Condoms or Abstinence

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lil-rush

Guest
#21
#21
Secular schools will teach with a secular mindset, so it would be pointless to try and make secular schools teach with a Godly mindset. As such, secular schools should teach abstinence and condoms conjunctively.

Christian schools should be teaching with a Godly mindset, so they should teach abstinence only. It would confuse the mind for a Christian teacher to say "God says no premarital sex, but, if you're going to do it, use a condom."

If I was a health teacher at a Christian school I would tell my students "Don't have sex, because it is a sin. If you do have sex, you're going to suffer the consequences, whether you use a condom or not. God isn't appeased by you wearing a condom."
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#22
Dec 19, 2009
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#22
lil-rush said:
Secular schools will teach with a secular mindset, so it would be pointless to try and make secular schools teach with a Godly mindset. As such, secular schools should teach abstinence and condoms conjunctively.
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No, I think Christians need to exert a positive influence on the world, not stand by and watch it destroy itself.
 
K

KnightdeKhristos

Guest
#23
#23
I believe that they should learn abstinence, but should also be properly educated about sex and its consequences.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#24
Dec 19, 2009
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#24
KnightdeKhristos said:
I believe that they should learn abstinence, but should also be properly educated about sex and its consequences.
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Yes.

Of course, the debate here might be: Who is going to teach them those things? Should it only be the parents? Should the church do that? Should it be done at school? Is the school qualified to teach these things?
 
Shard

Shard

Banned
#25
Jul 8, 2010
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#25
Public schools are not christian organizations. Teach them about abstinence all you want but it doesnt matter. Most wont listen. Providing condoms at least helps stem the spread of STD's and pregnancies. If you cant see that not everyone is going to follow your christian view then its pointless in this topic. Regardless of what we believe the way things should be done is, the reality is completely different.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#26
Dec 19, 2009
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#26
Shard said:
Public schools are not christian organizations. Teach them about abstinence all you want but it doesnt matter. Most wont listen. Providing condoms at least helps stem the spread of STD's and pregnancies. If you cant see that not everyone is going to follow your christian view then its pointless in this topic. Regardless of what we believe the way things should be done is, the reality is completely different.
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We still have to exert a positive influence, don’t we?
 
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JohnKnox

Guest
#27
#27
The thing about kids is, you can't tell them anything. And telling them not to do it is something they so don't wanna hear. For better or for worse, the society I live in teaches that restraint is not possible, so you might as well give in. So as much as I would like it to, I have a hard time imagining how preaching abstinence en masse would work.
Western civilization believed in abstinence before, so it could again, but not after some fundamental change.
 
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Blueberry

Guest
#28
#28
I am all for abstinence, and believe teens should be taught it. However, I live in a world where a teen may listen to you and still go out and do whatever the heck they want. Now if I haven't given them proper advice on the ways of the world, two things may happen. They may contract an std, or become pregnant. How is this being responsible by letting young kids with the power in their bodies to spread or contract a disease, or create a new human being on this planet.?

I am stunned by the statistics that say teen pregnancies are quite high in the bible belt. Now obviously abstinence is being taught to them, but the facts say its not working. Do we put our heads in the sand and ignore the obvious fact that teens are in a special, difficult time in their lives and don't have the full capacity to make proper adult decisions. They will do whatever they want, regardless of what they have been taught. How will you stop it? Be with them every minute of the day?

I remember being a teen, not being a christian and being promiscious in the bush, cars, wherever, playgrounds. Now I know christian teens aren't supposed to do that sort of behaviour. You would hope that they would listen to your teaching, and be guided in their own relationship with God. However, they are human, and they will sin, just like anybody else out there. Now would you prefer to be guilty of them coming to you with news that a baby is coming and they are 15yrs old, or they have contracted an std. How would you feel? Do you think they dont have a right as human beings to know that they can be protected from that? Its a two edged sword, but realistically I think its tantamount to abuse not to teach them that if they choose to go down a sinful path, there can be consequences. Would you seriously want one of those consequences for a 16yr old to be HIV? Come on...Its like saying men dont look at pornography as christians, or christian men and women dont have affairs. You have to live in the real world, and there are some pretty real world consequences out there.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#29
Dec 19, 2009
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#29
JohnKnox said:
The thing about kids is, you can't tell them anything. And telling them not to do it is something they so don't wanna hear. For better or for worse, the society I live in teaches that restraint is not possible, so you might as well give in. So as much as I would like it to, I have a hard time imagining how preaching abstinence en masse would work.
Western civilization believed in abstinence before, so it could again, but not after some fundamental change.
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You obey Jesus—you NEVER give in.
 
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sandstorm7

Guest
#30
#30
I know the consequences of not being surrounded with the teaching that "abstinence is key" first hand. I went to a Catholic school growing up but, in all those years, abstinence was never a focus. Sure we talked about it in religion class once or twice, but that was it. In health class we talked about the risks of having sexual relations with someone and, although condoms were not really promoted, they were still talked about as an effective way to avoid these risks. WHAT A HUGE MISTAKE! Sure, they educated us about the risks and methods of prevention... but where did that get the students? Absolutely nowhere. All it gave us was a group of confused kids who focused more on "safe sex" than "no sex" and I blame that on a lack of focus on WHY abstinence is important. It's so frustrating to see all these students going through the school system being taught like this!! If only I had known back then what I know now...

And this doesn't just apply to Christian, Catholic etc. schools either. Abstinence should be promoted in ALL school systems! It just needs to be taken with a different approach in public schools. The benefits to abstinence are endless and this needs to be drilled into the students minds. It IS possible to switch the focus from "safe sex" to "no sex" but there needs to be a drastic change!!

I know most of you are saying, "teens these days won't listen to you, you need to be realistic, you need to inform them about birth control and condoms..." and there is definitely some truth to that. But I think the real problem is that people have just stopped TRYING to talk about abstinence. It's all about risk prevention now. And obviously that kind of teaching is just going to lead kids to think "well sex must be okay then... why wouldn't it be?" Most don't know the answer to that question because they are not TAUGHT it. They are taught about the risks, yeah. But they are also taught these risks can be prevented. Are they taught about the impact sex can have on a relationship? On yourself? On your life? NO!!

So many of the people I grew up with in school have become so lost in this sin just because of the lack of teaching about it. I fully believe this to be the main cause. We all had the idea that sex was "wrong" but no one knew why and no one understood. Me included. And now that I finally understand, it makes me so incredibly frustrated that all my younger siblings will be going into this same school system and learning the same destructive things I learned. I plan on intervening with them, but I can do nothing for all the other students there. People need to open their eyes!!!
 
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resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#31
Dec 19, 2009
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#31
Blueberry said:
I am all for abstinence, and believe teens should be taught it. However, I live in a world where a teen may listen to you and still go out and do whatever the heck they want. Now if I haven't given them proper advice on the ways of the world, two things may happen. They may contract an std, or become pregnant. How is this being responsible by letting young kids with the power in their bodies to spread or contract a disease, or create a new human being on this planet.?

I am stunned by the statistics that say teen pregnancies are quite high in the bible belt. Now obviously abstinence is being taught to them, but the facts say its not working. Do we put our heads in the sand and ignore the obvious fact that teens are in a special, difficult time in their lives and don't have the full capacity to make proper adult decisions. They will do whatever they want, regardless of what they have been taught. How will you stop it? Be with them every minute of the day?

I remember being a teen, not being a christian and being promiscious in the bush, cars, wherever, playgrounds. Now I know christian teens aren't supposed to do that sort of behaviour. You would hope that they would listen to your teaching, and be guided in their own relationship with God. However, they are human, and they will sin, just like anybody else out there. Now would you prefer to be guilty of them coming to you with news that a baby is coming and they are 15yrs old, or they have contracted an std. How would you feel? Do you think they dont have a right as human beings to know that they can be protected from that? Its a two edged sword, but realistically I think its tantamount to abuse not to teach them that if they choose to go down a sinful path, there can be consequences. Would you seriously want one of those consequences for a 16yr old to be HIV? Come on...Its like saying men dont look at pornography as christians, or christian men and women dont have affairs. You have to live in the real world, and there are some pretty real world consequences out there.
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If you feed a sexual addiction by providing condoms, you make things worse. In the long run, people are MORE likely to become pregnant, acquire diseases, and commit sexual crimes if you feed the addiction. Do kids a favor and don’t feed their addictions.
 
P

paul1149

Guest
#32
#32
The problem is greatly exacerbated by the stripping of moral values from the public square. The government takes our tax money and thanks to humanist academists and politically empowered teachers' unions resists any attempts to enable meaningful school choice, in most cases financially forcing families to use public schools.

Zero religion or religious values are allowed in these schools. The schools used to be "in loco parentis", standing in for parents in the sense of carrying out their wishes. But many Christian parents now find them standing against the parents, deeply antagonistic to their values and wishes.

So when sex ed is taught, a few token minutes are spent on abstinence, then the rest on the mechanics of sex and pregnancy/disease avoidance. In the values-neutral, mixed-gender classroom environment, modesty is the first casualty. You simply cannot inculcate good values in this atmosphere. You can only create the impression that the cultural authorities are approbating the behavior, and you can feed negative peer pressure.

And the same thing is going on culture-wide. Parents have been relegated to the role of providers, but have been denied their position of moral guardian.

All this at a time in the teen's life when hormones are freshly awakened, perceptions are confused, and wisdom from life experience is thin.

I believe in chastity education - abstinence before and monogamy after marriage. But at this point the problem is far greater than that, and requires a multifaceted approach. It's a difficult age to raise a child. Bless parents and children alike.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#33
Dec 19, 2009
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#33
Virgins marry and live happily ever after. The rest of, except those called into a life of celibacy, struggle. This is the most important reason for teaching abstinence, I believe.
 
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sandstorm7

Guest
#34
#34
resurrection33 said:
If you feed a sexual addiction by providing condoms, you make things worse. In the long run, people are MORE likely to become pregnant, acquire diseases, and commit sexual crimes if you feed the addiction. Do kids a favor and don’t feed their addictions.
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Thank you!!! People need to realize that this is NOT helping. It's making things worse. I have seen TOO many people from high school get lost in sexual sin and experience the consequences of it because of how things are taught. It needs to stop!!
 
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silverwind

Guest
#35
#35
"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it" Proverbs 22:6
It is the parents responsibility to train up a child, not the schools'. That would include sex education. I would call it something like 'the anti-sex-education- protection-program'. At home is where it's at.
 
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sandstorm7

Guest
#36
#36
silverwind said:
"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it" Proverbs 22:6
It is the parents responsibility to train up a child, not the schools'. That would include sex education. I would call it something like 'the anti-sex-education- protection-program'. At home is where it's at.
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What about all of the students who have parents who DON'T teach about abstinence? Do we just forget about them? I think that it should be incorporated into schools as well so it can reach ALL of the students. I'm not saying it's going to work all of the time, but at least kids will hear. They need to know.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#37
Dec 19, 2009
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#37
silverwind said:
"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it" Proverbs 22:6
It is the parents responsibility to train up a child, not the schools'. That would include sex education. I would call it something like 'the anti-sex-education- protection-program'. At home is where it's at.
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Yes, try as we might, our control over the world is limited. (That might be a good thing.) Parents have to teach their children the right things.
 
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silverwind

Guest
#38
#38
It would only work if abstinence is the ONLY option taught. If the schools teach abstinence in addition to other methods then kids will always excuse that they were given choices, meaning 'whatever you teach me is ok'. What secular school will teach abstinence only? That would mean putting God back into education. You cannot teach abstinence and throw the condom in on the side-line in hope that kids will choose abstinence. (to sandstorm7)
 
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sandstorm7

Guest
#39
#39
silverwind said:
It would only work if abstinence is the ONLY option taught. If the schools teach abstinence in addition to other methods then kids will always excuse that they were given choices, meaning 'whatever you teach me is ok'. What secular school will teach abstinence only? That would mean putting God back into education. You cannot teach abstinence and throw the condom in on the side-line in hope that kids will choose abstinence. (to sandstorm7)
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Alright, I do agree with that. I guess it's just frustrating knowing that. I guess my main issue is that I went to a Catholic school and I believe abstinence needed to be the ONLY thing taught. Throwing in teachings of risk prevention just confused the message for many students...
 
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silverwind

Guest
#40
#40
resurrection33 said:
Yes, try as we might, our control over the world is limited. (That might be a good thing.) Parents have to teach their children the right things.
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Yep. Unfortunately many parents don't want to touch a very 'touchy' subject and hence leave it up to someone else.
 
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