Not By Works

[Ralph-]

WRONG....not good to change the words of Jesus.

I did not change Jesus' words. Here they are.

31“But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32“All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34“Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’41“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”"-Matthew 25:31-46

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

You know for sure if you have passed from death to life and are ready to meet him when he comes back by if you are producing the fruit of the kingdom.

"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other."-1 John 3:14


So make your calling and election sure. In other words, make sure you are really saved...produce the fruit of the kingdom.


"make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things (see vs.5-7), you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."-2 Peter 1:10-11


If you find you are not saved and have not passed from death to life, get connected to the vine. Receive Christ's forgiveness by trusting in it and be changed into a branch that can bear the fruit of the kingdom.

(you = anybody)

 

[Ralph-]

Matthew 25: 34

...the people are already believers because they were born again and had received His righteousness.

That's what I've been saying.

 

[stonesoffire]

When he comes back he will save those who are already saved in him by faith, their works being the evidence of that faith, and he will condemn those who aren't, their works being the evidence of their lack of faith.

You'l have to ask him why he said in Matthew 25:31-46 that he will use works as the evidence of us having faith in him instead of him just deciding based on what he already knows. The point is he did in fact say that's what he's going to do. I know that doesn't fit in with what the church has taught us, but maybe, just maybe we need to be good Bereans and start going with what the word actually says, not what the church says.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, accompanied by all the angels, he will sit on his glorious throne.

32 All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates sheep from goats.

33 The ‘sheep’ he will place at his right hand and the ‘goats’ at his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take your inheritance, the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world.

35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you made me your guest,

36 I needed clothes and you provided them, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’

This is the GWT judgement Ralph. The body of Christ will be with Jesus, not judged here.

 

[Ralph-]

Wrong, he said we will be acquitted or condemned based on our faith (he who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already)

Again, You have a fetish with works. Take your eyes off yourself and plant them on Christ, thats your only hope.

You are saved by faith apart from works-Romans 4:6.
But no person was saved by a 'faith' that did not then produce works-James 2:14.

Works show if the faith that produced those works really saved that person or not. This is how we know if we are really saved and ready to meet him or not, by our works. Faith that is dead, having no works, is the faith that does not save. Works show you have the faith that saves.


"if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?"
"I will show you my faith (that saves) by my deeds."-James 2:14,18

 

[dcontroversal]

He does not need outward proof. But he has decided that we will be acquitted or condemned on the testimony of our lives. He doesn't have to do that, but he will. That's what he plainly said he will do.

Wrong again...by thy words thou shalt be justified or condemned....not by our works.....BELIEVE and CONFESS JESUS = SAVED <--justified by faith and the imputed righteousness of Christ

wake up.....

 

[Ralph-]

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, accompanied by all the angels, he will sit on his glorious throne.

32 All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates sheep from goats.

33 The ‘sheep’ he will place at his right hand and the ‘goats’ at his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take your inheritance, the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world.

35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you made me your guest,

36 I needed clothes and you provided them, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’

This is the GWT judgement Ralph. The body of Christ will be with Jesus, not judged here.

ALL saved people are the body of Christ. These are saved people, the body of Christ, entering into the kingdom.

 

[dcontroversal]

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, accompanied by all the angels, he will sit on his glorious throne.

32 All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates sheep from goats.

33 The ‘sheep’ he will place at his right hand and the ‘goats’ at his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take your inheritance, the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world.

35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you made me your guest,

36 I needed clothes and you provided them, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’

This is the GWT judgement Ralph. The body of Christ will be with Jesus, not judged here.

We need to stick with the milk for his sake.........meat belongs to them who are of a full age....until one fully understands salvation in the biblical sense based upon faith....all else = a waste of time

 

[UnderGrace]

Nope, I do not believe that God needs evidence of salvation by our works...it is you that states that, and you are reading that into the passage.

When he comes back he will save those who are already saved in him by faith, their works being the evidence of that faith, and he will condemn those who aren't, their works being the evidence of their lack of faith.

That's what I've been saying.

 

[Ralph-]

Wrong again...by thy words thou shalt be justified or condemned....not by our works.....BELIEVE and CONFESS JESUS = SAVED <--justified by faith and the imputed righteousness of Christ

wake up.....

You are only capable of understanding being saved from the fire on the evidence of your works as meaning those works earn salvation for you. But that is not what is happening in Matthew 25. Our works are just the outward sign of the faith that saved us while we were still in the body.

Jesus separates those who believe and are saved from those who don't believe and are lost by how they lived their lives in this age, their lives testifying to whether or not they had faith in Christ in this life for salvation. That's not a works gospel, but I understand how it is that the church is only capable of seeing it as a works gospel, so they reject what Jesus taught.

 

[Ralph-]

Nope, I do not believe that God needs evidence of salvation by our works...it is you that states that, and you are reading that into the passage.

Right, he does not need evidence. He knows all. But the passage plainly says he uses the testimony of each person's life as the evidence upon which he condemns or acquits them. It's right there in the passage. But I understand how it is that the church can not see his plain words.

 

[Ralph-]

We need to stick with the milk for his sake.........meat belongs to them who are of a full age....until one fully understands salvation in the biblical sense based upon faith....all else = a waste of time

If you do not have the 'all else' when Jesus comes back he will condemn you as an unbeliever and you will go to the left into the fire, while everyone who does have the 'all else' will go to the right into the kingdom. That is what Jesus plainly said.

 

[stonesoffire]

ALL saved people are the body of Christ. These are saved people, the body of Christ, entering into the kingdom.

Notice where it says nations?

 

[dcontroversal]

You are only capable of understanding being saved from the fire on the evidence of your works as meaning those works earn salvation for you. But that is not what is happening in Matthew 25. Our works are just the outward sign of the faith that saved us while we were still in the body.

Jesus separates those who believe and are saved from those who don't believe and are lost by how they lived their lives in this age, their lives testifying to whether or not they had faith in Christ in this life for salvation. That's not a works gospel, but I understand how it is that the church is only capable of seeing it as a works gospel, so they reject what Jesus taught.

Wrong....I suggest you stick with watching Jeopardy or something, because I have consistently said our works have zero to do with salvation. If you for one minute think the bolded above, that tells me you have no idea about what I believe or have said like 5000 times in this thread........faith ALONE is what saves a man...the JUST shall live by FAITH.....there are NO scriptures in context that state a man is saved BY WORKS, kept saved by works or that salvation is topped off or embellished by our works.....It seems that YOU, Phart and Fran all go to the same church-o-works

 

[stonesoffire]

We need to stick with the milk for his sake.........meat belongs to them who are of a full age....until one fully understands salvation in the biblical sense based upon faith....all else = a waste of time

I though knowing the,two different judgements was milk.

 

[dcontroversal]

If you do not have the 'all else' when Jesus comes back he will condemn you as an unbeliever and you will go to the left into the fire, while everyone who does have the 'all else' will go to the right into the kingdom. That is what Jesus plainly said.

Wrong again....when I see the blood I will pass over you....the blood is applied by faith not works....

As many times as you get it wrong, one would think you have never studied the bible, much less even read it.....

 

[Speak2Me]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ellicott

Always good to know who the commentator is...cause sometimes they do not get it right.

I am still amazed at those who will push self help salvation, and deny the grace of God, while all the same denying that is what they are doing.

We can find a commentator for about every belief out there. Search hard enough you will find one to support you.

Benson Commentary
Hebrews 10:26-27. For, &c. — As if he had said, It concerns us to use all means to ensure our perseverance, because apostacy is so dangerous; if we— Any of us Christians; sin wilfully — By total apostacy from God; (see on Hebrews 6:4 after we have received the knowledge of the truth — As it is in Jesus, namely, an experimental and practical knowledge thereof, so as to have been made free thereby from the guilt and power of sin; there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins — None but that which we obstinately reject. “As the apostle, in the former part of the epistle, had proved that the sacrifices of the law were all abolished, and that the only sacrifice for sin remaining was the sacrifice of Christ, it followed that apostates, who wilfully renounced the benefit of that sacrifice, had no sacrifice for sin whatever remaining to them.” But a certain fearful looking for — Φοβερα δε τις εκδοχη, a kind of fearful expectation: intimating something inexpressible, such as no heart could conceive or tongue describe. Thus St. Peter, 1 Epist. 1 Peter 4:17-18, What shall be the end of them who obey not the gospel? Where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Of judgment and fiery indignation. The apostle refers both to the final judgment of the great day, when apostates from the religion of Jesus, as well as those who obstinately rejected it, shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, &c., 2 Thessalonians 1:9; and also to the dreadful and fiery indignation which God was about to bring on the unbelieving and obstinate Jews, in the total destruction of their city and temple by sword and fire, devouring them, as adversaries to God and his Christ, of all others the most inexcusable. The reader should observe that the apostle lays it down here as certain, that God will not pardon sinners without some sacrifice or satisfaction. For otherwise it would not follow, from there remaining to apostates no more sacrifice for sin, that there must remain to them a dreadful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation. In these last words, the conflagration of the heaven and the earth at the day of judgment seems especially to be referred to.

I believe the count is 2 now.

 

[Speak2Me]

ive never read the bible with a commentator

Seeing the direction yer going, I can believe that.

 

[dcontroversal]

Benson Commentary
Hebrews 10:26-27. For, &c. — As if he had said, It concerns us to use all means to ensure our perseverance, because apostacy is so dangerous; if we— Any of us Christians; sin wilfully — By total apostacy from God; (see on Hebrews 6:4 after we have received the knowledge of the truth — As it is in Jesus, namely, an experimental and practical knowledge thereof, so as to have been made free thereby from the guilt and power of sin; there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins — None but that which we obstinately reject. “As the apostle, in the former part of the epistle, had proved that the sacrifices of the law were all abolished, and that the only sacrifice for sin remaining was the sacrifice of Christ, it followed that apostates, who wilfully renounced the benefit of that sacrifice, had no sacrifice for sin whatever remaining to them.” But a certain fearful looking for — Φοβερα δε τις εκδοχη, a kind of fearful expectation: intimating something inexpressible, such as no heart could conceive or tongue describe. Thus St. Peter, 1 Epist. 1 Peter 4:17-18, What shall be the end of them who obey not the gospel? Where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Of judgment and fiery indignation. The apostle refers both to the final judgment of the great day, when apostates from the religion of Jesus, as well as those who obstinately rejected it, shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, &c., 2 Thessalonians 1:9; and also to the dreadful and fiery indignation which God was about to bring on the unbelieving and obstinate Jews, in the total destruction of their city and temple by sword and fire, devouring them, as adversaries to God and his Christ, of all others the most inexcusable. The reader should observe that the apostle lays it down here as certain, that God will not pardon sinners without some sacrifice or satisfaction. For otherwise it would not follow, from there remaining to apostates no more sacrifice for sin, that there must remain to them a dreadful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation. In these last words, the conflagration of the heaven and the earth at the day of judgment seems especially to be referred to.

I believe the count is 2 now.

Citing a commentary does not even come close to winning an argument.......context alone settles it, and it does not teach the loss or forfeiture of salvation.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Seeing the direction yer going, I can believe that.

His direction is good.......his trust and faith is in Christ...not some self help guru working for dogma with no power to save a flea, much less a man......

 

[UnderGrace]

Wrong again. your statement underlined below, removes the truth of justification and the imputed righteousness of Jesus which is
the central truth of the Gospel, being justified by faith in Jesus apart from works....... end of story!

Right, he does not need evidence. He knows all. But the passage plainly says he uses the testimony of each person's life as the evidence upon which he condemns or acquits them. It's right there in the passage. But I understand how it is that the church can not see his plain words.