they do not even know what good works are. All they can do is let the law bring them to Christ as they realize they are judged and condemned (conviction of sin)and let them know that there is no way of resolving the sin issue (conviction of being dead because of sin) and that the only way to redemption is by sacrifice (conviction of total helplessness)

Repent means more than just repent of sin, It means to repent from worldly thinking to Godly thinking.

and finally, Following christ is a result of salvation, not a per-requisite for being saved.

there are Alot of self works here. The tax collector did not do all these things, he was just brought to his knees, And God said he went home justified, and because of his faith, he learned to not only trust in God for eternal life. But in his daily life living also.

Restoration is used for believers who have fallen from grace, become defiled in some way
and so need bringing back.

As Jesus said, you are completely clean, you still have to be washed from time to time again, Restoration is restoration to abundant life and restoration to blessing, not restoration to salvation

Cleansing or purification ceremonies in the OT occur, but I do not know the details.

they all lead to christ and the cross. and show how we are cleansed of sin. Thats all you really need to know. Jesus fulfilled all the law. Including the law of sacrifice.

Now the passage I quoted of Paul to the corinthians is straight forward.
He describes the rebuke for sin, the sorrow that led to repentance and changing behaviour.
This is the traditional view of repentance, conviction, sorrow, confession, changed behaviour.

8 Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.
2 Cor 7:8-9

How is this difficult to understand? Why would anyone not just accept what Paul is writing
because it works in their hearts also?

I do understand, Paul did not say to do this so you can get saved or re-saved, He said this leads you to feel sorrow for walking away and taking care of your own needs when you should have been taking care of everyone else's needs, because God takes care of your needs.

Do you think paul spoke of being re-saved or saved? Or his rebuke he gave in his first letter?

 

[preacher4truth]

Sorry. I am not sure I know of the scripture about being cleansed and restored.
What are you referring to?

I know of the stages of coming to faith.
Realisation of God. Conviction of sin. A desire to resolve behaviour, confession of sin,
repentance of sin, faith in the cross for the forgiveness of sins, acceptance of eternal life,
belief in Christ, following and obeying Christs commands etc.

Restoration is used for believers who have fallen from grace, become defiled in some way
and so need bringing back.

Cleansing or purification ceremonies in the OT occur, but I do not know the details.

Now the passage I quoted of Paul to the corinthians is straight forward.
He describes the rebuke for sin, the sorrow that led to repentance and changing behaviour.
This is the traditional view of repentance, conviction, sorrow, confession, changed behaviour.

8 Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.
2 Cor 7:8-9

How is this difficult to understand? Why would anyone not just accept what Paul is writing
because it works in their hearts also?

Nice Anglicised English there, PeterJens. Did you slip up?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't care dude.

I think you need to put your six shooters away. it seems you appointed yourself sheriff and you are shooting at anything that moves

ps...I don't know what you mean people went 'after' hyper grace.

blah bah blah.

If I make a point, and someone disagrees and either asks me a question, or points a differing view, it is ok, But if I do it, I am attacking poor little people who are hopeless. (SMH)

so, when are we supposed to discuss the word?

I have no six shooters. No one at the present time that I know if is attacking others (well one did but I just put him on ignore) I never attacked this young lady, I asked her a question, A question she still has refused to answer, and since, I have responded to her a few times, in a non aggressive manner.

If anyone has six shooters, it is you, because every time I say something you feel like you have to come to peoples rescue and tear me down. That is childish! I would expect more from a sister in Christ.

Thats on you (DUDE!) Practice what you preach!