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L
1 Corinthians 14:34 - Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1 Corinthians 14:35 - And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
It is amazing how a few will argue against what is so clearly written.
1 Corinthians 14:35 - And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
It is amazing how a few will argue against what is so clearly written.
Actually, all you are doing is repeating Scripture without any apparent attempt to understand what it is saying.
Do you raise your hands while praying? Do you speak to those around you in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs? Do you share all good things with those who teach you? Do you put on your spiritual armour? Do you pray continually? Do you call the elders when you're sick? I don't need an answer; I'm pointing out that there are many statements in the NT which are just as direct, and failing to follow all of them should be just as unacceptable to a legalist.
As I have stated before (quite recently) there is a principle of understanding Scripture that says, "If the plain sense makes sense, seek no other sense." The verses allegedly restricting the role of women in the church don't make sense to me given the greater context of the NT in which both Jesus and Paul elevated women within society. So I have dug deeper. If you choose not to dig deeper, that's fine, but please don't bother telling me (or anyone else, for that matter) that your view of interpretation is the only valid one.
I suggest you read through the thread some more and at least try to understand why people believe as they do, rather than thumping them over the head with your views on how to interpret Scripture. By the way, you're the third person to whom I've written that exact statement in the last week.
Do you raise your hands while praying? Do you speak to those around you in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs? Do you share all good things with those who teach you? Do you put on your spiritual armour? Do you pray continually? Do you call the elders when you're sick? I don't need an answer; I'm pointing out that there are many statements in the NT which are just as direct, and failing to follow all of them should be just as unacceptable to a legalist.
As I have stated before (quite recently) there is a principle of understanding Scripture that says, "If the plain sense makes sense, seek no other sense." The verses allegedly restricting the role of women in the church don't make sense to me given the greater context of the NT in which both Jesus and Paul elevated women within society. So I have dug deeper. If you choose not to dig deeper, that's fine, but please don't bother telling me (or anyone else, for that matter) that your view of interpretation is the only valid one.
I suggest you read through the thread some more and at least try to understand why people believe as they do, rather than thumping them over the head with your views on how to interpret Scripture. By the way, you're the third person to whom I've written that exact statement in the last week.
A
Take into consideration the conversation Jesus has with the Pharisees on the Mount of Olives. The exchange between Christ and these religious men begins right after the Lord delivers the woman caught in adultery from their attempts to execute her. Jesus tells the woman, "I don't condemn you."
Jesus then says to the Pharisees that He Himself is the Light of the world and whoever follows Him will never walk in darkness. That's because Christ Jesus Himself is the Living Word alive in our hearts. Those who have ears, can hear Him. The Pharisees don’t hear Him.
They’re angry at the Lord for liberating the woman and they want to challenge Him so they can find a reason to kill Him. They believe they are valid witnesses for each other and they use the scriptures as evidence to support their accusations against the Lord. They start by accusing Jesus of being His own witness, which they declare can't be valid.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. [SUP]15 [/SUP]You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. [SUP]17 [/SUP]In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. [SUP]18 [/SUP]I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”
Now of course we know the Pharisees were angry because Jesus kept derailing their religious bureaucracy and they weren’t about to give up their domination over people. Their motive was crystal clear. All their efforts were to discredit Jesus so they could continue to be seen as righteous rulers of the Law. When they couldn’t outwit the Lord, they tried to stone Him but He went away from them. And of course, they ultimately crucified Him.
Ladies, if spiritually blind men refused to see the Light of the World Who was standing right in front of them, they aren’t going to see Christ in us on this message board. We may as well talk to the wind. Jesus told the Pharisees they judged everything according to the outward and that their witness was false, even though they used the Law to prove it. The men who are condemning us here are doing the exact same thing, using the Law of God to validate their judgment of outward things.
It takes some people a long time to come to the knowledge of the truth that the flesh cannot receive anything from God. The intellectual mind is not a valid witness. You can study till kingdom come and still be blind in your heart. Using the Law of God to judge according to the flesh is a false witness. Jesus said so. That's the Truth.
God judges the heart. He reveals our motives by the Light of Life in our hearts.
Having said that, let’s ask ourselves:
1. What would be the motive of religious men who ridicule, accuse and condemn Christian women in ministry?
2. What would be the motive of women who spread the Gospel through ministry and who refuse to let anyone deter them from that purpose?
3. What do you believe Jesus would say if He was on this thread? (Hint: Read the entire account in John 8 for the answer.)
Jesus then says to the Pharisees that He Himself is the Light of the world and whoever follows Him will never walk in darkness. That's because Christ Jesus Himself is the Living Word alive in our hearts. Those who have ears, can hear Him. The Pharisees don’t hear Him.
They’re angry at the Lord for liberating the woman and they want to challenge Him so they can find a reason to kill Him. They believe they are valid witnesses for each other and they use the scriptures as evidence to support their accusations against the Lord. They start by accusing Jesus of being His own witness, which they declare can't be valid.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. [SUP]15 [/SUP]You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. [SUP]17 [/SUP]In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. [SUP]18 [/SUP]I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”
Now of course we know the Pharisees were angry because Jesus kept derailing their religious bureaucracy and they weren’t about to give up their domination over people. Their motive was crystal clear. All their efforts were to discredit Jesus so they could continue to be seen as righteous rulers of the Law. When they couldn’t outwit the Lord, they tried to stone Him but He went away from them. And of course, they ultimately crucified Him.
Ladies, if spiritually blind men refused to see the Light of the World Who was standing right in front of them, they aren’t going to see Christ in us on this message board. We may as well talk to the wind. Jesus told the Pharisees they judged everything according to the outward and that their witness was false, even though they used the Law to prove it. The men who are condemning us here are doing the exact same thing, using the Law of God to validate their judgment of outward things.
It takes some people a long time to come to the knowledge of the truth that the flesh cannot receive anything from God. The intellectual mind is not a valid witness. You can study till kingdom come and still be blind in your heart. Using the Law of God to judge according to the flesh is a false witness. Jesus said so. That's the Truth.
God judges the heart. He reveals our motives by the Light of Life in our hearts.
Having said that, let’s ask ourselves:
1. What would be the motive of religious men who ridicule, accuse and condemn Christian women in ministry?
2. What would be the motive of women who spread the Gospel through ministry and who refuse to let anyone deter them from that purpose?
3. What do you believe Jesus would say if He was on this thread? (Hint: Read the entire account in John 8 for the answer.)
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Since Paul said there is neither male nor female in Christ, it could be argued that it is carnal and showing partiality to forbid women to teach. And of course, the law says showing partiality is sin.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28
S
as I already identified the bold above as what I see? why lump me with the 'so called so many'?
I guess you were not really paying that much attention
anything else?
I guess you were not really paying that much attention
anything else?
There are a few on this forum that are easy to recognize by what they teach. There a many on TV and on the internet.
I don't know you or your church, so can not judge. I assume you are a Christian and your church belongs to Jesus.
If I did not speak clearly, I am sorry.
In Colossians 1:7 and 4:7, 1 Timothy 4:6, and 2 Corinthians 3:6, the word "minister" (or "ministers") is a translation of the Greek word, "diakonos" (or cognates) which is also used of "Phoebe our sister, a servant" (diakonon) in Romans 16:1.
That's how a woman can be a minister.
I guess you have been proven wrong by Scripture... but you go on believing as you wish.
That's how a woman can be a minister.
I guess you have been proven wrong by Scripture... but you go on believing as you wish.
L
Nobody claimed that God was not within you ladies. What has been claimed is that you are not listening to one of His commands. God is in many a person that does not listen to every command that He has. These men opposing your stance are not judging by any outward things. They are believing in the "inward" Bible and passing along it's truth. They are not listening to any Pharisee, they are listening to God. Very true, God does judge the heart and how can one say their heart is with God when they refuse to follow His commands ?.
It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.Deuteronomy 13:4
Walk in obedience to all that the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess. Deuteronomy 5:33
Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.John 12:26
It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.Deuteronomy 13:4
Walk in obedience to all that the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess. Deuteronomy 5:33
Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.John 12:26
J
did the Most High say that or did Paul say that?
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
that does not sound like the Most High speaking through a prophet. he even says "I" do not . . ., the "I" is Paul.
the Most High chose Anna as one of the witnesses for the temple dedication for Jesus. one man and one women. not two men. and yes, Anna spoke in the temple. dont tell Paul.
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
that does not sound like the Most High speaking through a prophet. he even says "I" do not . . ., the "I" is Paul.
the Most High chose Anna as one of the witnesses for the temple dedication for Jesus. one man and one women. not two men. and yes, Anna spoke in the temple. dont tell Paul.
Wow! I am so glad I go to a church that allows me to preach, because I spent 7 years in seminary, getting my Master of Divinity, including learning how to preach properly. And that my church, women and men, appreciate the detail I give to the Bible, and the message the Holy Spirit has given me to preach.
We had a couple of men preach that were clueless! They were never asked back to preach, although I am regularly asked. I have broken no command of God, who called me not once, but twice to study and learn the Bible.
Why twice? Because the first time, even though it was so loud and clear, I thought women couldn’t be pastors, and didn’t even talk to my husband about it. Only recently, he said how he wished I had gone way back then, so we could have all been closer to God. To say nothing of where God called me to go, being the top seminary in the world, with the top theologians. And I am so grateful to God that he gave me that second change to serve him, and God’s people
Oh, and by the way, my pastor is an open theist, which is a heresy. He is pretty careful about not preaching on it, since we have so many well trained people, ex pastors and missionaries. But, the moment he opens his mouth and claims God is not sovereign, I will take him to task. Privately, at first of course!
Where did you get your Bible training? Just curious, because you seem to not understand the Bible at all. Well, at least in this matter.
We had a couple of men preach that were clueless! They were never asked back to preach, although I am regularly asked. I have broken no command of God, who called me not once, but twice to study and learn the Bible.
Why twice? Because the first time, even though it was so loud and clear, I thought women couldn’t be pastors, and didn’t even talk to my husband about it. Only recently, he said how he wished I had gone way back then, so we could have all been closer to God. To say nothing of where God called me to go, being the top seminary in the world, with the top theologians. And I am so grateful to God that he gave me that second change to serve him, and God’s people
Oh, and by the way, my pastor is an open theist, which is a heresy. He is pretty careful about not preaching on it, since we have so many well trained people, ex pastors and missionaries. But, the moment he opens his mouth and claims God is not sovereign, I will take him to task. Privately, at first of course!
Where did you get your Bible training? Just curious, because you seem to not understand the Bible at all. Well, at least in this matter.