Not By Works
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What does it matter to you if I believe or don't believe that baptism is necessary for salvation, since according to your belief, when one believes in Jesus and is immersed by the HG, he is saved immediately and nothing (even a belief that baptism is necessary for salvation) can separate that person from God and eternal life. Do you really believe what you say?
It could be dangerous except Jesus and his disciples and apostles went around water baptizing people throughout all the NT. If that is not true, and if that is truly dangerous, then you should go into the NT text and take all references to water baptism out of the text, so that it is not confusing to people who believe it is not necessary for salvation.
If it is so dangerous, get to work and come out with your version of the bible, there are hundreds of versions you know.
If it is so dangerous, get to work and come out with your version of the bible, there are hundreds of versions you know.
I've said it milennia times before, but here it is again. Getting dipped in water has NOTHING to do with salvation. It is NOT a requirement. I mean, do you get saved every time you dip into a pool, or take a shower or bath? I didn't think so. 
LOL
LOL
It was by or "out of" faith that Abel offered a sacrifice. Abel's faith was evidenced in obedience to God's requirement for sacrifice by which he obtained witness that he was righteous (Hebrews 11:4). Cain, who was of the evil one, demonstrated an evil heart by evil deeds, while Abel demonstrated a righteous heart by his righteous deeds (1 John 3:12) so Abel offered his sacrifice by or "out of" faith and Cain did not.
Here are some Commentaries that may help you to understand, and hopefully my comments too.
The Water was only a picture of Christ's true Spiritual Baptism, immerses us into CHRIST'S Spiritual BODY.
We are to be identified with Christ as HE was identified with us sinners, but the TRUE BAPTISM which is the INNER PERSONNEL RELATIONSHIP with the LORD JESUS CHRIST is the Spiritual Relationship with HIM AS MASTER, and it is a LOVE RELATIONSHIP.
The Water does not SAVE US, as DOES IMMERSION INTO HIS SPIRITUAL BODY ACTUALLY DOES. Is Baptism in Water important? YES, it is one of the first few Steps in our Obedient WALK with the LORD, and that Obedience is OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM. You seem to think it is part of SALVATION, and NO, we were SAVED THE MOMENT WE CAME TO BELIEVE IN HIM. That is the MOMENT the Holy Spirit entered our hearts, causing our once DEAD human spirit to come to ETERNAL LIFE, while pouring out GOD's LOVE into our hearts, Immersing us into the the spiritual BODY of Christ, and HE proceeds to teach us all things. IF you were SAVED, it happened LONG before you even thought about climbing into the BAPTISTERY.
The Water was only a picture of Christ's true Spiritual Baptism, immerses us into CHRIST'S Spiritual BODY.
We are to be identified with Christ as HE was identified with us sinners, but the TRUE BAPTISM which is the INNER PERSONNEL RELATIONSHIP with the LORD JESUS CHRIST is the Spiritual Relationship with HIM AS MASTER, and it is a LOVE RELATIONSHIP.
The Water does not SAVE US, as DOES IMMERSION INTO HIS SPIRITUAL BODY ACTUALLY DOES. Is Baptism in Water important? YES, it is one of the first few Steps in our Obedient WALK with the LORD, and that Obedience is OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM. You seem to think it is part of SALVATION, and NO, we were SAVED THE MOMENT WE CAME TO BELIEVE IN HIM. That is the MOMENT the Holy Spirit entered our hearts, causing our once DEAD human spirit to come to ETERNAL LIFE, while pouring out GOD's LOVE into our hearts, Immersing us into the the spiritual BODY of Christ, and HE proceeds to teach us all things. IF you were SAVED, it happened LONG before you even thought about climbing into the BAPTISTERY.
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The above is a lot of truth, with a small distortion.
We are called to know who Jesus is and what He has done for us.
As His light shines on our hearts, the truth becomes clear, we need to repent,
to confess both our sin and His offer of salvation through the cross.
We are purified, made whole, brought into the Kingdom.
Out of this reality we desire to love, to fellowship, to worship as a group of
believers growing in this glorious life we have in Him.
Now somehow this is changed to demanding things, yet it is the outflow of the
life that is within. But for those who do not have this outflow they need an
excuse, a way of saying they are really ok, and it is the legalists who insist
on this reality showing itself which is the deception.
Now if they knew this as the outflow, they would not hate it so and those who
live it. But make no mistake, their decision to make war is embedded in their hearts
as if some revenge or hurt must be put right. And it is this that speaks loudly and
clear and not the peace and grace of the Holy Spirit, and the rejoicing in the heavenlies
that someone takes joy in the salvation of our Lord and King Jesus Christ, Amen.
But I rejoice that anyone will exalt Jesus and lift Him up before mankind and seek His
face and ways. Praise the Lord for His name is to be exalted.
[video=youtube;7XAeyFagceQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XAeyFagceQ&list=RD7XAeyFagceQ[/video]
We are called to know who Jesus is and what He has done for us.
As His light shines on our hearts, the truth becomes clear, we need to repent,
to confess both our sin and His offer of salvation through the cross.
We are purified, made whole, brought into the Kingdom.
Out of this reality we desire to love, to fellowship, to worship as a group of
believers growing in this glorious life we have in Him.
Now somehow this is changed to demanding things, yet it is the outflow of the
life that is within. But for those who do not have this outflow they need an
excuse, a way of saying they are really ok, and it is the legalists who insist
on this reality showing itself which is the deception.
Now if they knew this as the outflow, they would not hate it so and those who
live it. But make no mistake, their decision to make war is embedded in their hearts
as if some revenge or hurt must be put right. And it is this that speaks loudly and
clear and not the peace and grace of the Holy Spirit, and the rejoicing in the heavenlies
that someone takes joy in the salvation of our Lord and King Jesus Christ, Amen.
But I rejoice that anyone will exalt Jesus and lift Him up before mankind and seek His
face and ways. Praise the Lord for His name is to be exalted.
[video=youtube;7XAeyFagceQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XAeyFagceQ&list=RD7XAeyFagceQ[/video]
This is so true, brother in Christ.
If this believer thought you were saved he would not be so determined to win you over.
And if he believed he was saved eternally whether he changes or not from his current
position, he would not say he cannot believe anything else than he believes.
He believes we are not saved and wishes to win us to his gospel. Except we believe in
Jesus and His salvation, have been raised to life in Christ so there is nothing to convert
us to, because even in his faith we are actually saved. So what is all this talk other than
their own self deception, that in darkness they walk, and unless we admit we walk in the
same darkness, we are lost and hypocrites. All I hear is echoes of the people they blame
for their hurt and lostness from which they believe they have been saved.
As I grow in the Lord and in His word, I see these dreamers never getting anywhere other
than more convinced sin will dog them always, and reality is just living in failure and not seeking
love and righteousness, which is a simple denial of the way of Christ.
Praise the Lord He has delivered us from this endless cycle of condemnation and failure, into His
glorious light of love and revelation, Amen.
If this believer thought you were saved he would not be so determined to win you over.
And if he believed he was saved eternally whether he changes or not from his current
position, he would not say he cannot believe anything else than he believes.
He believes we are not saved and wishes to win us to his gospel. Except we believe in
Jesus and His salvation, have been raised to life in Christ so there is nothing to convert
us to, because even in his faith we are actually saved. So what is all this talk other than
their own self deception, that in darkness they walk, and unless we admit we walk in the
same darkness, we are lost and hypocrites. All I hear is echoes of the people they blame
for their hurt and lostness from which they believe they have been saved.
As I grow in the Lord and in His word, I see these dreamers never getting anywhere other
than more convinced sin will dog them always, and reality is just living in failure and not seeking
love and righteousness, which is a simple denial of the way of Christ.
Praise the Lord He has delivered us from this endless cycle of condemnation and failure, into His
glorious light of love and revelation, Amen.
You must think shepherds just lie around doing nothing. It is work to keep a herd of sheep together and safe. Constant vigilance is required and tracking down a sheep that wanders away. These animals are not the smartest animals around. A dog trained to herd sheep is a must. In Biblical times there were seasons where the shepherds spent the nights with them. They had a corral and the shepherd slept in the opening to it.
The theological issue of the importance of baptism comes from the great commission.
Mathew 28:16 to 20 (great commission)
16 Now the elevendisciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed and made appointment with them.
17 And when they saw Him, they fell down and worshiped Him; but some doubted.
18 Jesus approached and, breaking the silence, said to them, All authority (all power of rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
19 Go then and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 Teaching them to observe everything that I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you all the days (perpetually, uniformly, and on every occasion), to the [very] close and consummation of the age. Amen (so let it be).
We are commanded to be baptized. Therefore what is the consequences of not getting baptized before you die? This is argued by different denominations. All agree that baptism is required but some say the intent is fine if the person dies before the scheduled event. Others will perform the baptism immediately after the person converts because they believe that the person might not be saved without it.
Then there is the other can of worms. The mode of baptism. There are three modes (or methods) of water baptism used in Christian churches today: immersion (in which the person is completely submerged), affusion (that is, pouring), and aspersion (sprinkling). There is nothing in the Bible that explicitly states the mode. The argument is an ongoing bone of contention between denominations. Some go to the supposed root word for baptism. One is immersing a cloth to be dyed and another is washing the feet at that time. Never ending argument with people dug in on all 3 types.
Let the arguments begin keeping in mind to respect others views that disagree with yours.
Mathew 28:16 to 20 (great commission)
16 Now the elevendisciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed and made appointment with them.
17 And when they saw Him, they fell down and worshiped Him; but some doubted.
18 Jesus approached and, breaking the silence, said to them, All authority (all power of rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
19 Go then and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 Teaching them to observe everything that I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you all the days (perpetually, uniformly, and on every occasion), to the [very] close and consummation of the age. Amen (so let it be).
We are commanded to be baptized. Therefore what is the consequences of not getting baptized before you die? This is argued by different denominations. All agree that baptism is required but some say the intent is fine if the person dies before the scheduled event. Others will perform the baptism immediately after the person converts because they believe that the person might not be saved without it.
Then there is the other can of worms. The mode of baptism. There are three modes (or methods) of water baptism used in Christian churches today: immersion (in which the person is completely submerged), affusion (that is, pouring), and aspersion (sprinkling). There is nothing in the Bible that explicitly states the mode. The argument is an ongoing bone of contention between denominations. Some go to the supposed root word for baptism. One is immersing a cloth to be dyed and another is washing the feet at that time. Never ending argument with people dug in on all 3 types.
Let the arguments begin keeping in mind to respect others views that disagree with yours.
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