Have The 10 Commandments Been Abolished?

[Shamah]

There's the 4th and 5th places it's mentioned that the law is abolished/done away (καταργέω).

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, “Are we then doing away with the Law* through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law*!”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:14, “For we know that the Law is spiritual...”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."[/FONT]

 

[loyaldisciple]

You are still judging by the outside of a man, humanly. This leads to thinking one is in the obedience. It causes a man to say about the law to not murderh, I have always kept that one and have always obeyed it. But this is to look at things humanly.

False. It is not simply "humanly" to follow a law against murder as you have suggested. In fact, it is much more Godlike than humanlike to follow that law as God commanded that law before any human did. What is humanly is how you choose to cherry-pick the Bible only following the commands which you like. That is what is clearly humanly.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Lawlessness is not obeying the living voice of GOD.

That's your own invention. Lawlessness = transgression of the Law = disobedience to the Law.

God does NOT have to speak audibly or inaudibly about this since He already spoke once and then carved the Law into tablets of stone on Mt Sinai. Therefore many translations translate anomia as "transgression of the Law".

Strong's Concordance

anomia: lawlessness​

Original Word: ἀνομία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: anomia
Phonetic Spelling: (an-om-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: lawlessness, iniquity
Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 458: ἀνομία

ἀνομία, ἀνομίας, ἡ (ἄνομος);1. properly, the condition of one without law — either because ignorant of it, or because violating it.
2. contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness: Matthew 23:28; Matthew 24:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:8 (T Tr text WH text; cf. ἁμαρτία, 1, p. 30f), 7; Titus 2:14; 1 John 3:4. opposed to ἡδικαιοσύνη, 2 Corinthians 6:14; Hebrews 1:9 (notTdf.) (Xenophon, mem. 1, 2, 24 ἀνομία μᾶλλον ἤδικαιοσύνη χρώμενοι); and to ἡ δικαιοσύνηand ὁ ἁγιασμός, Romans 6:19 (τῇ ἀνομία εἰςτήν ἀνομίαν to iniquity — personified — in order to work iniquity); ποιεῖν τήν ἀνομίαν to do iniquity, act wickedly, Matthew 13:41; 1 John 3:4; in the same sense, ἐργάζεσθαι τήν ἀνομίαν,Matthew 7:23; plural αἱ ἀνομίαι manifestations of disregard for law, iniquities, evil deeds: Romans 4:7(Psalm 31:1 ()); Hebrews 8:12 (R G L); Hebrews 10:17. (In Greek writings from (Herodotus 1, 96) Thucydidesdown; often in the Sept.) (Synonym: cf. Trench, § lxvi.; Tittm. 1:48; Ellicott on Titus 2:14.)

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Romans 3:31, “Are we then doing away with the Law* through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law*!”

I'm glad you brought this verse up. Doing away in your translation is the same Greek word that is translated abolish/done away in other verses Paul wrote about the law. That seems to be a contradiction, so I had to research it. I've been wanting to make some comments about it to show what I found.

In the Greek, there are no definite articles before either instance of the word law, but there is a definite article before the word faith. So this is what it really says:

Therefore, do we nullify law through the faith? May it never be! But we uphold law. Romans 3:31​

So obviously Paul wasn't specifying the law of Moses, but was referring to law itself. And he wasn't talking about faith in general, but specified the faith, i.e., the way, the path, the teachings of Christ, the gospel. So we aren't nullifying law itself by following the faith because it is new covenant law. We are upholding law.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That's your own invention. Lawlessness = transgression of the Law = disobedience to the Law.

That's your interpretation that the law of Moses is the only law of GOD. GOD's voice is law for he said numerous times, "Obey my voice". GOD's voice is living spirit, not inanimate letters.

 

[Jackson123]

10 c is still there, but we not practice 10 c anymore. We are under New Covenant, save by faith and work is product of good faith in Jesus.

 

[Shamah]

10 c is still there, but we not practice 10 c anymore. We are under New Covenant, save by faith and work is product of good faith in Jesus.

Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”


Romans 3:31, “Are we then doing away with the Law* through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law*!”

 

[Shamah]

I'm glad you brought this verse up. Doing away in your translation is the same Greek word that is translated abolish/done away in other verses Paul wrote about the law. That seems to be a contradiction, so I had to research it. I've been wanting to make some comments about it to show what I found.

In the Greek, there are no definite articles before either instance of the word law, but there is a definite article before the word faith. So this is what it really says:

Therefore, do we nullify law through the faith? May it never be! But we uphold law. Romans 3:31​

So obviously Paul wasn't specifying the law of Moses, but was referring to law itself. And he wasn't talking about faith in general, but specified the faith, i.e., the way, the path, the teachings of Christ, the gospel. So we aren't nullifying law itself by following the faith because it is new covenant law. We are upholding law.

OK sure thats what he was saying... you are too much...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]


[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it his not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."[/FONT]

 

[Jackson123]

Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”


Romans 3:31, “Are we then doing away with the Law* through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law*!”

yes base on romans 3:28 wejustified by faith, not by 10 c.

and good faith produce good work, not killing every day

 

[Shamah]

yes base on romans 3:28 wejustified by faith, not by 10 c.

and good faith produce good work, not killing every day

Romans 3:31, “Are we then doing away with the Law* through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law*!”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]

 

[Jackson123]

Romans 3:31, “Are we then doing away with the Law* through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law*!”

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושעMessiah."

No we not doing away with the law.

we establish the law.

this is establish law of sabbath or rest


[h=1]Matthew 11:28 King James Version (KJV)[/h]28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest./​sabbath

 

[Shamah]

No we not doing away with the law.

we establish the law.

this is establish law of sabbath or rest


Matthew 11:28 King James Version (KJV)

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest./​sabbath

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."



[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"[/FONT]

 

[Jackson123]

Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."




Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

so rest only mean death?

how about 4 th commandment, rest on Saturday mean death on Saturday?

how about mat 11

[h=1]Matthew 11:28 King James Version (KJV)[/h]28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

every body that come to Jesus death on the spot?

 

[tourist]

so rest only mean death?

how about 4 th commandment, rest on Saturday mean death on Saturday?

how about mat 11

Matthew 11:28 King James Version (KJV)

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

every body that come to Jesus death on the spot?

They rest from their labors because they are now asleep awaiting the resurrection from their slumber. Rest and death are two different things.

 

[Shamah]

so rest only mean death?

how about 4 th commandment, rest on Saturday mean death on Saturday?

how about mat 11

Matthew 11:28 King James Version (KJV)

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

every body that come to Jesus death on the spot?

Im not being rude, just asking, do you not read english well? maybe that is the issue in our discussion?

Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

the dead in Messiah "rest" because they are going to the kingdom.

"to give you who are afflictedrest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers"


2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, “Clear evidence of the righteous judgment of יהוה, in order for you to be counted worthy of the reign of יהוה, for which you also suffer, since יהוה shall rightly repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflictedrest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know יהוה, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master יהושע Messiah, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Master and from the esteem of His strength, when He comes to be esteemed in His set-apart ones and to be admired among all those who believe in that Day, because our witness to you was believed.”


1 Peter 1:3-9, “Blessed be the Strength and Father of our Master יהושע Messiah, who according to His great compassion has caused us to be born again to a living expectation through the resurrection of יהושע Messiah from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in the heavens for you, who are protected by the power of Yah through belief, for a deliverance ready to be revealed in the last time, in which you exult, even though for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by manifold trials, in order that the proving of your belief – much more precious than gold that perishes, and proven by fire – might be found to result in praise and respect and esteem at the revelation of יהושע Messiah, whom having not seen, you love; in whom you exult with unspeakable and esteemed joy, yet not seeing, but believing, obtaining the goal of your belief: a deliverance of lives.”


1 Peter 1:23, “Having been begotten, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of Yah, which lives and remains forever.”

 

[Jackson123]

They rest from their labors because they are now asleep awaiting the resurrection from their slumber. Rest and death are two different things.

is come to Jesus, consider as a rest/sabbath or death?

[h=1]Matthew 11:28 King James Version (KJV)[/h]28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest./sabbath
,

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

False. It is not simply "humanly" to follow a law against murder as you have suggested. In fact, it is much more Godlike than humanlike to follow that law as God commanded that law before any human did. What is humanly is how you choose to cherry-pick the Bible only following the commands which you like. That is what is clearly humanly.

Yes, it is. It is to take your human understanding and apply it to the verse rather than to have the Spirit teach you all things.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I'm glad you brought this verse up. Doing away in your translation is the same Greek word that is translated abolish/done away in other verses Paul wrote about the law. That seems to be a contradiction, so I had to research it. I've been wanting to make some comments about it to show what I found.

In the Greek, there are no definite articles before either instance of the word law, but there is a definite article before the word faith. So this is what it really says:

Therefore, do we nullify law through the faith? May it never be! But we uphold law. Romans 3:31​

So obviously Paul wasn't specifying the law of Moses, but was referring to law itself. And he wasn't talking about faith in general, but specified the faith, i.e., the way, the path, the teachings of Christ, the gospel. So we aren't nullifying law itself by following the faith because it is new covenant law. We are upholding law.

Here's Romans 3:31 in Greek interlinear form showing that there are no definite articles (i.e., the) for law, but there is one for faith (τῆς). IMO that translation is correct except for excluding the word the before the word faith.

This is how the bible handles the same in other verses. Noticed how is says the faith instead of faith.

And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily. Acts 16:5​

Here's the Greek interlinear for that verse

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."[/FONT]

 

[Shamah]

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
​