Not By Works
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Originally Posted by ElAmor
I'm just wondering how hard it is for you to either say YES or NO to confirm or negate something. So i'll just take this as a NO which means that YOU DISAGREE that a DEAD FAITH cannot save and that Faith without works is DEAD.which brings me to the conclusion that you’re really just trying to divide instead of edifying the church. (jude 1:18-19, james 2:22, romans 14:19)
Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Rejecting Scriptures that do not fit and go against your FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE is rejection and trampling under foot of God’s WORD which is the SPIRIT ( john 1:1-3 & 14, 6:63, hebrews 10:26-29, 2 timothy 3:16-17, mark 7:6-13)
Matthew 12:31-37 And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the son of man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. YOU BROOD OF VIPERS, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and BY YOUR WORDS YOU WILL BE CONDEMNED”
Apostle James words;
... As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
... should be received as God’s own words since they were inspired and led by the Holy Spirit and therefore wrote what they have heard and understood from Christs teachings.
Our Lord Jesus said;
“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?(luke 6:46)
...Who are the ones calling Jesus as their Lord and yet do not do what He says? Are they not those who CLAIM to have Faith but one which is DEAD.
1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
...So what did Jesus say to them?
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
...And what would he say to them who have FAITH WITHOUT WORKS which is a DEAD FAITH that cannot save?
Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF MY GOD. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT AND REPENT. But IF YOU DO NOT WAKE UP, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
...BECAUSE...
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you EVILDOERS.’
...And why are they called EVILDOERS?
1 John 2:3-4 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 3:4-10 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
dcon’s reply
Assume what you want to assume....I could care less what you think or your view.....
ElAmor
I hope that everyone can notice that when the attitude or behaviour becomes like this in a Christian forum, there will be no edification but there will always be strife, disorder and arguments leading to divisions instead of unity in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1 Timothy 6:3-5 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
Jude 1:19-25 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life. Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh. Doxology To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
I'm just wondering how hard it is for you to either say YES or NO to confirm or negate something. So i'll just take this as a NO which means that YOU DISAGREE that a DEAD FAITH cannot save and that Faith without works is DEAD.which brings me to the conclusion that you’re really just trying to divide instead of edifying the church. (jude 1:18-19, james 2:22, romans 14:19)
Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Rejecting Scriptures that do not fit and go against your FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE is rejection and trampling under foot of God’s WORD which is the SPIRIT ( john 1:1-3 & 14, 6:63, hebrews 10:26-29, 2 timothy 3:16-17, mark 7:6-13)
Matthew 12:31-37 And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the son of man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. YOU BROOD OF VIPERS, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and BY YOUR WORDS YOU WILL BE CONDEMNED”
Apostle James words;
... As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
... should be received as God’s own words since they were inspired and led by the Holy Spirit and therefore wrote what they have heard and understood from Christs teachings.
Our Lord Jesus said;
“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?(luke 6:46)
...Who are the ones calling Jesus as their Lord and yet do not do what He says? Are they not those who CLAIM to have Faith but one which is DEAD.
1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
...So what did Jesus say to them?
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
...And what would he say to them who have FAITH WITHOUT WORKS which is a DEAD FAITH that cannot save?
Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF MY GOD. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT AND REPENT. But IF YOU DO NOT WAKE UP, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
...BECAUSE...
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you EVILDOERS.’
...And why are they called EVILDOERS?
1 John 2:3-4 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 3:4-10 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
dcon’s reply
Assume what you want to assume....I could care less what you think or your view.....
ElAmor
I hope that everyone can notice that when the attitude or behaviour becomes like this in a Christian forum, there will be no edification but there will always be strife, disorder and arguments leading to divisions instead of unity in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1 Timothy 6:3-5 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
Jude 1:19-25 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life. Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh. Doxology To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
amen, faith without works is dead
and there are even more amens than this:
amen!
amen, amen, amen and AMEN !!
and there are even more amens than this:
God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
(1 Corinthians 1:9)
But the Lord is faithful, and He will strengthen you and guard you from the evil one.
(2 Thessalonians 3:3)
The One who calls you is faithful, and He will do it.
(1 Thessalonians 5:24)
Let us hold resolutely to the hope we confess, for He who promised is faithful.
(Hebrews 10:23)
I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
(Philippians 1:6)
if we are faithless, He remains faithful —
for He cannot deny Himself.
(2 Timothy 2:13)
Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
(Hebrews 10:35)
In Him and through faith in Him we may enter God's presence with boldness and confidence.
(Ephesians 3:12)
(1 Corinthians 1:9)
But the Lord is faithful, and He will strengthen you and guard you from the evil one.
(2 Thessalonians 3:3)
The One who calls you is faithful, and He will do it.
(1 Thessalonians 5:24)
Let us hold resolutely to the hope we confess, for He who promised is faithful.
(Hebrews 10:23)
I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
(Philippians 1:6)
if we are faithless, He remains faithful —
for He cannot deny Himself.
(2 Timothy 2:13)
Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
(Hebrews 10:35)
In Him and through faith in Him we may enter God's presence with boldness and confidence.
(Ephesians 3:12)
amen!
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.(Philippians 2:13)
amen, amen, amen and AMEN !!
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A member wrote that people are saying if one sins you are not a believer.
Scripture says if you do not have faith in Jesus nothing will save you.
It has always been about faith and because of ones knowledge of Jesus
walking in His ways.
It is simple. If you claim faith in Jesus, that He is the most important thing
in ones life, yet you ignore His will, His desires, His commands, then it is
you and not Him that is more important, and the faith is just a way of
stopping from worrying about death and the future.
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
and whoever lives and believes in me will never die."
John 11:25-26
God sees your heart and whether you are listening learning and walking in His ways.
It is not an exam with a pass a fail. We are lost sinners who need to be redeemed,
and part of that redemption is listening and following Jesus.
A sick person does not get well by just having a doctor to help them, but by
actually taking the medicine, because it is the medicine that cures them, the
doctor identifies the problem and the solution.
Thankfully in Christ we have both the doctor and the solution and the medicine.
But ignoring the medicine, means we are doomed. Literally.
Scripture says if you do not have faith in Jesus nothing will save you.
It has always been about faith and because of ones knowledge of Jesus
walking in His ways.
It is simple. If you claim faith in Jesus, that He is the most important thing
in ones life, yet you ignore His will, His desires, His commands, then it is
you and not Him that is more important, and the faith is just a way of
stopping from worrying about death and the future.
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
and whoever lives and believes in me will never die."
John 11:25-26
God sees your heart and whether you are listening learning and walking in His ways.
It is not an exam with a pass a fail. We are lost sinners who need to be redeemed,
and part of that redemption is listening and following Jesus.
A sick person does not get well by just having a doctor to help them, but by
actually taking the medicine, because it is the medicine that cures them, the
doctor identifies the problem and the solution.
Thankfully in Christ we have both the doctor and the solution and the medicine.
But ignoring the medicine, means we are doomed. Literally.
N
1 John 5:4 - For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.
1 John 5:5 - Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
________
Revelation 3:21 - To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
____________
philippians
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
______
1 peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
praise God
(check out my signature...)
1 John 5:5 - Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
________
Revelation 3:21 - To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
____________
philippians
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
______
1 peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
praise God
(check out my signature...)
Funny thing about anger, is you are the one who keeps raising the issue.
Your definition of a teaching "anger without cause in your heart is murder" you want me to
accept.
1. Anger - how do you define this, annoyance, loathing, resentment, irritation
2. Target - an individual or a thing or an attitude
3. Murder - immediately you think it, over an extended time, more than 24 hours etc
4. Cause - what is a legitimate cause and what is not
Murder is simple. Someone is dead and the situation was unjustified. When the person dies
murder begins.
Anger is more of a problem and what you would regard as justified.
I know of people who are angry at their teachers for setting homework
I know people who are angry at their bosses for asking them to do work well.
I am not settled at the moment where I am on all these particular issues, other than
anger in some form and in some circumstances is murder.
Am I now guilty of something bad, or heretical or evil?
Funnily some here are happy to say whatever I share I am wrong,
Wonder if they know what loving your enemy means and loving your brothers and sisters
in Christ is. It is certainly is not this behavior and me pointing it out will also be wood
to the fire, lol. It is a sad spiritual reality when people are this far from the Lord.
And some have been angry at me for just being obedient to Jesus. So mind boggling.
Your definition of a teaching "anger without cause in your heart is murder" you want me to
accept.
1. Anger - how do you define this, annoyance, loathing, resentment, irritation
2. Target - an individual or a thing or an attitude
3. Murder - immediately you think it, over an extended time, more than 24 hours etc
4. Cause - what is a legitimate cause and what is not
Murder is simple. Someone is dead and the situation was unjustified. When the person dies
murder begins.
Anger is more of a problem and what you would regard as justified.
I know of people who are angry at their teachers for setting homework
I know people who are angry at their bosses for asking them to do work well.
I am not settled at the moment where I am on all these particular issues, other than
anger in some form and in some circumstances is murder.
Am I now guilty of something bad, or heretical or evil?
Funnily some here are happy to say whatever I share I am wrong,
Wonder if they know what loving your enemy means and loving your brothers and sisters
in Christ is. It is certainly is not this behavior and me pointing it out will also be wood
to the fire, lol. It is a sad spiritual reality when people are this far from the Lord.
And some have been angry at me for just being obedient to Jesus. So mind boggling.
Keep in mind there was divisions in the early church. The elders gathered together to look at the issue. They created the Apostles Creed to define who is and isn't a Christian. Starting back then it was decided that we can agree to disagree about any issue outside of the Creed. Today we have as a result many different denominations that have distinctives separating them from the other denominations.
As long as they adhere to Creed they are brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. As long as a person or denomination adheres to the Creed that is all that is required.
As long as they adhere to Creed they are brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. As long as a person or denomination adheres to the Creed that is all that is required.
I agree we should be contending for the Faith but not attacking the person. However, I think your statement "Injuring each other" is an over reaction. A heated debate over a hot topic such as,
"Not By Works" is within the bylaws and rules of Christianchat.com. You also have the
option of reporting an abusive person at the bottom of the post....
"Not By Works" is within the bylaws and rules of Christianchat.com. You also have the
option of reporting an abusive person at the bottom of the post....
You mockingly condemn all that do not believe in your strict and narrow reading of the scriptures.
If I put you and your strict and narrow belief system up against all other Christians, world wide, you may not be able to agree with even 65% of them. Even on this forum, at least 30% do not agree with you, and now take the Catholics and the eastern Christians and we could be talking just 65% of just the protestant religions.
BTW, the false, embellished, street organ player false gospels you are talking about, come from the bible also. The part of the bible that you do not read because it does not fit your strict and narrow reading of the scriptures.
For instance you have never told me what happened to the debtor that was given grace and a great free gift from the merciful king?
Did he lose his free gift for not forgiving?
OR
Did the king forgive him and he kept his free gift even though he did not forgive.
What is the answer to this parable that Jesus gave us?
If I put you and your strict and narrow belief system up against all other Christians, world wide, you may not be able to agree with even 65% of them. Even on this forum, at least 30% do not agree with you, and now take the Catholics and the eastern Christians and we could be talking just 65% of just the protestant religions.
BTW, the false, embellished, street organ player false gospels you are talking about, come from the bible also. The part of the bible that you do not read because it does not fit your strict and narrow reading of the scriptures.
For instance you have never told me what happened to the debtor that was given grace and a great free gift from the merciful king?
Did he lose his free gift for not forgiving?
OR
Did the king forgive him and he kept his free gift even though he did not forgive.
What is the answer to this parable that Jesus gave us?