State of the Dead. what happens when you die. ???
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There is a first resurrection of Christians (and OT saints) when Christ returns in power and glory with his angels > the marriage feast - the bride and the bridegroom - in the air and together all come down to the Mount of Olives,
and enter what's left of Jerusalem. And the government shall be upon his shoulder.
Who and how many are part of the first resurrection is Jesus' call. I can only hope to be part of this.
For if I am part of the first resurrection then I need not worry about the condemnation of the second death.
The second resurrection before the great white throne is everybody else, including Christians who are not part of the first resurrection.
This judgment is one of life and death.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that
have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 5:
and enter what's left of Jerusalem. And the government shall be upon his shoulder.
Who and how many are part of the first resurrection is Jesus' call. I can only hope to be part of this.
For if I am part of the first resurrection then I need not worry about the condemnation of the second death.
The second resurrection before the great white throne is everybody else, including Christians who are not part of the first resurrection.
This judgment is one of life and death.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that
have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 5:
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Luke 23: 39-43
39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at Him: “Aren’t You the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at Him: “Aren’t You the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Luke 23:43
And[SUP]G2532 [/SUP]Jesus[SUP]G2424[/SUP] said[SUP]G2036[/SUP] unto him,[SUP]G846[/SUP] Verily[SUP]G281 [/SUP]I say[SUP]G3004[/SUP] unto thee,[SUP]G4671[/SUP] To day[SUP]G4594[/SUP] shalt thou be[SUP]G2071[/SUP] with[SUP]G3326[/SUP] me[SUP]G1700[/SUP] in[SUP]G1722[/SUP] paradise.[SUP]G3857[/SUP]
G3857 παράδεισος paradeisos Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.
H6508 פּרדּס pardês Of foreign origin; a park: - forest, orchard.
Jesus is saying to the thief that he will be with him in the earth, in the grave.
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Luke 23:43
And[SUP]G2532 [/SUP]Jesus[SUP]G2424[/SUP] said[SUP]G2036[/SUP] unto him,[SUP]G846[/SUP] Verily[SUP]G281 [/SUP]I say[SUP]G3004[/SUP] unto thee,[SUP]G4671[/SUP] To day[SUP]G4594[/SUP] shalt thou be[SUP]G2071[/SUP] with[SUP]G3326[/SUP] me[SUP]G1700[/SUP] in[SUP]G1722[/SUP] paradise.[SUP]G3857[/SUP]
G3857 παράδεισος paradeisos Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.
H6508 פּרדּס pardês Of foreign origin; a park: - forest, orchard.
Jesus is saying to the thief that he will be with him in the earth, in the grave.
Waggles,
No need to hope. You are GUARANTEED to be in the first resurrection, which is for those who are in Christ -- the saints of God. The second resurrection is for the unsaved and for their damnation. But all may be saved if all will repent and believe the Gospel.
The problem here is that some sincerely believe that the saints are sleeping in their graves. That is a GRAVE ERROR.
Strongly disagree with you on this.
That comes across as OSAS heresy.
No Christian is guaranteed salvation in the first resurrection. One has hope and patience and experience and remaining steadfast and sure.
I may have a confidence in my salvation but not a 100% guarantee that I will make it.
Not every professed Christian has a love for the Word and submits to the commandments of God.
Not all doctrines and faiths are equal.
Given the great diversities of faiths and doctrines and Christian rites and behaviours it is naïve to assume all are saved.
As to those of us who as Christians die prior to the return of Jesus our souls sleep in Hades (Sheol) waiting for the last trump to awaken us.
Saul and the witch from Endor call up Samuel from the grave
12 And the woman saw Samuel, and cried with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!
13 And the king said to her, Do not be afraid. For what did you see? And the woman said to Saul, I saw gods coming up out of the earth.
14 And he said to her, What is his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and he bowed his face to the ground, and prostrated himself.
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am grievously distressed, for the Philistines are warring against me. And God has left me and does not answer me any more, neither by prophets nor by dreams. And I have called you so that you may make known to me what I should do.
1Samuuel 28 (MJKV)
Even Samuel the great prophet of the LORD sleeps waiting for his resurrection, as all do.
12 And the woman saw Samuel, and cried with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!
13 And the king said to her, Do not be afraid. For what did you see? And the woman said to Saul, I saw gods coming up out of the earth.
14 And he said to her, What is his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and he bowed his face to the ground, and prostrated himself.
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am grievously distressed, for the Philistines are warring against me. And God has left me and does not answer me any more, neither by prophets nor by dreams. And I have called you so that you may make known to me what I should do.
1Samuuel 28 (MJKV)
Even Samuel the great prophet of the LORD sleeps waiting for his resurrection, as all do.
Hi Waggles,
You probably should point out that Saul wasn't really talking to Samuel. It wasn't real clear in your statement that Saul was addressing a demon through the witch. That is why God doesn't allow us talking to familiar spirits. Which also is why Saul cut off, from the kingdom, for this act.
Yours,
Deade
Hello Nehemiah6,
I see you are still trying to wake the dead. When Christ comes back the very next time, He will encircle the earth while the asleep in Christ will rise and join Him. Then those that are alive will be changed into incorruptible spirits to join him. Jesus said that no man has ascended to heaven. John 3:13: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”
Don't give me a reference to the transfiguration when Jesus appeared with Moses and Elijah. This is an example of a vision. But a vision is just a vision, we should not draw doctrine from them. A vision is an exception to what is literal. All the patriarchs in Hebrews 11 are still waiting to get to heaven. I remind you this was written after the cross. No, Hebrews 12 doesn't prove anyone in heaven. It is just a reference to Zion.
Everyone says that we will have glorified bodies, after our resurrection. I don't agree, we will be spirit. John said: John 4:24: “God is spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth.” and in 1 John 3:2: "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is." Sounds like we will be spirits too.
Of course Christ ascended and came back in a physical body. He also generated physical bodies for Himself and two cherubim in the Plains of Mamre to talk to Abraham. God can do anything He wants. This is what your spiritual bodies are. God does not need a body. We would not even recognize Him in His glorified form. 2 Corinthians 5:16: "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." He is now in glory.
Everything made in our universe was made by the unseen (spirits).
Yours,
Deade
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Where will always be arguments against and for the state of the dead either way. But what does the weight of evidence from the word show and what does a loving God do?
Don't say the old testament is different.
“The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7).
“Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7).
“The body without the spirit is dead” (James 2:26).
“The spirit of God is in my nostrils” (Job 27:3 KJV).
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Ezekiel 18:20).
“Every living soul died in the sea” (Revelation 16:3).
Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God?
1Ti 6:16 Who only (God) hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
“All who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth” (John 5:28, 29).
“David … is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. … For David did not ascend into the heavens” (Acts 2:29, 34).
“If I wait, the grave is mine house” (Job 17:13).
“The living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun. … There is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10).
“The dead do not praise the Lord” (Psalm 115:17).
“Man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep. … His sons come to honor, and he does not know it; they are brought low, and he does not perceive it” (Job 14:12, 21). “The day of the Lord will come … in which the heavens will pass away” (2 Peter 3:10).
“Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 9:6).
“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work” (Revelation 22:12).
“The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout. … And the dead in Christ will rise. … And thus we shall always be with the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).
“We shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye … and the dead will be raised incorruptible. … For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinthians 15:51–53).
What was the first lie ??
“The serpent said to the woman, ‘You will not surely die’ ” (Genesis 3:4).
“That serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan” (Revelation 12:9).
The devil’s lie that we will not die is one of the pillars of his teachings. For thousands of years, he has worked powerful, deceptive miracles to trick people into thinking they are receiving messages from the spirits of the dead. (Examples: Magicians of Egypt—Exodus 7:11; Woman of Endor—1 Samuel 28:3–25; Sorcerers—Daniel 2:2; A slave girl—Acts 16:16–18.)
In the near future, Satan will again use sorcery—as he did in the prophet Daniel’s day—to deceive the world (Revelation 18:23). Sorcery is a supernatural agency that claims to receive its power and wisdom from the spirits of the dead.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
“For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles” (Revelation 16:14, KJV).
“False christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect” (Matthew 24:24).
Please explain how the Bible teaches that the dead go to heaven instantly.
“They received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so” (Acts 17:11).
“If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isaiah 8:20).
Don't say the old testament is different.
“The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7).
“Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7).
“The body without the spirit is dead” (James 2:26).
“The spirit of God is in my nostrils” (Job 27:3 KJV).
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Ezekiel 18:20).
“Every living soul died in the sea” (Revelation 16:3).
Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God?
1Ti 6:16 Who only (God) hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
“All who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth” (John 5:28, 29).
“David … is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. … For David did not ascend into the heavens” (Acts 2:29, 34).
“If I wait, the grave is mine house” (Job 17:13).
“The living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun. … There is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10).
“The dead do not praise the Lord” (Psalm 115:17).
“Man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep. … His sons come to honor, and he does not know it; they are brought low, and he does not perceive it” (Job 14:12, 21). “The day of the Lord will come … in which the heavens will pass away” (2 Peter 3:10).
“Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 9:6).
“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work” (Revelation 22:12).
“The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout. … And the dead in Christ will rise. … And thus we shall always be with the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).
“We shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye … and the dead will be raised incorruptible. … For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinthians 15:51–53).
What was the first lie ??
“The serpent said to the woman, ‘You will not surely die’ ” (Genesis 3:4).
“That serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan” (Revelation 12:9).
The devil’s lie that we will not die is one of the pillars of his teachings. For thousands of years, he has worked powerful, deceptive miracles to trick people into thinking they are receiving messages from the spirits of the dead. (Examples: Magicians of Egypt—Exodus 7:11; Woman of Endor—1 Samuel 28:3–25; Sorcerers—Daniel 2:2; A slave girl—Acts 16:16–18.)
In the near future, Satan will again use sorcery—as he did in the prophet Daniel’s day—to deceive the world (Revelation 18:23). Sorcery is a supernatural agency that claims to receive its power and wisdom from the spirits of the dead.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
“For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles” (Revelation 16:14, KJV).
“False christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect” (Matthew 24:24).
Please explain how the Bible teaches that the dead go to heaven instantly.
“They received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so” (Acts 17:11).
“If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isaiah 8:20).
What you are not understanding is that the reference to "sleep" on refers to the body.
The error that you are making is that you read the places where scripture uses the word "sleep" for those who have died or are dead and you ignore the scriptures that demonstrate conscious awareness of the spirit after death. So what you are doing is not performing a completed exegesis. You are not including the rest of the information regarding this issue. And like so many, when it these other facts are brought up to you, you grab a hold of an existing apologetic or one that you have created.
The facts are that we have plenty of scriptures showing the conscious awareness of the spirit after death. A very prominent one is the event of the rich man and Lazarus. It has all of the proof here of two men dying and buried, with their spirits departing into Hades conscious and aware. And what do people do with that? They label it as being a parable in order to circumvent the literal meaning of the event and then say "show me another scripture." And they continue with the apologetics all the way down the list.
Go through the list in 31# and prove that they mean differently, the weight of evidence shows that the dead know nothing. So the few verses that you use either contradict the rest of the Bible or have a different meaning to what you are saying. The word does not contradict itself.
The problem with your claim above, is that Jesus was and is not a spirit. He even made that clear to his disciples. I've already provided the scripture for this, yet you continue to claim that we are going to be spirits. The word "anastasis" translated as "resurrection" always has to do with the physical body standing up again. That is why when the women went to the tomb they did not find Jesus' body, because he was walking around in it.
You should reconsider your position, because believing in the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ is paramount to ones salvation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Strong's Concordance
anastasis: a standing up, i.e. a resurrection, a raising up, rising
Original Word: ἀνάστασις, εως, ἡPart of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: anastasis
Phonetic Spelling: (an-as'-tas-is)
Short Definition: a rising again, resurrection
Definition: a rising again, resurrection.
HELPS Word-studies
386 anástasis (from 303 /aná, "up, again" and 2476 /hístēmi, "to stand") – literally, "stand up" (or "stand again"), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).
Christ's physical resurrection is the foundation of Christianity, which also guarantees the future resurrection of all believers (see Jn 6:39,40,44).
[386 /anástasis ("resurrection") refers to the physical, bodily resurrection of Christ – and people (both of the redeemed and the unredeemed).]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
At the resurrection the bodies of those who have died in Christ from the on-set of the church until the time it happens, will come out of their graves or wherever their bodies died and will be changed immortal and glorified, having heavenly abilities.
If we were going to spend eternity in spirit form (no physical body), there would be no need for a resurrection and that because the spirits of all dead believers are already in Christ's presence.
Please look at the definition of the word anastasis above to get a better understanding of what the resurrection is.
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Reverlion states that the 1st and 2nd reserrection are seperated by 1000 years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
All will hear His voice and rise from the grave some in the 1st and the rest in the 2nd resurrection.
The resurrection of life; and the resurrection of damnation are seperated by 1000 years, and being part of the 2nd means damnation and the second death.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
I note that you are rather confused about this entire subject. But if you prefer confusion to clarity, so be it.
Re: State of the Dead. what happens when you die. ???
Wouldn't it be the opposite to what happened when you were born? Considering that your physical body originated from the cell fusion of two gametes into single cell called a zygote. Since the human body is not created by a zygote nor does it evolved a zygote but develops from the procreation of a single cell zygote into a ionized body of cells into living matter. I know, too deep.
But in simple words, death of the living matter occurs when its body of cells are no longer ionized, thus it becomes an inanimate cell of matter called a corpose. So if you see that flesh dies, then you see the light of the world, but if you die then there is no light in your flesh.
1 Thess 5:5-10
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Wouldn't it be the opposite to what happened when you were born? Considering that your physical body originated from the cell fusion of two gametes into single cell called a zygote. Since the human body is not created by a zygote nor does it evolved a zygote but develops from the procreation of a single cell zygote into a ionized body of cells into living matter. I know, too deep.
But in simple words, death of the living matter occurs when its body of cells are no longer ionized, thus it becomes an inanimate cell of matter called a corpose. So if you see that flesh dies, then you see the light of the world, but if you die then there is no light in your flesh.
1 Thess 5:5-10
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
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