Are Holy Spirit baptisms claims provable?

[JaumeJ]

When it has been our Father's will, I have been given to speak and learn from what I spoke, that is opened my mouth and spoke. He has given me to know things to say to individuals only each could possibly know in order to underscore the rest of the sahring for the hearer. He has given me to go out into a moonless night in the Rockies from a lodge only to have a young woman practically fall into my arms, and He used my body as a vessel to heal her. Much more, and all was of the power of the Holy Spirit.

I have never felt anything as the Holy Spirit or proceeding from Him, but I have acted by means of the Holy Spirit only to realize I had been used afterwards........I do believe somewhere someone may have prayed and revidved a deceased person, but so far I have not witnessed it........I do know our Father does anything, and anything that pleases Him, and at the same time I believe what pleases Him pleases me in faith that He is Perfect.

 

[joefizz]

this thread is not about seeking truth

this thread is about bashing the gifts of the Holy Spirit

Precisely ,asking for "genuine proof" of a Holy spirit experience and then "denying its true" for the supposed sake of learning but really it's just a sham to put down the gifts of the spirit that people "have experienced" what I call "bait and reel/judge",provide a topic that is popular,pretend you are genuinely interested,then trash everyone's "serious answers" that don't match up with what an individual believes.

 

[Noose]

When it has been our Father's will, I have been given to speak and learn from what I spoke, that is opened my mouth and spoke. He has given me to know things to say to individuals only each could possibly know in order to underscore the rest of the sahring for the hearer. He has given me to go out into a moonless night in the Rockies from a lodge only to have a young woman practically fall into my arms, and He used my body as a vessel to heal her. Much more, and all was of the power of the Holy Spirit.

I have never felt anything as the Holy Spirit or proceeding from Him, but I have acted by means of the Holy Spirit only to realize I had been used afterwards........I do believe somewhere someone may have prayed and revidved a deceased person, but so far I have not witnessed it........I do know our Father does anything, and anything that pleases Him, and at the same time I believe what pleases Him pleases me in faith that He is Perfect.

God can use anyone (believers or not) to do His will- read Nebuchadnezzar's story. God could have used that lady to teach you- i mean, everything that happens, happens because of the will of God and everyone in this world is a player including satan. As much as all people are players, some people can not claim to be special when they are not appointed- remember satan also uses people in the same way.

In a minute Jesus says Peter is right and that flesh and blood did not reveal that to him but the Father in heaven, in the next minute He tells satan in Peter to get behind Him(Jesus). That's why it is never a good idea to feel elevated and special unless you are appointed but appointments never happens lately in this end times because everything was done by Jesus and the disciples.

Jesus says in the end times false teachers will come in His name deceiving and being deceived themselves. These are the kind that have appointed themselves and go teaching truth mixed with falsehoods because they themselves are also deceived whereas in their minds they think they have been appointed.
During judgement day, some will sincerely claim to have done miracles/taught/healed in the name of the Lord but they wont go far with those claims. So what do you think would be the reason for this?

 

[Waggles]

I see you are referring to yourself here Noose
Some honesty at last

Jesus says in the end times false teachers will come in His name deceiving and being deceived themselves.​

 

[Waggles]

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before
of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time,
who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual,
having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith,
praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our
Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jude 1:

 

[DJ2]

Why is it that the unlearned are most vocal ?
taking pride in trumpeting their ignorance of the scriptures
and showing that they do not have the indwelling Holy Spirit?

For if Carl11 and DJ2 actually had the Spirit of truth abiding within
them who knows they might be able to receive and exercise gifts
such as the word of wisdom or the word of knowledge or the
gift of healing or the working of miracles or prophecy - but alas
they both show us all that they have nothing from the Holy Spirit.

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing,
it shall not hurt them;
they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mark 16:18

Why is it that those who claim so much have the least fruit to show for their claims?
taking pride in trumpeting their gifts based on nothing more then simple claims
and showing that they do not have the very indwelling that they claim?

For if Waggles and Deade actually had the Holy Spirit baptism within them there would be no need for their bogus claims. They would simply mimic those who truly had this baptism. Alas, they are but claimants nothing more. Their replies show this, just as all Holy Spirit baptism claimants do. They are given the chance to prove their claims but act offended at the suggestion.

Their defense is the same offered by Mormon "elders" who claim the same thing, "If you doubt my claim, you must be ignorant". On this subject, they are brothers.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Precisely ,asking for "genuine proof" of a Holy spirit experience and then "denying its true" for the supposed sake of learning but really it's just a sham to put down the gifts of the spirit that people "have experienced" what I call "bait and reel/judge",provide a topic that is popular,pretend you are genuinely interested,then trash everyone's "serious answers" that don't match up with what an individual believes.

I'd say you got that just right

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Serpents are not in question, anybody can pick up a serpent. What kind of healing are we talking about also because the Bible is only concerned with one kind of healing one kind of prophecy...etc

What I'm wanting to verify is that if someone slips YOU some cyanide and you drink it unknowingly, that someone has slipped you some cyanide could or would you be able to live and tell about it.

You do understand that the Bible is a spiritual book and God has hidden many truths in his word and we are to search out what the whole Bible has to say concerning this idea. [Prov. 25:2, Jn. 6:63,Ps. 78:2]

well really dude

if you are a believer, that would apply to you also, right?

wait till the paint is dry before stepping out of the corner you backed youself into

if you disbelievers would only check out your own hearts first instead of trying to judge evryone else

the Bible is not just a spiritual book ...you are sounding rather Gnostic now

 

[joefizz]

I'd say you got that just right

I've been around awhile and seen such tricks here on CC before so it's really quite trivial.

 

[joefizz]

Why is it that those who claim so much have the least fruit to show for their claims?
taking pride in trumpeting their gifts based on nothing more then simple claims
and showing that they do not have the very indwelling that they claim?

For if Waggles and Deade actually had the Holy Spirit baptism within them there would be no need for their bogus claims. They would simply mimic those who truly had this baptism. Alas, they are but claimants nothing more. Their replies show this, just as all Holy Spirit baptism claimants do. They are given the chance to prove their claims but act offended at the suggestion.

Their defense is the same offered by Mormon "elders" who claim the same thing, "If you doubt my claim, you must be ignorant". On this subject, they are brothers.

uh huh considering you yourself haven't given "sufficient credible evidence" to discount their as you put it "claims" how are you any different? so far you are"less credible" than them considering you are going against your own "stipulations" at least they have "shared some evidence" whether bogus or not if you can't "accurately discredit" they're experience claims then you are just someone building a foundation on sand.

 

[hornetguy]

I don't know which is worse... saying that there are no manifestations of the Spirit, such as speaking in tongues, prophetic knowledge, etc... or insisting that if someone does NOT speak in tongues, then they do not have the Spirit in them.

I've seen both of these viewpoints stated in this thread.

One statement limits the Spirit, and the other questions the faith of a believer.

Both are wrong.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

The Holy Spirit isn't a "claim" he is a promise.

 

[joefizz]

Talk about not answering the question. I write: and you answer with:

Though you have not given me the courtesy of an answer I will still answer yours.

No, I can not prove I am a Christian. Actually no one can truly prove their Christianity. This is the point of the OP, that claims of Holy Spirit baptism are not provable. Hence these claims, while they may be true hold no weight in these discussions. Just as claims of the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ are meaningless, so are all claims no matter what degree. Even if there was a "Vicar of Christ" walking the Earth without a valid way to prove this the claim is meaningless.

When a pimple faced 21 year old Mormon "elder" knocks on your door do you accept his claim to have been ordained by God and the Church to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ? Do you accept his insistence that those who ordained him have both raised the dead and healed the sick? Does this even matter in your discussion? The same is true with those who imply that "their" Holy Spirit baptism is proof of God's acceptance of their theology. "I must be thinking right or God would not have baptized me with the Holy Spirit".

See how that works?

Now would you do me the courtesy of answering my question.

"Actually no one can truly prove their Christianity".
fascinating...

 

[joefizz]

I don't know which is worse... saying that there are no manifestations of the Spirit, such as speaking in tongues, prophetic knowledge, etc... or insisting that if someone does NOT speak in tongues, then they do not have the Spirit in them.

I've seen both of these viewpoints stated in this thread.

One statement limits the Spirit, and the other questions the faith of a believer.

Both are wrong.

Well I wouldn't go so far as to say "wrong" more of "inaccurate" both sides have "scriptural based views" it's just they don't quite "match up with scripture" as both think.

 

[joefizz]

I must say the response to these two simple questions is rather revealing. It seems this subject is not one that many wish to pursue. Why?

I suspect that anyone willing to honestly confront this issue will see that claims of Holy Spirit baptism is like beauty, strictly in the eye of the beholder. This is not to say it does not exist , just that claiming to posses it is simply based on heartfelt feelings and not tangible evidence or scriptual reasoning.

Why is this important? Because many who assert they have recieved this great blessing are prone to assume a degree of assurance in their theology and train of thought. After all, God would never baptize anyone who was not correctly following His commands.

Claiming your Holy Spirit baptism is the Holy Spirit baptism holds no weight in an honest discussion on this serious matter.

To those who are suggesting I am attempting to deny the very existence of Holy Spirit baptism, I would suggest they look deep into there own motivations to write such things when I was clearly speaking of claims of Holy Spirit baptisms not the existence of them.

I sincerely believe that I received the gift of the Holy Spirit myself. I was water immersed into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ at 8:15pm on Nov. 28 1984. But I am honest enough to see that if my theology is wrong my gift of the Holy Spirit may be in question. There is no sacrilege in this thinking, just mature and reasonable inquiry.

If that's the case why bother "making a discussion" about it?
If you would rather go on believing with no opposition then why make a thread asking for proof?
You could have just went on believing what you want and been happy.

 

[carl11]

well really dude

if you are a believer, that would apply to you also, right?

wait till the paint is dry before stepping out of the corner you backed youself into

if you disbelievers would only check out your own hearts first instead of trying to judge evryone else

the Bible is not just a spiritual book ...you are sounding rather Gnostic now

Please explain to me how I have backed myself in a corner.

Oh but the Bible is a spiritual book.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jn 4:24 & 6:63

 

[Deade]

I don't know which is worse... saying that there are no manifestations of the Spirit, such as speaking in tongues, prophetic knowledge, etc... or insisting that if someone does NOT speak in tongues, then they do not have the Spirit in them.

I've seen both of these viewpoints stated in this thread.

One statement limits the Spirit, and the other questions the faith of a believer.

Both are wrong.

Well hornetguy, I know you didn't hear me say that anyone had to speak in tongues as proof of salvation, because I don't say that, ever. Far be it from me to cause someone to question their faith. If you or anyone is satisfied with your walk with Christ, I am happy for you and consider you a brother in Christ. I speak in tongues because I sought it. I can only speak from my experience.

 

[DJ2]

uh huh considering you yourself haven't given "sufficient credible evidence" to discount their as you put it "claims" how are you any different? so far you are"less credible" than them considering you are going against your own "stipulations" at least they have "shared some evidence" whether bogus or not if you can't "accurately discredit" they're experience claims then you are just someone building a foundation on sand.

uh huh considering you yourself haven't given "sufficient credible evidence" to discount their as you put it "claims" how are you any different?

You are confused, the burden of proof is on the claimant. He who claims proves. I make no claims, simply ask for the evidence of the claimants. It is not for me to "accurately discredit" the one who claims. You don't seem to be aware of this but you should.

considering you are going against your own "stipulations"

Your use of quotation marks is confusing. I never issued any "stipulations".

The question is rather simple "Are claims of Holy Spirit baptism provable? The only replies so far are about the existence of Holy Spirit baptism, which is not the question. I find the lack of a straight forward answer very telling.

I find your reply fascinating. You simply attempt to turn the table and make the audience responsible for disproving a claim.

A person makes a claim without cause and you accept it. Fascinating. I suspect you accept this claim because you want the claim to be true. I also suspect you would not accept the same claims from the mouths of Mormons.

 

[DJ2]

"Actually no one can truly prove their Christianity".
fascinating...

Can you prove it? I eagerly await your non-answer.

 

[DJ2]

If that's the case why bother "making a discussion" about it?
If you would rather go on believing with no opposition then why make a thread asking for proof?
You could have just went on believing what you want and been happy.

Your use of quotations marks is bizarre. Where did I write "making a discussion"? Are you purposely misquoting are just confused on how to use them?

Why is this discussion needed? Are you truly reading the posts or just glossing over them? The answer was in the post you were replying to.

Why is this important? Because many who assert they have recieved this great blessing are prone to assume a degree of assurance in their theology and train of thought. After all, God would never baptize anyone who was not correctly following His commands.

Claiming your Holy Spirit baptism is the Holy Spirit baptism holds no weight in an honest discussion on this serious matter.