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loyaldisciple
Guest
What a ridiculous statement. That is declaring that all preachers are non-believers.
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What a ridiculous statement. That is declaring that all preachers are non-believers.
You would not have this text if church would not preserve it for you, put it to one book for you and call it inspired and translate it for you... so, you are still dependent on the body of Christ.
And the same church is built with the help of many apostles and Paul is one of them.
Romans 1:18 isn't addressing women specifically. Adding to scripture Ralphy? Can it be that YOU are suppressing truth by your wickedness? Your need to control and dominate, where does it come from?
[FONT="]18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT]
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loyaldisciple
Guest
No, you and your friend has misunderstood. Preaching is also done unto believers. Preaching and teaching are synonyms, reflecting they are often the same thing.
preach
[prēCH]VERB
- deliver a sermon or religious address to an assembled group of people, typically in church.
"he preached to a large congregation" · [more]
synonyms: give a sermon · deliver a sermon · sermonize · spread the gospel · [more]
- publicly proclaim or teach (a religious message or belief).
"a church that preaches the good news"
synonyms: proclaim · teach · spread · propagate · expound · explain · [more]
- earnestly advocate (a belief or course of action).
"my parents have always preached toleration and moderation"
synonyms: advocate · recommend · advise · urge · exhort · teach · counsel · [more]
- publicly proclaim or teach (a religious message or belief).
NO.
You misunderstand what Gabriel meant. This isn't about YOU but what the poster intended. You are just being bloody-minded.
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loyaldisciple
Guest
I believe several ladies here have missed my point since the beginning. I do not claim women are unable to preach within a church. I do not claim doing such a thing is beyond their ability. What I'm saying is that this is not the role God has given to them, as they were given a role of "supporting" man and not a role of "leading" man. Of course women could preach in a church, but God gave them a different role, one of support rather than leadership. This is explained very early in the book of Genesis when God said woman was to be man's "helper".
God designed everything on this earth including man and woman and He designed man and woman for different tasks. Since God designed them differently He has told us in the Bible what will work best for an overall society. God has told us that the man leading and the woman supporting works much better than the woman leading and the man supporting. God is not saying that both cannot do both, He has simply told us what works "best" and He should know since He is our creator.
There is no degrading of the woman or any lessening of her value when given the role of supporting. Supporting is every bit as important as leading as they both are necessary for end success. The woman is no less valuable because she is supporting, God loves her just the same as the man. This is simply the role He has given her. For any woman to somehow view that as degrading her is simply not viewing things correctly. Just as God does, I too understand the value of women and do not seek to degrade them in any way. I simply believe that God's plan for men and women is correct. As God is our creator, I have to believe He is correct for man to lead and the woman to be the "helper". If I don't believe in God's plan, then how can I claim to believe in God Himself ?
God designed everything on this earth including man and woman and He designed man and woman for different tasks. Since God designed them differently He has told us in the Bible what will work best for an overall society. God has told us that the man leading and the woman supporting works much better than the woman leading and the man supporting. God is not saying that both cannot do both, He has simply told us what works "best" and He should know since He is our creator.
There is no degrading of the woman or any lessening of her value when given the role of supporting. Supporting is every bit as important as leading as they both are necessary for end success. The woman is no less valuable because she is supporting, God loves her just the same as the man. This is simply the role He has given her. For any woman to somehow view that as degrading her is simply not viewing things correctly. Just as God does, I too understand the value of women and do not seek to degrade them in any way. I simply believe that God's plan for men and women is correct. As God is our creator, I have to believe He is correct for man to lead and the woman to be the "helper". If I don't believe in God's plan, then how can I claim to believe in God Himself ?
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loyaldisciple
Guest
Have I not just shown that teaching and preaching are often the same thing ? Are they not listed as synonyms ? This is proof the other poster was incorrect and nobody is being bloody-minded. Why do you always have to accuse someone of animosity when they simply point out the truth about something ? When you do that Lucy, then it is you that is demonstrating the animosity.
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. As lively stones, built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; having an high priest over the house of God.
(1Pe 2:5,9; Exo 19:6; Rev 1:5-6;Heb 10:19-21)
That version you quoted is missing a word in it's translation. It should be Near obsolete.
So how is the Old covenant near obsolete?
Yes, the issue is heart rebellion in people who want to exercise authority over GOD's people.
But Jesus having called them, says to them, You know that the ones thinking to rule the nations lord against them; and their great ones exercise authority over them. But it will not be thus with you. But who ever should want to become great among you, shall be your servant. Mark 10:42-43
You ignored the overwhelmingly obvious meaning of πείθω - to convince - in order to cherry-pick a definition that has the word obey in it. That's because that word conveys the idea of submitting to a hierarchical power structure that vests power in itself and bestows privilege upon its functionaries to control others. It's all about controlling what others do. "But it will not be thus with you."
I'd like to get Angela involved to see if she thinks my opinion on the grammar is correct. The verb πείθω in Hebrews 13:17 is in the middle voice. IMO using the word obey in the middle voice would be like saying, "You obey yourself", which is nonsensical. But using the word persuade in the middle voice would be like saying "You persuade yourself", which does make sense.
Your comment makes no sense to me. What he said is exactly correct. Many of those people who are responsible for you having what you now have had tremendous faith.
I agree. However To be persuaded TO our leaders is put trust in them; hence obey.
I don't know what you mean by TO. And we are not to trust in our leaders. We are to trust in GOD and hearken to those who speak his words.
I am not talking about "our leaders". But about basics of the church - the first apostles.
Its quite hard not to trust James, Paul or John but to base your life on their writings...
Is your TO a reference to τοις in Hebrews 13:17? If so, that means by means of, i.e., persuade yourselves by means of those leading you and submit to their teachings.
I understand.
Is the following true?
If it is; what is the problem with us? (no offense)Originally Posted by lightbearer
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. The same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. He will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.(Is 48:17; 1Jn 2:27; Joh 16:13)
If it was and is no more; what happened? What is the need for the letter (Bible)?
If it was and is no more but will be; what are we waiting on?
If HE has put HIS Laws in our hearts and in our minds and His Word; Christ in our hearts and in mouths.
If this is the Faith in which we speak; what's going on? What is the need for the Letter if it were not that our Faith is not what is was to be.
We are back to the ink; the ministry written and engraved in stone and not on the heart.
Please don't get me wrong. We need the Holy Writ, but only because we are not yet what GOD had intended through Christ. The Apostles were but the mystery of iniquity had already began it's work in the Church; hence the need for the Letter again; things needed to be written Down that the truth not be lost again due to our Faith not being what it should.
Did you ever notice that the Decalogue and the Book of the Law came after Israel through their stiff necks and hard hearts could not bear the Testimony coming from the FATHER directly?
Lest we die tell Moses and he will tell us was their plea. (Ex. 20:19)
It was not to be! They could not and would not receive the circumcision made without hands. But God had said, I will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the Word (Christ) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart,and in thy hand that thou mayest do it.(Deu 30:6,11-14)
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Oh I see. Yes, we of little faith. But keep in mind, Jesus himself needed the holy writ.
Stop playing the martyr. You are unable to have a reasonable discussion because you lack basic respect for people (not just women) You think you can ride roughshod over the comments of others. You have carefully avoided any discussion of historical context or language. This subject seems to be beyond your ability to comprehend. You are out of your depth.
He was brought up in the Word. But I am hard pressed to believe that the Word made flesh needed the written Word.
Do you have something you wish to share from the Holy Writ to support this? If so I would love to see it.
I am off to work out and take care of a few things. May the LORD continue to bless us all in HIS Way; Jesus Christ.