State of the Dead. what happens when you die. ???

[Studyman]

Hello TMS,

According to all related scripture, both life and death are states of conscious existence.

Eternal Life = Unending conscious existence in the kingdom of God

Eternal Death = Unending conscious existence in separation from God in the Lake of fire.

God's immortality is that He is in himself is immortal having no beginning and no ending. The spirit/soul of human beings are immortal, but our bodies die and decay but the spirit lives on. At the time of death, the spirit of the believer departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord, conscious and aware. When the wicked die, their spirits depart and go into Sheol/Hades where they are in torment in flame conscious and aware.

At the resurrection, the spirits of those who died in Christ will be reunited with their resurrected bodies. After the millennial period, the spirits of the unsaved who died will come out of Sheol/Hades and will also receive resurrected bodies only to stand before God at the great white throne to be judged. They will spend eternity in the lake of fire in those resurrected bodies.

Although popular in mainstream religions, I don't believe scriptures support we are born immortal. First, we do have a beginning, and destruction in the lake of fire as an end. According to the Bible, immortality is a gift we don't already have.

1 Cor. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Rom. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eternal life means living forever.

Eternal Death means being dead forever.

 

[prove-all]

That is hardly a reason to claim that they will live on earth.

We read in Romans 4:13 that Abraham will be heir "to the world"

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

But the meek shall inherit the earth;
and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace

 

[Waggles]

Hello Waggles,
I noticed you use Strong's reference numbers a lot. Do you have an online accessible version to recommend? My having to use my hard copy with the fine print is really inconvenient.
Yours,
Deade

A bloke named, Rick Meyers, has developed a most excellent computer Bible program
"e-sword: the sword of the LORD with an electronic edge"

there is a free limited download copy that gives access to a couple of Bible versions
and to a couple of dictionaries.
Or you can make a donation of like $25+ and purchase from Rick the whole shebang in
which you get multipole Bible versions, dictionaries galore, commentaries, maps, etc.
It is a big program.

One of the best features is that one can highlight a single verse and click on 'compare' and
then all the versions of that one verse are listed one under the other.

check it out at www.e-sword.net

 

[Waggles]

Peter explains a few things to us all in

Acts chapter 2:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not
possible that he should be holden of it.
25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face,
for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad;
moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer
thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full
of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David,
that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him,
that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ
to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ,
that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Acts 2:
In verses 27 and 31 the word hell is Strong's G86 'Hades'
properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.

​27 because Thou wilt not leave my soul to hades, nor wilt Thou give Thy Kind One to see corruption;

 

[Nehemiah6]

Although popular in mainstream religions...

You are calling Bible Christianity "mainstream religions". So what is better, mainstream religions or the lunatic fringe?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Eternal Death means being dead forever.

So now you are inventing your own doctrine. Eternal death does not mean "dead forever". Read and study Revelation 20 and 21.

 

[pottersclay]

When a Christian dies their soul sleeps in a place referred to as Hades (Greek) or Sheol (Hebrew).
Hell is the grave where our bodies do their thing in the ground.
Confusion arises because of the inconsistencies in Bible translations, such as the KJV.
Also Hades and Hell are not of eternal condemnation and the fire that is never quenched
(Isaiah 66:24)

The scriptures that refer to death describe death as a "sleep" wherein there is no consciousness, no praise and no remembrance. The dead simply sleep awaiting resurrection to judgment.

5 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.
12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
Psalm 88: is representative of many scriptures referring to death and the grave as the land of darkness for everybody.

The dead do not worry, not are they subject to tribulation or temptation any more - they are at rest; hence the euphemism to sleep.

It is not physical death that one should fear - for all die - but rather spiritual death and not entering the eternities with God.

When a Christian dies they are with the Lord. I think you are referring to what is described in the new testament as Abrahams bosom which does not exist any more since Christ has risen. He has set those captives free. No one untill Christ's rose entered heaven. The gates were closed and guarded.
Remember the veil was torn we have access to God 24/7 in life as well as in death praise Jesus.

 

[TMS]

Elijah in Heaven now ? Heaven Defined

“Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them”
This word heavens refers to two different heavens. (Gen. 2:1)

The first heaven consists of the Earth’s atmosphere. The second heaven is
the vast reaches of space beyond the atmosphere.

There is also a third heaven: the home of God. The Apostle Paul saw this “third heaven,”
where God’s throne is, in a vision (ii Cor. 12:1-2). This vision was so intensely realistic
that Paul was unable to tell if he was physically there, or if he was seeing it in his mind.

In Heb. 4:14, the phrase “into the heavens,” should be translated “through the heavens.”
We see that Jesus Christ passed through the first two heavens—Earth’s atmosphere and
outer space—as He ascended to the third heaven.

John 3:13 reveals that no man has ascended to heaven except for Jesus Christ.
Certainly many have ascended to the first and second heavens by aircraft, spacecraft and
other means,this verse can only refer to the third heaven, where the Almighty God resides.

Some have said that Elijah ascended to heaven, which he did—but not to the third
heaven. He was taken by chariots of fire up into the first heaven (ii Kings 2:11).
The Hebrew word used for heaven here is the same as in Genesis 2:1.

Elijah did not die during this experience. In fact, Elijah wrote a letter to King Jehoram
years after this event (ii Chron. 21:12). Elijah had been miraculously transported to
another location on Earth.


-
Moses "But no man knoweth his sepulchre unto this day."

I'm not sure how to explain John 3:13, but i know that Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus, so they were alive in Jesus's day. Than there's Enoch, and those that rose when Jesus died, this tells me that there are some exceptions, i mean a few that have been risen from the dead, before the great day of Jesus's second coming. They either went straight from Earth or where dead and were raised (no separation of spirit and body). Much the same as the second coming but on a much smaller scale.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Why in the air?
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body

1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.







You are correct about the 3 different Heavens, The 3rd is were Gods throne is, were the presence of God is (The Holy City in Rev). And Jesus said i go to prepare a place for you.

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

It can't be a place on Earth because Jesus is in the 3rd Heaven know. And we are told in Rev that we will be in the Holy City for 1000 years. Then the Holy City will come to Earth and the Earth will be recreated and death will be destroyed and we will be able to live on the Earth and also have a mansion in the Holy city.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
....
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Mat_5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.






I see Heaven as the Holy City out there in Space somewhere beyond human view, and it will be the place the Saints are taken when they are raise from the dead at the second coming. After 1000 years the city will come back to the Earth, and once cleansed of all sin and sinners(second death), it will be made new.

We don't understand all these point in every way, there are a few grey areas, ??? i don't know. but it doesn't matter, we both believe that the body and the spirit are not separated at death and that the spirit is not immortal, which is the big deception.

 

[TMS]

Hello TMS,

According to all related scripture, both life and death are states of conscious existence.

Eternal Life = Unending conscious existence in the kingdom of God

Eternal Death = Unending conscious existence in separation from God in the Lake of fire.

God's immortality is that He is in himself is immortal having no beginning and no ending. The spirit/soul of human beings are immortal, but our bodies die and decay but the spirit lives on. At the time of death, the spirit of the believer departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord, conscious and aware. When the wicked die, their spirits depart and go into Sheol/Hades where they are in torment in flame conscious and aware.

At the resurrection, the spirits of those who died in Christ will be reunited with their resurrected bodies. After the millennial period, the spirits of the unsaved who died will come out of Sheol/Hades and will also receive resurrected bodies only to stand before God at the great white throne to be judged. They will spend eternity in the lake of fire in those resurrected bodies.

This is unscriptural
Rom 6:23,
we do not have immortal spirits.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This is unscriptural
Rom 6:23,
we do not have immortal spirits.

I don't believe Rom 6:23 backs up your false beliefs at all. Check it out again.

 

[mcubed]

If saved go to heaven. If someone rejects Y-shua as Messiah go to hell. Who cares about inbetween. The end result is the same weather we fall a sleep or not before Y-shua returns and then opens the books.

 

[Deade]

OK TMS: Let us get this fixed in your head. Our treasures and mansions are in the heavenly realm. The heavenly realm is wherever God is. Don't throw away scripture to understand where are reward is. There is a heavenly realm right here on earth where the angels (or cherubim) reside. Sometimes the language in Revelation addresses that.

You wrote:
Heaven as the Holy City out there in Space somewhere beyond human view, and it will be the place the Saints are taken when they are raise from the dead at the second coming. After 1000 years the city will come back to the Earth, and once cleansed of all sin and sinners(second death), it will be made new.

We don't understand all these point in every way, there are a few grey areas, ??? i don't know. but it doesn't matter, we both believe that the body and the spirit are not separated at death and that the spirit is not immortal, which is the big deception.

Now what are we to do in heaven for 1000 years? Revelation points exactly where we will be:
Rev. 5:10: “And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.”

Rev. 20:6: “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Do not concentrate on our reward, but rather on how scripture fits together. You are very close to the truth on most of your postings. The Holy Spirit wants you to have more.

 

[Waggles]

We are all unrighteous every one of us through Adam and
our carnal natures.
The fate for every natural person is death.
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of
the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:4

Now we can begin to understand why Jesus came into the world
as a propitiation for our sins that we may through obedience to
the gospel of salvation receive ... atonement and grace and mercy:

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:23

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in
the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life:
he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.
Believest thou this?
John 11:

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through
righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 5:21

But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith,
praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our
Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jude 1:20-21

 

[Ahwatukee]

[QUOTE=TMS;3440320]This is unscriptural
Rom 6:23,
we do not have immortal spirits.[/QUOTE]

The information that I gave you is all from cross-referencing and comparing scripture.

The event of the rich man and Lazarus is proof of this, demonstrating that after both Lazarus and the rich man died their bodies were buried. Yet, we find their spirits in Sheol/Hades with Lazarus in that place of comfort/paradise and the rich man in that place across from them in torment in flame. This is indeed scriptural, because you can read it for yourself. If you are one of those who interprets the event of the rich and man and Lazarus as being a parable, by doing so you get rid of the scriptural evidence of that after the death of the body, the spirit is conscious and aware.

We also have Moses and Elijah appearing with Jesus when he was transfigured. The popular apologetic to this is that Moses and Elijah were just visions, yet the scripture states that they were having a conversation with Jesus. I guess somebody forgot to tell Moses that he's supposed to be sleeping or non existent.

Then we have the opening of the 5th seal, where John sees the souls of those who were killed by those on the earth. They protesting to the Lord and are given white robes to wear and told to wait a little longer.

We have also have Jesus telling the man who was crucified next to him saying "today you will be with me in paradise." This would beg the question: "since both Jesus and that man both died that very day, how could they be in paradise after they died?" The answer is that, once their bodies died, their spirits departed and went to that place where Abraham and Lazarus were, that place of comfort/paradise, which was across from where the rich man was in torment in flame.

This is proper exegesis to cross-reference and compare these scriptures in order to come to a right conclusion regarding the issue of what happens to the spirit/soul after the death of the body. Unfortunately, many expositors will use already existing apologetics and go right down the list of these scriptural proofs to discredit or circumvent them. One of the more popular ones being that regarding Jesus telling the man next to him that he would be with him in paradise that very day. The following is their apologetic:

Correct sentence structure = "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

False apologetic = "Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise."

Their claim is that the comma is in the wrong place. The correct translation focuses on them being in paradise that very day. And the apologetic puts the focus on when Jesus was telling the man this information. It make Jesus sound like he's doing Shakespeare in the park "Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise!" It is a ridiculous apologetic!

Therefore, in response to your claim "we do not have immortal spirits" I refer you to Moses, Jesus and the man crucified with Christ and the rich man and Lazarus. And there many more proofs, but if you don't see the reasoning behind these, then there is no sense in providing the others, because you supporting your belief that you have adopted and there is no scripture that can change your mind.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." - Rom.6:23

The on-going error that you and others make regarding the scripture above and others, is not understanding the definition of death and it isn't annihilation or nonexistence.

As I pointed out before, both life and death are conscious states of existence, which I have proven with the scriptural examples above. The problem is that you and others only apply partial scriptures to support your belief, while discrediting or circumventing the scriptures that support the opposite. If I was to paraphrase Rom.6:23, it would go like this:

"The reward for sin is conscious awareness in separation from God in the lake of fire, but the gift of God is eternal life, conscious and aware, through the Lord Jesus Christ."

Death = Eternal separation from God, conscious and aware in the lake of fire

Life = Eternal conscious existence in the joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God

 

[Ahwatukee]

Although popular in mainstream religions, I don't believe scriptures support we are born immortal. First, we do have a beginning, and destruction in the lake of fire as an end. According to the Bible, immortality is a gift we don't already have.

1 Cor. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Rom. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eternal life means living forever.

Eternal Death means being dead forever.

Hello Studyman, please see post #134. Your reasoning is the same in that, you don't understand the definition of death based on the rest of the scriptures. If you don't believe that the spirit/soul departs from the body at the time of death, then tell that to the rich man who went to Hades and is still there. The word death is what throws everyone off, interpreting it as meaning non-existence, when it is a description of ones state-of-being with God after leaving the body unredeemed.

 

[Ahwatukee]

A bloke named, Rick Meyers, has developed a most excellent computer Bible program
"e-sword: the sword of the LORD with an electronic edge"

there is a free limited download copy that gives access to a couple of Bible versions
and to a couple of dictionaries.
Or you can make a donation of like $25+ and purchase from Rick the whole shebang in
which you get multipole Bible versions, dictionaries galore, commentaries, maps, etc.
It is a big program.

One of the best features is that one can highlight a single verse and click on 'compare' and
then all the versions of that one verse are listed one under the other.

check it out at www.e-sword.net

Hi Waggles,

I have a much better application which is complete and free, which I have been using for many years. It allows me to look all of the major translations of any given scripture side by side, the interlinear, the Strong's and Word Help definitions of Hebrew and Greek words and how many times the word is used and where they are used, Lexicons, Biblical dictionaries, Hebrew and Greek, maps, commentaries, and many, many more tools.

Bible Hub: Search, Read, Study the Bible in Many Languages

 

[TMS]

The information that I gave you is all from cross-referencing and comparing scripture.

The event of the rich man and Lazarus is proof of this, demonstrating that after both Lazarus and the rich man died their bodies were buried. Yet, we find their spirits in Sheol/Hades with Lazarus in that place of comfort/paradise and the rich man in that place across from them in torment in flame. This is indeed scriptural, because you can read it for yourself. If you are one of those who interprets the event of the rich and man and Lazarus as being a parable, by doing so you get rid of the scriptural evidence of that after the death of the body, the spirit is conscious and aware.

We also have Moses and Elijah appearing with Jesus when he was transfigured. The popular apologetic to this is that Moses and Elijah were just visions, yet the scripture states that they were having a conversation with Jesus. I guess somebody forgot to tell Moses that he's supposed to be sleeping or non existent.

Then we have the opening of the 5th seal, where John sees the souls of those who were killed by those on the earth. They protesting to the Lord and are given white robes to wear and told to wait a little longer.

We have also have Jesus telling the man who was crucified next to him saying "today you will be with me in paradise." This would beg the question: "since both Jesus and that man both died that very day, how could they be in paradise after they died?" The answer is that, once their bodies died, their spirits departed and went to that place where Abraham and Lazarus were, that place of comfort/paradise, which was across from where the rich man was in torment in flame.

This is proper exegesis to cross-reference and compare these scriptures in order to come to a right conclusion regarding the issue of what happens to the spirit/soul after the death of the body. Unfortunately, many expositors will use already existing apologetics and go right down the list of these scriptural proofs to discredit or circumvent them. One of the more popular ones being that regarding Jesus telling the man next to him that he would be with him in paradise that very day. The following is their apologetic:

Correct sentence structure = "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

False apologetic = "Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise."

Their claim is that the comma is in the wrong place. The correct translation focuses on them being in paradise that very day. And the apologetic puts the focus on when Jesus was telling the man this information. It make Jesus sound like he's doing Shakespeare in the park "Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise!" It is a ridiculous apologetic!

Therefore, in response to your claim "we do not have immortal spirits" I refer you to Moses, Jesus and the man crucified with Christ and the rich man and Lazarus. And there many more proofs, but if you don't see the reasoning behind these, then there is no sense in providing the others, because you supporting your belief that you have adopted and there is no scripture that can change your mind.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." - Rom.6:23

The on-going error that you and others make regarding the scripture above and others, is not understanding the definition of death and it isn't annihilation or nonexistence.

As I pointed out before, both life and death are conscious states of existence, which I have proven with the scriptural examples above. The problem is that you and others only apply partial scriptures to support your belief, while discrediting or circumventing the scriptures that support the opposite. If I was to paraphrase Rom.6:23, it would go like this:

"The reward for sin is conscious awareness in separation from God in the lake of fire, but the gift of God is eternal life, conscious and aware, through the Lord Jesus Christ."

Death = Eternal separation from God, conscious and aware in the lake of fire

Life = Eternal conscious existence in the joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God

If this is true, Either way the gift of God is eternal life, one is in hell and the other is in the presence of God.

Regarding Hell (as you see it), If we have eternal life and it is not from God, that would mean that we have eternal life in our own power, or we just have eternal life without God (immortality) and only God has immortality. And if we have it from God that means God keeps us alive to suffer for eternity. Now that isn't Just, no matter how much sin we do in 70 or 100 years, suffering for eternity is not a just reward.
Hell was invented by the catholic church in the dark ages.

 

[TMS]

I think peoples minds are made up.

change the meaning of death = a way different view.
change what a living soul is = a way different view.

Just make sure you have a close walk with Jesus, the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Him.

When we die, if we die we will find out.

But i want to say a major deception of the Devil will be spiritualism and using spirits of the dead to communicate with the living. If the Satan can appear as an angel of light than he can lie to you as well. Test all things.

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I think peoples minds are made up.

change the meaning of death = a way different view.
change what a living soul is = a way different view.

Just make sure you have a close walk with Jesus, the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Him.

When we die, if we die we will find out.

But i want to say a major deception of the Devil will be spiritualism and using spirits of the dead to communicate with the living. If the Satan can appear as an angel of light than he can lie to you as well. Test all things.

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

As usual and as others do, you ignored the proofs of scripture that I gave you. You give no explanation for them, but instead make the claim of changing the meaning of death. If you see scripture demonstrating the conscious awareness of the spirit after the death of the body, then you must include that information in coming to your conclusion, which you and others are not doing. It is incomplete exegesis on your part.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Regarding Hell (as you see it), If we have eternal life and it is not from God, that would mean that we have eternal life in our own power, or we just have eternal life without God (immortality) and only God has immortality.

Hold it! Nobody said that "we have eternal life and it is not from God." You inserted this into the conversation, as I never said this. To be clear, our spirits/souls exist forever and that by God's doing. He's the One who gives us existence. Life and Death are both conscious states of existence and are both related to ones "state-of-being" in regards to God, whether reconciled or unreconciled, after the death of the body.

Hell was invented by the catholic church in the dark ages.

The above is a false statement, as I can read all about Hades and the lake of fire right here in the Greek scriptures, which Catholicism had nothing to do with. Jesus himself spoke about everlasting fire throughout the gospels.