How To Be Un-Saved

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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I BELIEVE that we are saved by GRACE alone through FAITH ALONE but I believe the rest of God's Word that says...

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

Romans 1
5,
By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

Romans 6
1, What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that GRACE may abound? God forbid. 2, How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


DOES FAITH ABOLISH GOD'S LAW?

Romans 3
31,
Do we then ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

How is my belief in the scriptures here different from yours?




Bill, I thought you believed similar to what I have stated above as I do. Was I incorrect? Do you believe in OSAS aka HYPERGRACE?

What's your defenition of Hypergrace?

Add I understand it Hypergrace is along the lines of "You can sin all you want and your still saved"

Paul addressed this in Romans 6. Grace is not a licence to sin.

To me neither is OSAS saying the same thing.
If OSAS is saying it's ok to sin, carry on as if nothing has happened then it's Hypergrace.

But I can't see anyone who believes in OSAS saying it's ok to carry on as you are and it's covered.

The difference between the two is HG week say it's covered, OSAS will say different and hopefully come alongside a brother to find out why they are struggling.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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What's your defenition of Hypergrace?

Add I understand it Hypergrace is along the lines of "You can sin all you want and your still saved"

Paul addressed this in Romans 6. Grace is not a licence to sin.

To me neither is OSAS saying the same thing.
If OSAS is saying it's ok to sin, carry on as if nothing has happened then it's Hypergrace.

But I can't see anyone who believes in OSAS saying it's ok to carry on as you are and it's covered.

The difference between the two is HG week say it's covered, OSAS will say different and hopefully come alongside a brother to find out why they are struggling.
To me I can't see the difference between OSAS and HYPERGRACE.

They mean the same thing. OSAS teaches you can sin and still be saved, and cannot lose your salvation or and depart from Christ and return to the world of sin.

That is the same as HYPERGRACE. So what is the difference? Sorry just trying to get my head around it all. Thanks for sharing your thougts Bill.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
:( Ugh!! Here we go with the hypergrace rumors again.

Licentiousness. That is the term for a person who thinks he can say a prayer and he is saved no matter what and can live however he wants.

Hypergrace - The belief that Gods grace is so abundant, it will never run out. These people do NOT believe you can sin all you want.

Lets please try to get terms right so we do nto start another war..
 
Jun 5, 2017
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:( Ugh!! Here we go with the hypergrace rumors again.

Licentiousness. That is the term for a person who thinks he can say a prayer and he is saved no matter what and can live however he wants.

Hypergrace - The belief that Gods grace is so abundant, it will never run out. These people do NOT believe you can sin all you want.

Lets please try to get terms right so we do nto start another war..
So EG,

HYPERGRACE or OSAS does BELIEVE you can be LOST and you can LOSE your salvation if you CONTINUE in a LIFE of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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In James 2:19, we read that the demons "believe" as well. Is that also good enough for you? Are the demons saved?

John has portrayed people as "believing" who are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine or consummated belief" which would have resulted in salvation." See John 2:23-25, where their "belief" is clearly superficial in nature.

*Also, in John 8:31,34,37,44,55,59 where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus, children of the devil, liars, and guilty of setting out to stone the one they have professed to believe in.

After Jesus’ teaching in John 6:60, we see that "many of his disciples said, "this is a difficult statement, who can listen to it?" These are the very so called "disciples" who Jesus says "do not believe" (John 6:64). They also walked with Him no more. They did not continue. In John 8:31, Jesus said - If we continue in His word, then we demonstrate that we are TRULY His disciples. Those who fail to continue in His word demonstrate that they are NOT TRULY His disciples.

At least you admit that Judas was NOT saved. Those who are in the NOSAS camp usually argue that Judas was saved then lost his salvation.

Yes, God does do things which seem foolish to mere mortals:

1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God...21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
I personally believe that the parable of the sower is misunderstood and my view is as follows....

first guy is lost....does not believe the the word

next three are saved but descriptive of what takes place in all believers....

some have no real growth and in immaturity get offended by something resulting in the "twice a year" church goers with no decent fruit production

some are saved but allow worldliness and "living life" to choke down their fruit production

some are saved, fed, mature and produce an abundance

This can be seen in every church that teaches biblical salvation...
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
So EG,

HYPERGRACE or OSAS does BELIEVE you can be LOST and you can LOSE your salvation if you CONTINUE in a LIFE of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?
nope

they believe you are no longer lost when you are born again of incorruptible seed

given a new heart and spirit

and now are a child of God

forever
:)


you impute a lot of your own misunderstanding in this...
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,907
4,349
113
To me I can't see the difference between OSAS and HYPERGRACE. They mean the same thing. OSAS teaches you can sin and still be saved, That is the same as HYPERGRACE. So what is the difference? Sorry just trying to get my head around it all. Thanks for sharing your thougts Bill.
I think they do.

Martin Lloyd Jones said

[h=1]“If your preaching of the gospel of God's free grace in Jesus Christ does not provoke the charge from some of antinomianism, you're not preaching the gospel of the free grace of God in Jesus Christ.”[/h]
I have his writings that cover this, Romans 5-8.

Romans 6 covers the new man. The new man in Christ.

Good to talk with you as always.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
nope

they believe you are no longer lost when you are born again of incorruptible seed

given a new heart and spirit

and now a child of God

forever
:)


you impute a lot of your own misunderstanding in this...

And I will add, they believe you CAN NOT live in unrepentant sin as stated by John in his epistle. (A child of God can not sin, he who sins has neither seen God or known him)

I can nto see what LGF posts. So I figure I would answer him by your posts and your quote.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,907
4,349
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Anyway peeps.

Is off to bed.

Been snowed in today. Sat here all day in my dressing gown.

I love snow. I love watching it fall, settle.

Been watching it all day.

When I see it it always reminds me of Job.
God says to him

Job 38:22
22 “Have you entered the treasury of snow,
Or have you seen the treasury of hail,

My understanding is that Job would not have known snow was.

Makes me think.

Do I truly know God.
His nature, his magnificence, his grace, his love.

What about you my friends?
 
Jun 5, 2017
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nope

they believe you are no longer lost when you are born again of incorruptible seed

given a new heart and spirit

and now are a child of God

forever
:)

you impute a lot of your own misunderstanding in this...
Thanks NNM,
yes my understanding is from God's WORD that says..

1 John 3
6,
Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Thanks for your reply but it did not answer my question which was...

Does HYPERGRACE or OSAS does BELIEVE you can be LOST and you can LOSE your salvation if you CONTINUE in a LIFE of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?

Sorry... I just re-visited your post that says you cannot be lost. This is as I thought. Therefore a false Gospel as the bible teaches those who continue in SIN will indeed be lost.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Anyway peeps.

Is off to bed.

Been snowed in today. Sat here all day in my dressing gown.

I love snow. I love watching it fall, settle.

Been watching it all day.

When I see it it always reminds me of Job.
God says to him

Job 38:22
22 “Have you entered the treasury of snow,
Or have you seen the treasury of hail,

My understanding is that Job would not have known snow was.

Makes me think.

Do I truly know God.
His nature, his magnificence, his grace, his love.

What about you my friends?

Sweet dreams
 
Jun 5, 2017
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SO guys your OSAS or HYPERGRACE GOSPEL seems a little confusing one person says you cannot lose your salvation by continuing in SIN and the other says you can lose your salvation if you continue in SIN which is it?

Isn't the OSAS or HYPERGRACE belief only a continuation of the first LIE spoken by the DEVIL to EVE in the Garden of Eden that if you brake God's Commandments you will not surely due? When God says you will surely die?

Just saking as I cannot see the difference here. Thanks
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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No, You will stick to what your heart desires.

I will stick to what the greek says also. Whoever comes to a state of belief will receive the food from God which endures forever. And who ever recieves this gift from God will..

never hunger
never thirst
will live forever
will never die
has past from death to life
will live as long as Jesus remains alive
will be resurrected by Jesus.
will NEVER be lost
will be risen by him on the last day.

Either Jesus meant every word he said, or he did not.


He did not say they will only have these things as long as they continue to believe, those are your words.

again, Continue to trust yourself to earn eternal life by your power to believe. I will continue to trust God and his ability to keep me from falling. and continue to accomplish when he promised he would finish.
Amen and if we believe not (after belief) he ABIDES FAITHFUL BECAUSE HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF!!!!!
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
SO guys your OSAS or HYPERGRACE GOSPEL seems a little confusing one person says you cannot lose your salvation by continuing in SIN and the other says you can lose your salvation if you continue in SIN which is it?

Isn't the OSAS or HYPERGRACE belief only a continuation of the first LIE spoken by the DEVIL to EVE in the Garden of Eden that if you brake God's Commandments you will not surely due? When God says you will surely die?

Just saking as I cannot see the difference here. Thanks
OSAS

means once saved always saved

it means this believer has a new heart and spirit placed in them

the sins they used to love so much when they were of the world

now breaks them

they have repented from unbelief
and God is working repentance in them

3340. metanoeó ►
Strong's Concordance
metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose
Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.



they cannot and will not lose salvation

because they are now Gods children

by grace through faith

and they will be judged according to the WHOLE law
but covered by the righteousness of Jesus
not their own

so they are seen as perfect

regardless of their works of the flesh
or how much fruit the spirit bares in them

its the gospel...

100% biblical





Romans 4
4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.


5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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I do not see how you can not see you are saying exactly what I am claiming you are saying.

A sheep is always a sheep. Jesus purchased his sheep with his own blood. They not only know who their master is, they always hear him, and they always follow after him (that is the meaning by what he wrote. My sheep hear my voice, and they follow.

OK, Here is where our difference comes in. You are adding to the text when you say: "a sheep is always a sheep": it does not say that. Even so, I agree that "a sheep is always a sheep". Right now at this moment any sheep I look at is a sheep. But that does not mean that that sheep will always be a sheep! (That sheep could die, rot, and be absorbed into the soil - then those nutrients could go into the grass, and a goat eats the grass: now the sheep is a goat! LOL!) But all such banter as I give in this paragraph is really pointless to the discussion because the text doesn't say any of it!

I agree that a sheep is always hearing and always following. That is the characteristic of a sheep: exactly! But as I pointed out earlier, we dare not make the present tense into a future tense and say: "the sheep
will always follow."

Nothing in the passage says his sheep can be his sheep one minute, then the next minute not be his sheep.

Now you are getting somewhere! Neither does it say anywhere that this will not happen. The text is silent on this issue. All it says is that the sheep who are following and hearing have the promises of verses 28,29.


Why would anyone even claim this? (A sheep can not go to his master and say I do nto want to be yiiouyr sheep any more. I want to be that persons sheep)

Now you are back to using rhetorical questions! And your statement in parentheses! Do you know sheep? Have you ever had a pet sheep for five years and then sold the sheep to a neighbor! Show up at your neighbor's farm the next day and see if that sheep will "want" to go back to its first owner! LOL! (of course, sheep can't talk!)



And again, I am using the present tense verb as you use it in John 3. WHoeer is presently believing, has eternal life (if believing stops then they do not have eternal life)’ you can not have it one way in one passage, then not have it another way in another passage,

I am not sure what your point is here, really. Of course I am interpreting John 10:27-29 using present tense verbs (that is what they are).

In John 3:16 - the one who is continuing to believe = has the promise that he shall not perish
In John 10:27 - the sheep are continuing to hear and continuing to follow = have the promises of verses 28,29



See my answers in red above.

By the way, EG, thanks for this respectful and challenging discussion.
 
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Sorry don't get what your saying.

Would you mind clarifying for me.
Sure.

Free-grace/hyper-grace is the biggest heresies going, with millions of converts.I dare say they are now bigger than OSAS because they are converting to it.

They are not a minority.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
Romans 4
4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.


5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Paul is teaching the Romans about the Grace of God. In chapters 4-8, Paul uses Abraham as an example to show that individuals were not justified through obedience to the law of Moses—they were justified through faith in God’s promises. Since Abraham lived centuries before the law of Moses was given, he was an ideal example. He then segues into a quote from David from Psalms:

Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, "Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." (Romans 4:6-8 emphasis added)

Compare with David's words in Psalms:

"Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile." (Psalm 32:1-2 emphasis added)

Christ suffered for the sins of all humanity, it is only through his grace that we are saved, that is what these verses are trying to communicate. By God's grace all men may have a portion of Christ's righteousness (God imputeth righteousness) and be cleansed of all our sins (the Lord imputeth not iniquity)

Impute
To attribute (righteousness, guilt, sin, iniquity, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another.`

When Christ suffered the pains of the atonement he took upon him all the sins of the world, he bore the burden of sin for every single person on earth and suffered terrible anguish in our behalf. Figuratively speaking, in that act, he sinned–vicariously–through us. He felt the pains of remorse that all of us would feel because of our sins, he gained a perfect knowledge of the trials and tribulations of every one of God's children. He took all of our sins upon himself, and if we but follow him, then he will forgive us of every one of them.

_________________________


^^^^^^^


not my words
this man explained it in more detail than i would have


everyone probably agrees that this is what His (Jesus) sacrifice was for.....


____________

john 3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(Jesus using a worldly anology to explain something spiritual)

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
(worldly thinking)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Born of water (actual birth worldly)
(of the Spirit when He places a new heart and spirit in us)

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(emphasis)

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
(pretty sure this needs no explination we can all agree that nicodemus despite his position cannot get it)
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Jesus explains if he cant even see the spirtual implications from a worldy example like birth how can He explain the depths of "How these things can be" with heavenly examples

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. ANYONE who believes in Him

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.By being born again is how THROUGH HIM God does not impute sin to us

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
It is very important you believe on HIS NAME in order for salvation
.. don't look to the worldly things




we all know the walk
and the fruits of the spirit

we ought to encourage eachother for every good work....

but

NOT in order to keep
earn
or "regain" salvation


(check out my cool signature)
 
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I think you'll come to understand that most of them say that those of us that believe we have eternal security, because we are born again Children of God, which they derogatorily refer to as OSAS, ​ARE HYPERGRACERS!
Indeed!

TY for confirming that.

Getting some to admit it is like pulling teeth.

Seems to me if they're confident of what they believe, they oughtta come out of the closet & say so.

I don't hide my beliefs.
 
Sep 14, 2017
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Hyper grace does not promote you can sin all you want. That is the lie insinuated by the attackers. HG is nto a bad thing (the gospel) anyone who believes in salvation by grace through faith alone believes in hypergrace.
That's nearly coming outta the closet.

I think it's time they all come out, really, & show how big they really are.

If you believe in something so much you ought to stand up & be recognized.

Don't forget, honesty is the best policy.:)