Do we decide to be saved?
- Thread starter EarnestQ
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D
But we did have a choice in sin. Remember that time your aunt told you not to do something, but you did it anyway? Wasn't that your choice? Remember that time you could have helped someone but just didn't feel like it? Wasn't that choice? Remember the time you did do what your aunt wanted you to do and did help someone? Wasn't that choice?
I was born left-handed. That doesn't mean I can't do stuff with my right hand. My right hand ended up in a sling for three weeks, and I never noticed how often I need my right hand until then. I could certainly choose to be right handed if I wanted. (Older brother became ambidextrous because he was a lefty who went to Catholic school and got the rap on his hand whenever he did what came natural.) I'm just too lazy to want to be. (Also choice.)
We have choice. We're more inclined to sin because of how we're born, but that doesn't mean we're incapable. If we had no choice, then it's true. God would be unfair. We don't save ourselves for the same reason I'm still left handed. Sin is much easier and worked to our advantage. We hid the the darkness to keep doing the evil.
I was born left-handed. That doesn't mean I can't do stuff with my right hand. My right hand ended up in a sling for three weeks, and I never noticed how often I need my right hand until then. I could certainly choose to be right handed if I wanted. (Older brother became ambidextrous because he was a lefty who went to Catholic school and got the rap on his hand whenever he did what came natural.) I'm just too lazy to want to be. (Also choice.)
We have choice. We're more inclined to sin because of how we're born, but that doesn't mean we're incapable. If we had no choice, then it's true. God would be unfair. We don't save ourselves for the same reason I'm still left handed. Sin is much easier and worked to our advantage. We hid the the darkness to keep doing the evil.
M
I’m thinking it would be interesting to have a thread to see who was saved
via a personal encounter with Christ and for each of us to give testimonies as
to how that came about.
Im sure there will be lots of varying stories. I wonder if some might discover they were
saved by Christ after all when they start to think about it a little more.
via a personal encounter with Christ and for each of us to give testimonies as
to how that came about.
Im sure there will be lots of varying stories. I wonder if some might discover they were
saved by Christ after all when they start to think about it a little more.
D
I've often tried imagining what Mary went through. Imagine having a baby that never cries for attention, a toddler who put his toys away, a young child who was so thoroughly sinless, Joseph could have left his saw on the floor with no danger to the boy, a boy who never came home crying, "They won't let me play with them." It had to be eerie. lol
But think about it. Even as a sinner, didn't you ever do the dishes just to help your aunt? Didn't you ever put something your cousin left around, knowing he was going to need it and not remember where he left it? Didn't you ever help pick up books and papers when another student dropped theirs all over the corridors? Didn't you pick the worst person for a team just to make that person feel good? Even as sinners we had the capacity to do good.
"Totally depraved, not utterly depraved."
Bill and Linda Gates. Never heard mention if they were believers, and yet they started a business specifically to give away billions to causes. Was Mother Teresa saved? I'm pretty sure most of my neighbors aren't saved, but there is always someone checking up on how we're doing when we go out. A busy street, and yet a driver stops traffic to let me cross it. There is good in this world. There is choice. Our sinful natures just tend to drive us in the wrong direction often.
But think about it. Even as a sinner, didn't you ever do the dishes just to help your aunt? Didn't you ever put something your cousin left around, knowing he was going to need it and not remember where he left it? Didn't you ever help pick up books and papers when another student dropped theirs all over the corridors? Didn't you pick the worst person for a team just to make that person feel good? Even as sinners we had the capacity to do good.
"Totally depraved, not utterly depraved."
Bill and Linda Gates. Never heard mention if they were believers, and yet they started a business specifically to give away billions to causes. Was Mother Teresa saved? I'm pretty sure most of my neighbors aren't saved, but there is always someone checking up on how we're doing when we go out. A busy street, and yet a driver stops traffic to let me cross it. There is good in this world. There is choice. Our sinful natures just tend to drive us in the wrong direction often.
E
Spiritual death means separated from God. Stop trying to relate it with Physical death. A spiritualy dead person can still chose A physically dead person can not.
Jesus told the people they were in danger of committing the unpardonable sin. They were in danger because they could still chose to repent
The who bible has a message of repent. In order to repent. you must be able to chose to repent.
The bible also says he who believes is not condemnd, he who does not believe is condemned already. One must be able to chose to believe or reject. or these words are meaningless
"Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated'
Does God Hate esau because he is forcing esau to sell His birthright for a bowl of stew>???
OR does God already Know what esau will choose to do? therefore He blessed Jacob seeing His heart beforehand Knowing His choices beforehand>?
God Knowing the end, and speaking it forth from the beginning, is not saying that He is forcing the people to do good or Bad, God already Knows what they will choose to do. He Knows the end, this does not in any way remove the choice from us. God Knows already we dont. we are Not Like God He is Looking from the Outside of the Big picture and sees it all unfolded and complete already, He Knows us, He Knew esau sold His blessing before He did it.
Just Because God Knows everything beforehand, does not Mean He is forcing it. His will is to destroy Evil and restore creation to its pure state. if He is forcing evil People, to do evil things then He is unjust to Punish them for thier deeds. if Mans will is Not free then every evil thing that Happened every injustice is the will of God and His fault.
Israel was elected too......How did that work out when they Began believing " were chosen and elected God will never turn away" christians who have been a christian 50 Years still have a choice, christians who will become christian 50 Years from now will be presented a choice when they Hear the gospel. God Knows who will choose Jesus, He doesnt force anyone to do so.
we still have to choose Because we arent there yet, God is looking Back on things as if they already Happened.
Does God Hate esau because he is forcing esau to sell His birthright for a bowl of stew>???
OR does God already Know what esau will choose to do? therefore He blessed Jacob seeing His heart beforehand Knowing His choices beforehand>?
God Knowing the end, and speaking it forth from the beginning, is not saying that He is forcing the people to do good or Bad, God already Knows what they will choose to do. He Knows the end, this does not in any way remove the choice from us. God Knows already we dont. we are Not Like God He is Looking from the Outside of the Big picture and sees it all unfolded and complete already, He Knows us, He Knew esau sold His blessing before He did it.
Just Because God Knows everything beforehand, does not Mean He is forcing it. His will is to destroy Evil and restore creation to its pure state. if He is forcing evil People, to do evil things then He is unjust to Punish them for thier deeds. if Mans will is Not free then every evil thing that Happened every injustice is the will of God and His fault.
Israel was elected too......How did that work out when they Began believing " were chosen and elected God will never turn away" christians who have been a christian 50 Years still have a choice, christians who will become christian 50 Years from now will be presented a choice when they Hear the gospel. God Knows who will choose Jesus, He doesnt force anyone to do so.
we still have to choose Because we arent there yet, God is looking Back on things as if they already Happened.
genesis 2 " And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
...And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Choice is given to Man, God tells Him you are free to eat ANY tree in the Garden boith the tree of Life, and the tree of death are before Him. then warns Him of the choice that will lead to death.
deuteronomy 30 " For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12It isnot in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. <<<<<( Pauls quote
)15See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"
again God sets both good and evil before them, explains both choices and says " choose"
God Knows those who will choose Jesus already, But we still and always will Have a choice what children of a Father dont Have a choice? if they are not free.....they are Not children.
Jesus is Life, Our choice to accept the Gift or toss it aside because we prefer to Live our own way
E
Malachi 1:2-3
“I have loved you,” says the Lord.
“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’
Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”
Says the Lord.
“Yet Jacob I have loved;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But Esau I have hated,
God is talking about the nation (edom) not Esau (the child) And the nation (Israel) not the child (Jacob)
“I have loved you,” says the Lord.
“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’
Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”
Says the Lord.
“Yet Jacob I have loved;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But Esau I have hated,
God is talking about the nation (edom) not Esau (the child) And the nation (Israel) not the child (Jacob)
D
Even then, he really would cry, if he needed mom to do something to make it feel better. And yet, when there was nothing else to do that helped, he would stop.
If I don't feel good, I want everyone to hear, "I don't feel good." Some of that is to see if anyone has any ideas on how to feel better. Some of it is just complaining. Complaining isn't loving God fully or loving others fully. It is selfish, thus sin.
I fully believe Jesus cried when he was hungry, tired, thirsty, needed his diapers changed, or sick. BUT he did not cry to get his own way.
What a strange child. lol
If I don't feel good, I want everyone to hear, "I don't feel good." Some of that is to see if anyone has any ideas on how to feel better. Some of it is just complaining. Complaining isn't loving God fully or loving others fully. It is selfish, thus sin.
I fully believe Jesus cried when he was hungry, tired, thirsty, needed his diapers changed, or sick. BUT he did not cry to get his own way.
What a strange child. lol
D
He does not force gifts on people?
I can hear those conversations.
Guy in rescue gear swinging from helicopter over the ocean above a someone faced down: "Yo! You! Down there! Is it okay if I save you? I don't want to interfere with what you're doing, if it's not."
Firefighter in a building ready to fall speaking to the woman clawing him in the corner, "I'm just here to rescue you. If you don't want it. I'll be moving on."
Father to son holding onto a grenade with the pin pulled out, "You know. It's up to you what you want to do now. Would you like me to take that out of your hand, or should I just duck in case you drop it? You're choice!"
How crazy is it to think we were ever in a safe enough situation that we could make our own choice?
I each case, there is a rescuer. Is it a good situation to deny the rescue because the one who needed to be rescued should choose the gift?
Humbug!
I can hear those conversations.
Guy in rescue gear swinging from helicopter over the ocean above a someone faced down: "Yo! You! Down there! Is it okay if I save you? I don't want to interfere with what you're doing, if it's not."
Firefighter in a building ready to fall speaking to the woman clawing him in the corner, "I'm just here to rescue you. If you don't want it. I'll be moving on."
Father to son holding onto a grenade with the pin pulled out, "You know. It's up to you what you want to do now. Would you like me to take that out of your hand, or should I just duck in case you drop it? You're choice!"
How crazy is it to think we were ever in a safe enough situation that we could make our own choice?
I each case, there is a rescuer. Is it a good situation to deny the rescue because the one who needed to be rescued should choose the gift?
Humbug!
