How To Be Un-Saved

[Rosemaryx]

But we know that Christ is the author and finisher of our faith. The only reason a person loses believe in Jesus is because they never truly accepted Him in their heart, otherwise, they wouldn't lose belief in the one who saved their soul from eternal damnation and separation from God, and their faith would be sealed with the promise of our Lord's return. You can have the "Knowledge" of Christ's teachings and His words and speak the right things but if you're not saved, it's pointless, and the only way to get saved is to believe in Jesus in your heart.

Your right , because without the Holy Spirit in them they can do nothing...

When we are weak , when we feel so worthless , when we feel as if we are losing hope , God is there and lifts our head Psalm 3:3 But thou, O LORD, art a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of mine head...

When we are weak , He is our strength ...2 Corinthians 12:9 [FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me...[/FONT]

[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]God knows we are but dust , He knows we will have feelings of insecurities , and He has given us everything we need to fight this spiritual battle we are in...

Those who do not belong to God do not run to God , they return to the world because they never left the world and those things behind them...God is our strength and our Tower , as we draw near to Him , He draws near to us...

It is sad that so many people are led to alter calls , or led to just say the sinners prayer and be left to it...These people believe that is it , they are not taught about repentance , and so they go back to their old life because they have not been born again...They stay in a false security from their own imaginations , then that fades and that is is so sad because they know know different...xox...[/FONT]

 

[Depleted]

Yes. Why not?

Well, truthfully, I've notice you only like to argue. Not much into talking about who God is as much as talking around God. And I already have DJ2 ignored for doing the same thing, but wanted to give you the benefit of a doubt. You're answer helped me sort out my doubt. You really are very much like DJ2. I prefer people who can actually teach me something, even if it's just from time to time, but that's not your purpose for being here. You just like to play the devil's advocate at every step of the way. (And, I am not saying you are the devil, I'm saying you like to prove-a-point only with no use in God during it.) So now I know.

You're worth ignoring too. It saves me from reading a lot of babble while I'm truly interested in the topic of a thread. (Which, btw, this thread started as telling something good about Christ, but you, and a few others have decided it is a good place to argue salvation without particularly needing to talk about the Savior.)

So, thanks for answering. Now I know.

 

[Depleted]

IMO,I think some people think that they can pluck themselves out of salvation.I don’t believe they can do this but I think that thats what many are thinking.

I've tried. Doesn't work.

 

[Depleted]

John 3:16 - So simple it's got to be complexedizied (new word) instead of believed

Actually, I see John 3:16 all the time as if it doesn't go with John 3:17-21. It seems to be the univeralist's trump card.

 

[Depleted]

And here we have it in a nutshell
This is what people against eternal security say all the time , because they simply cant accept that they may be doing all these wonderful things , and my goodness , look at that other person , they have walked away , they arent doing enough good works , how could GOD POSSIBLY have them enter Heaven , when I have been so faithful & obedient

Some Just dont get that its 2 different things , salvation = free gift , obedience = rewards
I believe alot of this comes from not rightly dividing Gods word
so sad

Actually, I am not obedient to my husband to cash in my reward chips. I'm obedient because I love him and want to do right by him and for him.

Same reason I'm obedient with the Lord, but with one major difference. With hubby I can choose to do good for him in specific ways. With the Lord, none of it can be my choosing, because once I start thinking I chose this, it is putting the love where it doesn't belong on me. The Lord told us the commandments are love God fully and love other's fully. Once I choose, I'm loving self fully. There goes those reward chips.

(BTW, just so you get you're not nuts nor inarticulate, do understand I know that wasn't what you said or even what you meant. It's stuff I think out past what people say. So, don't feel the need to go back and figure out how in the world I got there from what you said. I'm simply that kind of off-the-beaten path. aka "It's not you. It's me." lol)

 

[Depleted]

doesn't appear that you do



so unless you forsake and repent of every single sin you have ever commited against Him

then you believe you will go to hell?

no it doesnt

not related to a born again believer losing salvation
lol



not related again
but 1 timothy i will cover after i look through the rest of your out of context mismatched posted verses



you think these two were born again?




John 6:29

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

the cross represents His sacrifice
you deny His sacrifice when you point to works salvation




again not at all related to born again believers losing salvation



again
John 6:29

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

if you think one He places a new heart in loves the world

youre sorely mistaken


do you know who is being admonished here?

again not related to born again believers losing salvation




do you even understand whats being said?
this has to do with bondange to sin he is praying to be delivered from

not the loss of salvation




nothing to do with the loss of salvation.... again

talking about those in error leading others who are not yet born again astray

THE LORD KNOWITH THEM THAT ARE HIS

and in the name of CHRIST depart from iniquity



ok?
ya
they didnt have a saving faith....
out of context verse

their love for the world shows He had not placed His spirit in them....


are you joking or being serious here?



do you understand why these letters were written?
converted in a sense of saying "oh ya im a Christian"
faith in the sense
KNOWLEDGE that Christ is God

and notice
its not saying

they sinned and lost salvation

its saying they didnt have a lasting faith


im at work

i saw you took hebrews 10 out of context again

you still dont understand that whole chapter at all...


*sigh*

ill shine light on the rest of this darkness when i get home

you have shown your lack of ability to rightly divide so many times in one post

Warning: (It could be a good warning or bad, depending on your own personal preference, not on anything substantial. lol) You're beginning to post like Preach posts -- line by line with commentary.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Warning: (It could be a good warning or bad, depending on your own personal preference, not on anything substantial. lol) You're beginning to post like Preach posts -- line by line with commentary.

hahaha

i only have a moment

im on break

i was trying to address every point

 

[Rosemaryx]

Warning: (It could be a good warning or bad, depending on your own personal preference, not on anything substantial. lol) You're beginning to post like Preach posts -- line by line with commentary.

That's what happens when one is full of the Holy Spirit like our little brother Jamie......xox...

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus said the 2nd type of soil believed. That's good enough for me. That's what he said. You can say the 2nd type of soil didn't believe if you want. That's your choice. Me? I'm going with what Jesus said.

In James 2:19, we read that the demons "believe" as well. Is that also good enough for you? Are the demons saved?

John has portrayed people as "believing" who are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine or consummated belief" which would have resulted in salvation." See John 2:23-25, where their "belief" is clearly superficial in nature.

*Also, in John 8:31,34,37,44,55,59 where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus, children of the devil, liars, and guilty of setting out to stone the one they have professed to believe in.

After Jesus’ teaching in John 6:60, we see that "many of his disciples said, "this is a difficult statement, who can listen to it?" These are the very so called "disciples" who Jesus says "do not believe" (John 6:64). They also walked with Him no more. They did not continue. In John 8:31, Jesus said - If we continue in His word, then we demonstrate that we are TRULY His disciples. Those who fail to continue in His word demonstrate that they are NOT TRULY His disciples.

And as far as the Judas thing, he disproves the argument that God doesn't save people knowing they will fall away later because that would be foolish. Not because Judas was saved and lost his salvation (he was not saved), but because God did what seems foolish to us. He brought an unbeliever right into Jesus' midst and gave him a position of ministry knowing all along that he was not a believer, never would be, and would actually betray him. That's foolish. Yet he did it anyway. God does things that seem foolish to mere mortals. NEVER base an argument for God not doing something because it is foolish. Doing that is what is foolish.

At least you admit that Judas was NOT saved. Those who are in the NOSAS camp usually argue that Judas was saved then lost his salvation.

Yes, God does do things which seem foolish to mere mortals:

1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God...21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[Chester]

if a christian converts to Islam, they never had faith in God, or experienced his love, They were just actors playing the church game.

Now what if I get that "Christian" who converted to Islam to convert back to Christianity. Hmmmm! Now how can this be explained?

Well, (1) maybe his original conversion was real after all?? Then when he became a Muslim he was still a Christian, but was like the prodigal son. And now he is finally back to Christ again . . .

Or (2) Maybe he still is not really born again and his whole "Christian" journey has only been a farce - He was and still is one of those from I John 2 who were in the church, but never really a part of the church.

Or, (3) Maybe his first "conversion" to Christianity was not real and so of course he left the church and became a Muslim. But that was not backsliding because he never was a Christian. But now he has truly found Christ and become a believer . . .

Or, . . . . maybe there are other possibilities . . . in any case we had best just watch the person's life and works now because if they don't match up, then we will know that he could never have been born again in the first place . . .

Gets sort of complicated . . . I much prefer to simply ask - Does this person right now believe in Jesus Christ?

 

[Speak2Me]

In James 2:19, we read that the demons "believe" as well. Is that also good enough for you? Are the demons saved?

John has portrayed people as "believing" who are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine or consummated belief" which would have resulted in salvation." See John 2:23-25, where their "belief" is clearly superficial in nature.

*Also, in John 8:31,34,37,44,55,59 where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus, children of the devil, liars, and guilty of setting out to stone the one they have professed to believe in.

After Jesus’ teaching in John 6:60, we see that "many of his disciples said, "this is a difficult statement, who can listen to it?" These are the very so called "disciples" who Jesus says "do not believe" (John 6:64). They also walked with Him no more. They did not continue. In John 8:31, Jesus said - If we continue in His word, then we demonstrate that we are TRULY His disciples. Those who fail to continue in His word demonstrate that they are NOT TRULY His disciples.

At least you admit that Judas was NOT saved. Those who are in the NOSAS camp usually argue that Judas was saved then lost his salvation.

Yes, God does do things which seem foolish to mere mortals:

1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God...21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

So the lie continues........... Most of us NOSAS don't believe Judas was saved.

It was Jesus who said "I choose 12, & one of you is a devil?"

But, I'm sure yer buddies have a fake NOSAS to say that he did, so U & yer buddies could grab it & run with it.

Yep. Spies in da camp.

But don't worry - they won't believe me anyway.

Those lukewarm, unfaithful ones will follow God's plan, & go into the tribulation.

The lukewarm wasn't predetermined, but the plan for the lukewarm was.

Dear readers, choose carefully what doctrine you follow.

Yer soul depends on it.

 

[Adstar]

What reason would one have to throw their salvation away?

And if a person can throw it away. What does that say about God that he would save a person he KNEW would do that? Does that not make God foolish?

I guess you have to ask all those people who where once Christians but now are atheists why they threw their salvation away..

God saved the Hebrews from Egypt and lead them through the wilderness for 40 years and established them in the promised land .. Then they sinned against Him and rejected his will and 10 tribes of Israel where defeated and sent into exile and where lost and the other two tribes rebelled against the will of God and where sent into servitude in Babylon,, they return but eventually where destroyed and scatted over the world by the Romans ... Did all this make God foolish to you ???

 

[Katy-follower]

They must think they are more powerful than God. Able to rip themselves out of his hands.

And... we're obviously on the weaker end. If angels and powers can't even snatch us, what makes anyone think that we ourselves are even able to? And besides, it says no "created thing" can, so that would include us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Now what if I get that "Christian" who converted to Islam to convert back to Christianity. Hmmmm! Now how can this be explained?

Well, (1) maybe his original conversion was real after all?? Then when he became a Muslim he was still a Christian, but was like the prodigal son. And now he is finally back to Christ again . . .

Or (2) Maybe he still is not really born again and his whole "Christian" journey has only been a farce - He was and still is one of those from I John 2 who were in the church, but never really a part of the church.

Or, (3) Maybe his first "conversion" to Christianity was not real and so of course he left the church and became a Muslim. But that was not backsliding because he never was a Christian. But now he has truly found Christ and become a believer . . .

Or, . . . . maybe there are other possibilities . . . in any case we had best just watch the person's life and works now because if they don't match up, then we will know that he could never have been born again in the first place . . .

Gets sort of complicated . . . I much prefer to simply ask - Does this person right now believe in Jesus Christ?

Your drawing in straws trying to hold on to a belief which makes no sense.

Here, The author of hebrews will help us. When he spoke of the prospect of returning to law. And how grave that would be, When he said if a person would return to law “fall away or apostisize” then there is no hope of renewing them to repentance. If they did not come to it the first time, there is no hope of them coming back. Why would they come back to a faith oriented gospel if they tried it once and it left them so empty they resorted to a law based gospel?

Your still ignoring John. WHen are you going to listen to John and come to faith?

 

[LightLoveHope]

I know I wasn't called to be a preacher, and I know I'm not a perfect man, never will be, and I'm trying not to be arrogant, I'm just going by what the Holy Spirit speaks to me when I read the Word. I just don't see or find anywhere where someone can lose their salvation.

I want you to read something from colossians

But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation--
if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Col 1:22-23

If one reads the verses quickly and skips over this phrase, "if", then you can claim whatever
you want. Paul wants to encourage the disciples, so is always emphasising the great blessing
for the faithful, for those who walk in the ways of Jesus.

Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation.
Colossians 1:21-22

So Paul is saying we were alienated from God, enemies because of our EVIL BEHAVIOR

But we are now acceptable because we have been reconciled, washed clean, purified,
through the body of Christ, so we are holy, without fault, blemish, free from evil behaviour
and accusation.

Unfortunately you could read in we are still evil, and God only sees Jesus, but this is a
mockery of Christs redemption and power through the cross.

So in the eternal, the chosen never can lose their salvation, and the lost always will,
but only God knows who they are, and the chosen stay faithful. So whichever way you
look at it, things remain the same.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And... we're obviously on the weaker end. If angels and powers can't even snatch us, what makes anyone think that we ourselves are even able to? And besides, it says no "created thing" can, so that would include us.

Amen, What part of ”His sheep” are given eternal life, and shall NEVER be plucked out. Do they not comprehend? But remember, they are trusting in self to begin with, so they have to think they have that power.

 

[mailmandan]

So the lie continues........... Most of us NOSAS don't believe Judas was saved.

It was Jesus who said "I choose 12, & one of you is a devil?"

But, I'm sure yer buddies have a fake NOSAS to say that he did, so U & yer buddies could grab it & run with it.

Yep. Spies in da camp.

But don't worry - they won't believe me anyway.

Those lukewarm, unfaithful ones will follow God's plan, & go into the tribulation.

The lukewarm wasn't predetermined, but the plan for the lukewarm was.

Dear readers, choose carefully what doctrine you follow.

Yer soul depends on it.

What lies? I have been a member of 7 different Christian Forums over the years now and I've been in multiple discussions with people in the NOSAS camp about Judas Iscariot and the majority of those people argued that Judas Iscariot was saved then later lost his salvation. Me and my buddies? Spies in da camp? Why so bitter, cynical and angry?

 

[mailmandan]

I guess you have to ask all those people who where once Christians but now are atheists why they threw their salvation away..

I have asked different people on multiple Christian Forums who "claimed" to have once been a Christian but no longer are (and some of them claimed to now be atheists) how they became a believer in the first place, but never received a satisfactory answer. Apparently, they threw away only what they thought they had.

God saved the Hebrews from Egypt and lead them through the wilderness for 40 years and established them in the promised land .. Then they sinned against Him and rejected his will and 10 tribes of Israel where defeated and sent into exile and where lost and the other two tribes rebelled against the will of God and where sent into servitude in Babylon,, they return but eventually where destroyed and scatted over the world by the Romans ... Did all this make God foolish to you ???

God saved/delivered/rescued the people of Israel from Egypt (but that does not mean they were all saved believers) *but afterwards destroyed those who did not believe.* These Hebrews who left Egypt may have began with loud confidence and profession of loyalty, but later? Perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Your drawing in straws trying to hold on to a belief which makes no sense.

Here is the core problem.
Once you believe everything hangs on faith, and nothing else you are going into fiction,
and the world of insane delusions. Everyone can create their own world and say it makes
more sense to them than the real one.

Jesus comes with the ultimate reality, with the promise we can walk like Him.
He shows us that it is we who are at fault with an impure corrupted heart, that distorts and
changes everything to justify our own behavior as good even when evil.

Now you know when people fall for justifying sin, because they never want to resolve
it all, and build the most elaborate ways of avoiding facing the truth. We must resolve
our sin, face our debts and what we owe and come humbly before the Lord of all.

Now those caught in sin will oppose these words to their end. But that is their doom
and the day of judgment will be a shock. God has made it plain

For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
1 thess 4:7-8

Let us be honest. Salvation alone lies on this road. If you cannot face this
you will never face God saved.

So it makes me wonder, how many of you are truly saved and pass this test?
It appears to me very few. This is no joke, and you know there is no other
way by which you might get saved, so I suggest repent, confess and humble
yourself before Jesus today and start walking in His ways.

 

[mailmandan]

I want you to read something from colossians

But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation--
if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Col 1:22-23

If one reads the verses quickly and skips over this phrase, "if", then you can claim whatever
you want. Paul wants to encourage the disciples, so is always emphasising the great blessing
for the faithful, for those who walk in the ways of Jesus.

Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation.
Colossians 1:21-22

In Colossians 1:23, we read - ..if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. The word "if" here is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."

That is, continuance would show that the person's faith was firmly rooted and established in the hope of the gospel and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Gk. particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians who believe in vain/without cause or without effect, to no purpose (1 Corinthians 15:2).

It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians along with genuine Christians, without being able to know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance here that they will be eternally saved when in fact they may not? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow, vain faith was not rooted and established in the gospel to begin with.