Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Faith is the begining of Trust.

You only ever intended to incite an argument and a fruitless discusion in order to desperately cling to the lie you told yourself.

God created his Children with freewill.

And that is the very thing you are attempting to ever so subtly lie about.
That a person has no Choice.


Keen eyes
You should lay off the juice and get right..both this post and the one before it are.....

a. Ignorant
b. Accusatory
c. That of a false witness
d. Lacking knowledge
e. False and misleading
f. Etc.

I have said nothing of the sort or even indicated the foolishness that you spout and accuse of!
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Martin Luther called the first type "alien righteousness" because it was not our own but Christ's imputed to us.

The second he called "proper righteousness" which is only made possible by the first one.
Well that cleared that up? Martin was a brave man to go against the RC, but in his effort to break free from Rome he made the salvation doctrines more difficult to understand. That is why there were 4 reformation churches in the first year of the reformation, today there are 10's of reformation churches, all teaching different doctrines of salvation.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
You must be getting tired of defending your belief system?
A. No not really
B. Not my belief system, but rather what the bible teaches

Try again...oh and to the above, God inspired the Koine Greek N.T.....one would be a fool not to give creedance and weight to the words and tenses inspired!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
You can keep this game up for ever, but it does not prove anything. Just your 1 thought from the bible and your interpretation of your bible. Your Greek and your context and your definition of salvation, and your definition of everything else, which does not agree with 65% of the Christian world. [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
So what.....and the number would be more like 90% plus.......and your not that bright if you think that makes you right and me wrong.............!
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
In all seriousness you need to some research!

The SDA Church is not just "another denomination", but a little strange and eccentric!
Please understand that an Adventist looks at ANY other person who regards themselves as Christian and just sees a condemned apostate!
Most emphatically Adventists do not look at an Evangelical and see a Christian brother, far from it!
In fact, if you have the courage to really investigate the origin of the Adventist Church then you will discover the naked hatred they have for EVERY other Christian group!
This is not hyperbole - this can be independently verified!
Is that because they believe that Saturday is the proper day to worship the Lord? And if you do not worhip on the right day, then you are an apostate?

Or do they have doctrinal issues as well?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
Is that because they believe that Saturday is the proper day to worship the Lord? And if you do not worhip on the right day, then you are an apostate?

Or do they have doctrinal issues as well?
Yep I think so.

Look up SDA, mark of the beast in Revelation
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
<><.t.><>


That is why I worded my question as: Church or Church-type.

I attend Indian Hills Community Church, which only a few, who have heard me mention it OR who have ever driven past it, have ever heard of it.

So I use the type of Church when explaining to you all, that it is a Non-Denominational Conservative Evangelical type of Church.

Now from what I know, I think that dcon lives WAY OUT in the Country, and their may be a Catholic or Lutheran Church near him, but not a Like-Minded Church.

My guess the Church that dcon would like would have a Doctrinal Statement of Faith that I Gravitate to. We moved a lot in our younger years, so we sought out Churches, that would have the Conservative Evangelical style of Doctrinal Statement. Yes, that is in several denominations, because we moved to several small towns. I apologize, because this will get to a length, that I usually do not like, or is not called for. (dcon, if you read this, tell my what you think of this Statement of faith.) I chose a Church that is way out of my area, because I wanted you to see that such Statements of Faith, are common, among several denominations.

Here is the Doctrinal Statements or something similar that I look for:



[FONT=&quot]This doctrinal statement reflects the broad, mainstream, conservative evangelical tradition which is consistent with the teachings of the Bible and which has stood the test of history and experience. We specifically affirm the following doctrinal truths:[/FONT]
  1. The Scriptures
    We believe that the entire Bible is the inspired Word of God and that men of God “were moved by the Holy Spirit” to write the very words of Scripture. The Bible is therefore without error (inerrant) in its original manuscripts. God has supernaturally preserved the Bible, and it is the sole and final authority for faith and life, providing encouragement, guidance, comfort and instruction for training in righteousness (2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:20-21).
  2. The Godhead (Trinity)
    We believe in one true God eternally existing in three distinct persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) each of Whom is fully and equally God; possesses all of the divine nature and attributes, and is totally worthy of our worship and service (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; John 1:14, John 10:30; 2 Cor. 13:14).
  3. God the Father
    We believe that God the Father is the first person of the Trinity and is the eternal, unchanging all-powerful, all-knowing, all-wise, all-loving, completely just and perfectly holy, sovereign Ruler and Sustainer of the universe. He is the Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and the Father of all true believers (Gen. 1:1; Eph. 4:6; John 1:12-13, John 5:19-21, John 17:1-5; Isa. 40:21-28, Isa. 43:10-13, Isa. 46:8-11; Rom. 8:14-16).
  4. God the Son
    We believe that Jesus Christ is the second person of the Trinity and is the only begotten eternal Son of God Who became flesh to reveal God to man, to fulfill prophecy, and to become the Savior of the lost world. In becoming man Jesus did not cease in any way to be God so that He is fully God and fully man inseparably united in one person forever. Jesus was miraculously conceived by the Holy Spirit; born of the Virgin Mary; lived a sinless life; died on the cross as the substitutionary, all-sufficient atoning sacrifice for all of the sins of all men of all time; was buried; bodily rose from the dead; physically ascended into heaven in His glorified, resurrected body; is seated at the right hand of the Father performing His ministry of intercession; will return in the air to claim His bride the church; and will come again to earth in bodily form, personally and visibly, to conclude human history and consummate God’s eternal plan by executing judgment and ushering in His Millennial Kingdom reign to be followed by the eternal state (John 1:1,14,18; John 3:16; Luke 1:30-35; Phil. 2:5-8; Col. 2:3,9; Mark 10:45; Acts 2:22-24; John 1:29; Rom. 3:25-26; Heb. 10:5-14; 1 Pet. 2:24, 1 Pet. 3:18; John 20:20; Phil. 3:20-21; Heb. 1:3; Rom. 8:34; 1 John 2:1; Acts 1:11; Heb. 9:28; 1 Thes. 4:13-18; 2 Thes. 2:7; Matt. 24:44; Rev. 19:11-21; Rev. 21-22).
  5. God the Holy Spirit
    We believe that the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity Who specially came into the world on the day of Pentecost to glorify Christ and to enable men to appropriate the salvation wrought by Christ. He is the primary agent for the conviction of sin and for regeneration. Simultaneously with salvation, the Holy Spirit imparts new life, baptizes the believer into the body of Christ (His church), permanently indwells the believer, and securely seals the believer unto the day of redemption. The Holy Spirit fills (directs and controls) those believers who are yielded to Him, enables believers to bear fruit, and empowers believers to live a life free from sin’s dominion. We also believe that the Holy Spirit gives spiritual gifts to believers for the purpose of edifying the church in accordance with the teachings of scripture (1 Cor. 13:8, 1 Cor. 14:22; John 16:7-8; 1 Cor. 6:19, 1 Cor. 12:13; Eph. 1:13-14, Eph. 4:30; Gal. 5:16-17, Gal. 22-23; Rom. 8:5-13; 1 Pet. 4:10-11; Rom. 12:3-8).
  6. Man
    We believe that man was created in the image of God by direct act of God and did not come into being as the result of evolution. Man was created to glorify God, worship and serve Him, and have fellowship with Him. Man fell through sin by disobeying God, thus incurring both physical and spiritual death, which alienated him from God. Man’s nature was thus corrupted and he is utterly lost, “dead in trespasses and sins,” and totally incapable of saving himself and coming back into right relationship with God by his own merit or effort (Gen. 1:26, Gen. 2:6,17, Gen. 3:17-24; Isa. 59:1-2; Rom. 3:9-19,23, Rom. 5:8; Luke 18:26-27; Eph. 2:13).
  7. Satan
    We believe that Satan is the instigator of evil and a real spirit being, not simply the personification of evil. He is a fallen angel who, under the sovereign permission of God, has been given temporary rulership of the earth. He was utterly defeated at the cross, but the execution of his judgment has been postponed by God until after the Millennial Kingdom when he will be cast into the eternal lake of fire. In the meantime, he deceives the world and seeks to establish his counterfeit kingdom on earth to discredit and blaspheme God and to tempt, accuse, attack and destroy believers. He can be resisted by the believer through faith and reliance on the power of the Holy Spirit (Gen. 3:1-5; Isa. 14:12-17; Ezek. 28:11-19; Job 1-2; 1 John 5:19; 2 Cor. 11:14; 1 Tim. 3:6; 1 Pet. 5:8-9; James 4:7; Rev. 12:9, Rev. 20:1-3, Rev. 7-10).
  8. Salvation
    We believe that the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross provides the sole basis for forgiveness of sins and salvation, which is the free gift of God’s grace. Salvation is effected by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit and cannot be secured by man’s works or personal merit. Salvation is only appropriated by a person placing his faith in the finished work of Christ. Repentance is a turning toward God and away from sin and is a part of but not separate from believing faith. “The Gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes” and those who receive Jesus Christ by faith are born again, have their sins forgiven, become children of God, are a new creation in Christ, and “are sealed by the Holy spirit unto the day of redemption” being kept by the power of God (Eph. 1:7:13-14; John 1:12-13, John 3:1-7, John 14-16; 2 Cor. 5:17; Rom. 1:16, Rom. 10:9-10; Eph. 2:8-10; Rom. 8:14-17, Rom. 31-39; John 10:27-29, Rom. 14:6; Acts 26:20; 1 Pet. 1:3-5).
  9. The Christian Life
    We believe that every Christian should live for Christ and not for himself and should, by the power of the indwelling Spirit, allow Christ to manifest His life through him to God’s glory. By ever increasing obedience to the Word of God, each believer should mature and progressively become more like Jesus. In the power of the Spirit, each believer should live a holy life; not fulfill the lusts of the flesh; exercise his spiritual gifts to build up the body of Christ; witness for Christ; be personally involved in making disciples to fulfill the great commission; perform good works and bear fruit to the glory of God (Gal. 2:20; 1 Pet. 1:15-16, 1 Pet. 2:11; 2 Cor. 5:14-15; Rom. 6:11-13; Eph. 2:10, Eph. 4:11-12, Eph. 4:22-24; 1 Pet. 4:10-11; Acts 1:8; Matt. 28:18-20; Col. 1:10; John 15:8, 16).
  10. The Church
    We believe that the church is the body of Christ of which Jesus is the Head and whose members are those who have truly received Christ by faith. The local church is a tangible expression of the body of Christ in a particular location. Since all members of the body of Christ are united in Christ by the same Spirit, they should live in love, harmony and unity, being intent on the same purpose and accepting those sectarian or denominational practices which are based on a sincere interpretation of the Bible, which do not relate to substantive doctrinal matters, and which do not in practice cause disunity or hinder the ministry. The purpose of the church is to make Christ known to lost men and to make disciples, and glorify God on earth (Acts 1:8; 1 Cor. 12:12-27; Eph. 1:20-23, Eph. 4:1-6, Eph. 4:12-16; Matt. 28:18-20; John 17; Col. 1:24-29).
[FONT=&quot]<><.t.><>

The Statement, I READ THROUGH IT, thoroughly. NOTICE: The separation between Statement 8. and Statement 9. That is where some of our members get confused. The try to include 9. with 8. SALVATION, thus they are in BIBLICAL ERRORS that in an effect, they create a FALSE GOSPEL. 8. is what GOD does for us, even though we do not deserve it. 9. Is how we are to LOVE HIM BACK. I WOULD GO TO THAT CHURCH. The only error that I could find is the WORD CHURCH, in Statement 4. That is almost exclusively the WORD that is used, in all denominations. However JESUS NEVER USED THE WORD CHURCH, when HE said: "I will build my assembly". The word in the Greek is ASSEMBLY, { look it up }, was am convinced that HE used it, because I believe HE intended to both of the TRUE BELIEVERS in both the ASSEMBLY of Old Testament Saints, and the ASSEMBLY of New Testament Saints, will be the TWO FOLDS that will be ONE FLOCK, under ONE SHEPHERD, at the RAPTURE.




[/FONT]
Had a brief scan with jet lag....have no issues with your statement.....and I am confident all can see my belief on biblical salvation!
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
Oh yes, SDA does have doctrinal issues: Many including an unpopulated earth for the millennium. But as far as the mark of the beast and the sleeping dead, I believe they are right on.


Why do you believe they are right on?
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
I see fearing God as fear of offending God and a righteous awe and respect for Him (Proverbs 1:7; Psalm 34:9; Isaiah 66:2). Remaining on the roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-security is an unhealthy fear and is no way to live the Christian life!

You missed the point. They are not OSAS but loose their salvation when they sin. This causes them to be in fear (terror) of dying after sinning and before they can ask forgiveness
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
Oh yes, SDA does have doctrinal issues: Many including an unpopulated earth for the millennium. But as far as the mark of the beast and the sleeping dead, I believe they are right on.


All I have to say about this is I never make a misnake.
 
Dec 4, 2017
906
35
0
You should lay off the juice and get right..both this post and the one before it are.....

a. Ignorant
b. Accusatory
c. That of a false witness
d. Lacking knowledge
e. False and misleading
f. Etc.

I have said nothing of the sort or even indicated the foolishness that you spout and accuse of!
You have yet to give a confession..

And everyone reading knows Full Well you have not Confessed Yeshua (Jesus is your Lord and Savior.

Keen Eyes

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Thanks bro...just got into Dallas.....now waiting my flight to the "Lou" as in St. Louis.....with a lovely case of jet lag hahaH
Yep jet lag is a reality, we have relatives in NSW and my wife has 100 relatives in Northern Thailand. Made a few 18hr one way trips to Thailand. The cure for "Jet lag" next time stay home....:cool:

 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
You have yet to give a confession..

And everyone reading knows Full Well you have not Confessed Yeshua (Jesus is your Lord and Savior.

Keen Eyes

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Hahhahahaha man you take the cake....everyone hey....so..what does lying get you in your working for dogma?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Yep jet lag is a reality, we have relatives in NSW and my wife has 100 relatives in Northern Thailand. Made a few 18hr one way trips to Thailand. The cure for "Jet lag" next time stay home....:cool:

Hahahha yeah I hear ya....but lag does not bother me..and used to the flight....have made it 15 times round trip = 30 flights hahha
 
Dec 4, 2017
906
35
0
Yep jet lag is a reality, we have relatives in NSW and my wife has 100 relatives in Northern Thailand. Made a few 18hr one way trips to Thailand. The cure for "Jet lag" next time stay home....:cool:

Their is an unforgivable Sin.
And a murdering, lying thief would lure you to do so.







Better to be lowly in spirit along with the oppressed than to share plunder with the Arrogant.



A song for pilgrims ascending to Jerusalem. A psalm of David. LORD, my heart is not proud; my eyes are not haughty. I don't concern myself with matters too great or too awesome for me to grasp.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Hahhahahaha man you take the cake....everyone hey....so..what does lying get you in your working for dogma?
Can you make sense out of 777pinacled's post, just above your last post, very odd. What does he mean, "the unforgivable sin?"