From Bluto:
Bluto:
First of all, you are wrong in stating that I do not believe Christ existed before the incarnation. I do believe he existed: as the Father. Let me explain what i believe so there are no misconceptions or assumptions as have already been happening. (I am not a Modalist.)
You see, all of the scriptures then make sense when you realize that the Father was the spirit that lived inside of the man Christ Jesus. Then when you see Jesus, you are seeing God himself but he is veiled in the flesh. No man can look upon God and live. But you could look at the man Christ Jesus and you were looking at God Almighty! So Jesus was the one God (the Father of the old testament.
So when the bible says all things were created by Jesus, guess what. They were! Because who is Jesus? The Father that is manifested in the flesh! The creator! The Almighty God! Just like he said he was in Revelation 1:8 and Isa 9:6. Jesus Christ is the everlasting Father, the Almighty God! Whoo!
Let me answer you with what you teach as a oneness believer. You teach that Jesus Christ did not preexist His incarnation as a man. In fact, you said in your thread that Jesus Christ is God the Father and you quoted Isaiah 9:6 as your proof.
So can you please explain to me that since the Son of God did not preexist His incarnation then why is the Son identified or presented as the "AGENT" of creation at John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:10 and Revelation 3:14 by the Apostles and by His own Father?
Then to make matters even worse for you since you believe Jesus Christ is God the Father why do the verses I mentioned present the Son as the agent of creation? Why do those verses not just say that the Father is the creator, period? Afterall, Isaiah 44:24 says the following: "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb. I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, STRETCHING OUT THE HEAVENS BY MYSELF. And spreading out the earth ALL ALONE."
Why does God the Father (who you say is really Jesus Christ) need a helper with creation if the Son never preexisted before His incarnation as a man?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
So can you please explain to me that since the Son of God did not preexist His incarnation then why is the Son identified or presented as the "AGENT" of creation at John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:10 and Revelation 3:14 by the Apostles and by His own Father?
Then to make matters even worse for you since you believe Jesus Christ is God the Father why do the verses I mentioned present the Son as the agent of creation? Why do those verses not just say that the Father is the creator, period? Afterall, Isaiah 44:24 says the following: "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb. I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, STRETCHING OUT THE HEAVENS BY MYSELF. And spreading out the earth ALL ALONE."
Why does God the Father (who you say is really Jesus Christ) need a helper with creation if the Son never preexisted before His incarnation as a man?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
First of all, you are wrong in stating that I do not believe Christ existed before the incarnation. I do believe he existed: as the Father. Let me explain what i believe so there are no misconceptions or assumptions as have already been happening. (I am not a Modalist.)
- In the beginning of time, before earth, heaven, angels, or any of creation existed, God (the Father) was there. - (Psalm 90:2, Psalm 93:2)
- He then created all things - Isaiah 44:24
- He constantly emphasized to the children of Israel that he is the only God - Deuteronomy 6:4, Isa 44;24, Isa 45:5, etc
- He gave them a promise that their one God (the Father) would come and save them - Isa 35:3-6, Isa 9:6, Isa 7:14
- He told them what the signs would be that God was among them - Isa 35:3-6
- God (the Father) came in the flesh just like he said he would! - Luke chapter 1, John 1:1-14
- Jesus tried to tell them he was God that came in the flesh - John 10:30, John 14:6-11
You see, all of the scriptures then make sense when you realize that the Father was the spirit that lived inside of the man Christ Jesus. Then when you see Jesus, you are seeing God himself but he is veiled in the flesh. No man can look upon God and live. But you could look at the man Christ Jesus and you were looking at God Almighty! So Jesus was the one God (the Father of the old testament.
So when the bible says all things were created by Jesus, guess what. They were! Because who is Jesus? The Father that is manifested in the flesh! The creator! The Almighty God! Just like he said he was in Revelation 1:8 and Isa 9:6. Jesus Christ is the everlasting Father, the Almighty God! Whoo!