Parables
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To hide spiritual truth from those who were opposed to Him and rejected Him. When people (including Christians) oppose Bible truth or rebel against it, or oppose God and Christ, God prevents them from knowing more spiritual truths. That would be casting pearls before swine.
D
Depleted
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Matt 13:[FONT="]10 Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?”[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]11 And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="]“‘“You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
15 For this people's heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. 17 For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.[/FONT]
and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
15 For this people's heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. 17 For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.[/FONT]
Wow... that leaves a whole lot of room for human judgment. What is your scriptural support for this assertion (bolded)?
Further, how exactly is it that any Christian rightly understands a parable? God's whim, or something more consistent?
Correct. Jesus spoke in plain speech at first, but after being rejected He started speaking in parables.
TITUS 3
9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
Scripture is ALWAYS consistent. It is up to every believer to study the Word diligently to understand the parables (which have also being explained to Christians).
Parables are just a way of enhancing speech in the same manner we can use similes and proverbs- they explain a point further. They were not used to hide anything, in any case, Jesus used to explain them immediately after. But the whole scripture is a God breathed parable that requires God (The Holy spirit) for understanding. That's why Jesus promised that when the comforter comes He will lead us to understanding.
I don't see how that answers my question. If another Christian doesn't agree with "your" (I don't mean you personally) views on a parable, then you write them off as rebellious because "clearly" they don't understand?
You seem to hold to two disparate truths: that one can gain right understanding of parables by study, but that God will prevent you from rightly understanding parables if you are rebellious.
If by study (alone) you can gain right understanding, then your state of submission is irrelevant. If "rebellion" prevents you from understanding, no amount of study will benefit you. How would you reconcile these?
That is simply incorrect and misleading. How can the whole of Scripture be "a God breathed parable" when the primary reason for using parables was to HIDE GOD'S TRUTH from unbelieving people who refuse to listen to what god has to say?
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. (Mt 13:3).
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children." Matt 11:25
2 Cor 4:3-4 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2 Cor 4:3-4 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the
kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. [SUP]13 [/SUP]This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the
kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. [SUP]13 [/SUP]This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
From Matthew 13
The instructions in Titus are very clear. When a person deliberately promotes heresy -- contrary to the Word of God -- he is to be rejected by the local church. Which means that he will not receive further light from God unless he repents. This is not limited to parables, but the entire body of Christian doctrine.
It is a given that a Christian who is submitted to the Word of God and studies diligently will be taught by the Holy Spirit Himself. So the state of submission is extremely relevant. God gives more light to those who gladly embrace His light, but He withholds light from those who oppose Him and reject His Word. That is the essential teaching as to why Christ taught in parables to all and sundry, but then explained their meaning to His disciples only.
Exactly my point, the whole message of the kingdom is hidden to the lost but the parables within the whole message is for expounding on a point.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
someone once said that the parables of Jesus are an earthly story with a heavenly meaning...turns out that parables were actually a common form of teaching in Judaism. If you google that, you come up with plenty of resources that will reveal that Jesus employed a common teaching tool
Jesus actually did leave many people questioning the meaning of His parables although He explained the meaning of them to His disciples. When His disciples asked Him why He would leave people wondering what He meant, He said this:
"Why do You speak to them in parables?" Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive; For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it" Matthew 13: 10-17
you might sum it up by saying that God does not force people into truth and that includes those who say they believe
rejecting what scripture says in favor of personal interpretation or saying this or that is not for me but I will take this, is not the truth God intends for us to know
Jesus actually did leave many people questioning the meaning of His parables although He explained the meaning of them to His disciples. When His disciples asked Him why He would leave people wondering what He meant, He said this:
"Why do You speak to them in parables?" Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive; For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it" Matthew 13: 10-17
you might sum it up by saying that God does not force people into truth and that includes those who say they believe
rejecting what scripture says in favor of personal interpretation or saying this or that is not for me but I will take this, is not the truth God intends for us to know
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So if you know people see not and hear not, you talk to them in parables? You misunderstood Jesus, He doesn;t hide God's truth, He lets it shine for all.
Luke 24:45Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.46And He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
J
joefizz
Guest
Gotta correct you on that one the disciples asked Jesus of the parable of the sower...
Mark Chp.4 10-12(KJV)
And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
And he said unto them,Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God:but unto them that are without,all these things are done in parables:
That seeing they may see,and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted,and their sins should be forgiven them.
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So parables were for "hiding" truth particularly concerning God's kingdom from those who didn't deserve such things at the time according to Jesus but yet at the same time "not hidden".
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
uh
we have the meanings of the parables now though, right? I mean some will always be truly seeking and some will always be frivolous and think it's enough, right?
with me so far?
we do not all have the same experience in understanding and certainly not those whose journey with Christ has only begun
we don't live 2000 + years ago so I don't know what your point is regarding the verse you quoted
probably false teachers and prophets and those who follow them with those over stated itching ears would be the phrase you are thinking of
parables? not so much. the Holy Spirit does not speak to us in parables and the scripture indicates that we have been spoken to plainly...see Hebrews
J
joefizz
Guest
Being (perceived as) "in rebellion" and "deliberately promoting heresy" are not the same thing. Being rejected by the local church does not necessarily preclude further illumination. One may continue to study, learn and so on; and the rejection by the (or, more correct today, 'a') local church doesn't guarantee that the one so rejected is the one in error. I can see that if one is truly a rebel/heretic (such as Bart Ehrman), the Lord may darken his mind or allow it to be darkened. For those who are sincerely seeking to grow, and simply have disagreements over matters of interpretation, I don't see God doing this.
That's why I commented that your initial statement regarding Christians appears to be a matter of human judgment. Using ourselves as hypothetical agents, if "you" don't agree with "my" view on a matter, and therefore "I" consider "you" a heretic, does that actually preclude you from growing and learning? Would "your" view of "me" in turn preclude my learning and growth? No... we are each answerable to the Lord, and He determines who is in rebellion and who isn't. I don't think He is behind every accusation of heresy, nor actively resisting those who don't agree with "my" (or "your") views.
J
joefizz
Guest
Hey,how do you like that?
A thread in bible discussion forum with bible scriptures and actual discussion!
For so long have I waited for this day!
A thread in bible discussion forum with bible scriptures and actual discussion!
For so long have I waited for this day!