Healing through the Son

LPT · Apr 11, 2018

If God healed 100% of the time that would be amazing but in reality it doesn't work that way. I believe in the power of prayer, I don't think i even have to physically touch anyone for God to do healing because in my eyes it only takes a single heart felt prayer to make the impossible possible. I don't believe this because this is what I have been told or taught I believe this because of how much I believe in him, because even if I myself am weak and powerless he is not.

However where was this healing when Stephanie's dad was in absolute hell physically emotionally and spiritually? He became so bad he was even contemplating suicide he began to doubt he was even a Christian and his health at an all time low and I was in the shower drenched in tears pouring my every fiber into a single prayer begging God to heal her dad, even going so far as to offer my own body to take up his illness and yet no healing occurred. When you are in that state where you go into that secret closet with God and you pour everything into that prayer every bit of your being believing so much in him and him alone that only he could do what we cannot and that all it takes is a single heartfelt prayer and yet even then no healing is to occur and then people go saying how he always heals and how we are listening to lies and not him how we are looking at life's circumstance not Jesus without even knowing what some of us have gone through even with all the faith and belief in him and in our tears and the soul cutting agony that comes with this and yet even in that giving it your all in that one single prayer because you believe regardless of how the situation appears.

I know such people may mean well but do they realize how much it hurts people who gave their all in such things? It's easy to say how he heals 100% until you actually need that healing and are in such pain inside feeling so useless and powerless and no matter how much you believe in him, no matter how much faith you have to offer and no matter how much you pour your entire heart and soul- pouring every tear you shed every bit of pain and agony inside into that prayer offering it to him begging him to heal this person even offering to take the illness upon yourself if that is what takes and yet nothing happens. Even though thaat time is gone by I still remember the pain and the healing that never came not because I didn't have enough faith or because I was listening to lying voices or looking at life's circumstances and not Jesus himself but because it simply was not his will and to say these things that this man is saying to people like me who have gone through such a thing could never understand how arrogant they sound

Indeed not always healed is biblical as well. at the healing pool only one the first one in the pool, when the water was stirred and it didn't matter if 100 others stepped into the pool didn't happen for them they had to wait until the pool was stirred again, process repeated. Clearly they all believed and had faith for they were climbing over each other to be the first one in the pool. the man on mat no one cared about helping him into pool. Jesus only healed one at the pool the man on the mat.

LPT · Apr 11, 2018

3 way healing, in the name of the Father the Son and The Holy Spirit.

the Father healed the woman who touched the garment.
the Son healed the man on the mat.
the Spirit stirred the water and healed the first one in.

joaniemarie · Apr 11, 2018

wolfwint said:

Nope., As I told you so many times through out this thread., you need to read my responses not read into them if you want to know what I believe. And I've already answered your questions many times already.

joaniemarie · Apr 11, 2018

[h=1]Did God Hand Job Over to Satan? (Job 2:6)[/h] Posted on March 15, 2018

God good; Satan bad. That’s deep revelation, yet many don’t know it. They think a good God does bad things and that he sometimes employs the devil to do his dirty work.

Take the subject of sickness, for instance. When we get sick it’s natural to ask, how did this happen? Did I catch a bug? Did I eat something bad? Is God punishing me for some sin?

That last question is nuts, yet many think that’s how God operates. When sickness comes, they figure God sent it. Why am I sick? God must be trying to teach me something. Hallelujah.

It’s absolutely bonkers. Jesus made nobody sick; he healed people, both good and bad. If you must blame someone for your afflictions, blame the devil (see Acts 10:38).
“But didn’t God hand Job over to Satan? Didn’t God give Satan permission to afflict Job with sickness?”
From where does this scandalous notion come? It comes from this scripture:

“Skin for skin!” Satan replied. “A man will give all he has for his own life. But now stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face.” The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.” (Job 2:4-6)

This intriguing passage leads to two questions:
[h=4]
1. Who afflicted Job?[/h]
Not God, but Satan. We know this because the next verse says, “Satan … afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head” (Job 2:7). Satan made Job sick. Satan is not God.

This is kiddy-level theology, yet many grown-ups don’t get it. They stop reading at verse six and conclude that God robbed Job and made him sick. They say, “God gives and takes away.” No he doesn’t. Satan is the thief. He’s also a cunning schemer. His perfect crime is to rob us and have us blame God for our loss.

Look at what Satan dared to say to the Almighty. “Stretch out your hand and strike him.” Did Satan really think he could manipulate the Lord into doing his dirty work? I doubt it. His motive was to deceive us. Satan is the father of lies. He tells us that God is afflicting us and look, there’s a verse in the Bible that seems to suggest it!

“Stretch out your hand and afflict him.” These are not the life-giving words of Jesus. They are the death-dealing words of the devil. If you think God is behind your sickness you are agreeing with Satan. You are empowering a defeated foe.

Sidebar: Go through Job highlighting everything the devil says and you will end up with a demonic theology that is pretty much identical to what many believe about healing.

“Okay, so God didn’t make Job sick, but he did give permission, right?” This leads to our second question.
[h=4]
2. Did God hand Job over to Satan?[/h]
No, no and a thousand times no! Satan is not God’s sheepdog sent to keep us in line. He is a schemer who can only succeed when we fall for his lies.

When the Lord says, “Behold, he is in your power,” he is not giving permission but stating a fact. On account of Adam, “the whole world lies under the power of the evil one” (1 John 5:19). God gave us a good earth, full of life and blessing. But Adam heeded the lies of the devil opening the door to sickness and death.

God did not hand Job over to the devil; he saved his life! Then he blessed him superabundantly. And then he put Job’s story in the Bible so that we might not be unaware of the devil’s schemes.
[h=4]
How not to read the Story of Job[/h]
The devil wants you to think that Job was a blameless man that God struck down for no apparent reason. But the truth is Job was a flawed man who went through tough times – just like the rest of us.

In his trials, Job lost his way. He yielded to the devil’s lies by believing that God was out to get him. This evil thought made Job bitter and suicidal, and for a while Satan seemed to have won the day.

The same thing can happen to us whenever we succumb to the devil’s lies. If you think God is behind your sickness, this lie will make you sicker. If you think God is out to get you, you’ll end up wretched and bitter like Job.

But Job’s story ended well. What Satan meant for evil God used for good because that’s what our heavenly Father does. He saves and redeems us. He intervenes in our life and pours out his favor on us because he loves us and will not let us go quietly into that dark night.

Yet there’s even more to this story than a happy ending. There is a new man. Have you ever noticed how God looked at flawed and whiney Job and called him “a perfect and upright man”? That’s grace. God does not judge us as we are. Instead, he calls out our eternal destiny and invites us to walk in the identity that he provides.

You may be broken, but God calls you whole. You may be a sinner, but God calls you righteous. You may be rejected, but God calls you “Mine.”

So here’s the choice: You can listen to the devil’s lies and think that God is out to get you. Or you can heed the voice of your Father who desires to give you a new name and a new life.

It took Job a while to learn this. But the sooner we get it – the sooner we realize that God is for us and not against us – the sooner we will rise up as conquerors in whatever trial we face.

joaniemarie · Apr 11, 2018

I am so thankful for preachers and teachers who represent Jesus through the Scriptures.

Colossians 1:12-20

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Giving thanks to the Father, Who has qualified and made us fit to share the [SUP][c][/SUP]portion which is the inheritance of the saints (God’s holy people) in the Light.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP][The Father] has delivered and [SUP][d][/SUP]drawn us to Himself out of the control and the dominion of darkness and has transferred us into the kingdom of the Son [SUP][e][/SUP]of His love,
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]In Whom we have our redemption through His blood, [which means] the forgiveness of our sins.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP][Now] He is the [SUP][f][/SUP]exact likeness of the unseen God [the visible representation of the invisible]; He is the Firstborn of all creation.
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]For it was in Him that all things were created, in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen, whether thrones, dominions, rulers, or authorities; all things were created and exist through Him [by His service, intervention] and in and for Him.
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]And He Himself existed before all things, and in Him all things consist (cohere, are held together).
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]He also is the Head of [His] body, the church; seeing He is the Beginning, the Firstborn from among the dead, so that He alone in everything and in every respect might occupy the chief place [stand first and be preeminent].
[SUP]
19 [/SUP]For it has pleased [the Father] that all the divine fullness (the sum total of the divine perfection, powers, and attributes) should dwell in Him [SUP][g][/SUP]permanently.
[SUP]
20 [/SUP]And God purposed that through ([SUP][h][/SUP]by the service, the intervention of) Him [the Son] all things should be completely reconciled [SUP][i][/SUP]back to Himself, whether on earth or in heaven, as through Him, [the Father] made peace by means of the blood of His cross.

joaniemarie · Apr 11, 2018

Another question I had to consider is if a Christian has been taught to not expect Jesus to do as He says in the Bible., to not BE as He IS presented in the Bible.... how can we be confident and secure in Him?

I could not be and was not able to be.... and so I learned instead to depend upon myself. Instead of depending on the merciful gracious Jesus., I was too disappointed that He didn't help me when I needed Him to so I didn't stay put. I didn't stay close to Him. I became a wayward sheep who got caught up in the brush.

But then I cried out to Him after losing it all by my own hand and He heard me and saved me from my mess. He showed me that the way I had been taught about Him was not Biblical. My relationship with Jesus was based on fear and uncertainty. But when He pulled me out of the brush., the Holy Spirit began to give my mind a renewal of who Jesus actually IS and I learned it was NOT what I was taught.

I hope by sharing these different devotionals and writings it will help others who are like I was... afraid of a close relationship with Jesus.... to draw near to Him with a pure heart. No one from my church showed them to me I found them years later.

God has blessed the church with so many preachers and teachers. I know I've only posted a fraction of the millions of our brothers and sisters in Christ that He has equipped and prepared for us. How beautiful are their feet!!!!

Romans 10:13-20
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord [invoking Him as Lord] will be saved.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]But how are people to call upon Him Whom they have not believed [in Whom they have no faith, on Whom they have no reliance]? And how are they to believe in Him [adhere to, trust in, and rely upon Him] of Whom they have never heard? And
how are they to hear without a preacher?
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]And how can men [be expected to] preach unless they are sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of those who bring glad tidings! [How welcome is the coming of those who preach the good news of His good things!]
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]But they have not all heeded the Gospel; for Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed (had faith in) what he has heard from us?
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]So faith comes by hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the preaching [of the message that came from the lips] of Christ (the Messiah Himself).

oldethennew · Apr 11, 2018

PSALM 131:29.
Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate you? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against You?

joaniemarie · Apr 11, 2018

oldethennew said:

Gal.5:13-26
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you, brethren, were [indeed] called to freedom; only [do not let your] freedom be an incentive to your flesh and an opportunity or excuse [for [SUP][d][/SUP]selfishness], but through love you should serve one another.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For the whole Law [concerning human relationships] is [SUP][e][/SUP]complied with in the one precept, You shall love your neighbor as [you do] yourself.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another [in partisan strife], be careful that you [and your whole fellowship] are not consumed by one another.
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]But if you are guided (led) by the [Holy] Spirit, you are not subject to the Law.
[SUP]
19 [/SUP]Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency,
[SUP]
20 [/SUP]Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies),
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]Envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]
22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
[SUP]
23 [/SUP]Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[SUP][f][/SUP]that can bring a charge].
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit [SUP][g][/SUP]we have our life in God, let us go forward [SUP][h][/SUP]walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]
[SUP]
26 [/SUP]Let us not become vainglorious and self-conceited, competitive and challenging and provoking andirritating to one another, envying and being jealous of one another.

wolfwint · Apr 12, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Joanimarie, if in an soccergame one team has 35% baballposstio, then the other team has automatically 65% ballpossetion.
If you claime that physical healing is in the atonement for every believer and it depends on their faith they cam realize a life in health without sickness, then automatically all believers which faces sickness and deases have not enough faith.
If physicall health combined with the salvation for us; then John 3, 16 and other verses must add: .. eternal life and on earth a life in health. But I cant find this in the bible.
So your claim is wrong and it tends to destroy and deceive the faith of others.
Wr can agree ore disagrre with our view about how looks like future, but not about a false teaching

joaniemarie · Apr 12, 2018

Well Wolfnit... Your disagreement with my view on healing is not my problem. You are more than welcome to disagree with me and have your own belief about what healing is. I'm not arguing with you. I'm firm on my belief and if you can't agree to disagree and feel the need to call my belief false teaching than feel free to not visit threads I start.

1ofthem · Apr 12, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Did God Hand Job Over to Satan? (Job 2:6)

Posted on March 15, 2018

God good; Satan bad. That’s deep revelation, yet many don’t know it. They think a good God does bad things and that he sometimes employs the devil to do his dirty work.

Take the subject of sickness, for instance. When we get sick it’s natural to ask, how did this happen? Did I catch a bug? Did I eat something bad? Is God punishing me for some sin?

That last question is nuts, yet many think that’s how God operates. When sickness comes, they figure God sent it. Why am I sick? God must be trying to teach me something. Hallelujah.

It’s absolutely bonkers. Jesus made nobody sick; he healed people, both good and bad. If you must blame someone for your afflictions, blame the devil (see Acts 10:38).
“But didn’t God hand Job over to Satan? Didn’t God give Satan permission to afflict Job with sickness?”
From where does this scandalous notion come? It comes from this scripture:

“Skin for skin!” Satan replied. “A man will give all he has for his own life. But now stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face.” The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.” (Job 2:4-6)

This intriguing passage leads to two questions:

1. Who afflicted Job?

Not God, but Satan. We know this because the next verse says, “Satan … afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head” (Job 2:7). Satan made Job sick. Satan is not God.

This is kiddy-level theology, yet many grown-ups don’t get it. They stop reading at verse six and conclude that God robbed Job and made him sick. They say, “God gives and takes away.” No he doesn’t. Satan is the thief. He’s also a cunning schemer. His perfect crime is to rob us and have us blame God for our loss.

Look at what Satan dared to say to the Almighty. “Stretch out your hand and strike him.” Did Satan really think he could manipulate the Lord into doing his dirty work? I doubt it. His motive was to deceive us. Satan is the father of lies. He tells us that God is afflicting us and look, there’s a verse in the Bible that seems to suggest it!

“Stretch out your hand and afflict him.” These are not the life-giving words of Jesus. They are the death-dealing words of the devil. If you think God is behind your sickness you are agreeing with Satan. You are empowering a defeated foe.

Sidebar: Go through Job highlighting everything the devil says and you will end up with a demonic theology that is pretty much identical to what many believe about healing.

“Okay, so God didn’t make Job sick, but he did give permission, right?” This leads to our second question.

2. Did God hand Job over to Satan?

No, no and a thousand times no! Satan is not God’s sheepdog sent to keep us in line. He is a schemer who can only succeed when we fall for his lies.

When the Lord says, “Behold, he is in your power,” he is not giving permission but stating a fact. On account of Adam, “the whole world lies under the power of the evil one” (1 John 5:19). God gave us a good earth, full of life and blessing. But Adam heeded the lies of the devil opening the door to sickness and death.

God did not hand Job over to the devil; he saved his life! Then he blessed him superabundantly. And then he put Job’s story in the Bible so that we might not be unaware of the devil’s schemes.

How not to read the Story of Job

The devil wants you to think that Job was a blameless man that God struck down for no apparent reason. But the truth is Job was a flawed man who went through tough times – just like the rest of us.

In his trials, Job lost his way. He yielded to the devil’s lies by believing that God was out to get him. This evil thought made Job bitter and suicidal, and for a while Satan seemed to have won the day.

The same thing can happen to us whenever we succumb to the devil’s lies. If you think God is behind your sickness, this lie will make you sicker. If you think God is out to get you, you’ll end up wretched and bitter like Job.

But Job’s story ended well. What Satan meant for evil God used for good because that’s what our heavenly Father does. He saves and redeems us. He intervenes in our life and pours out his favor on us because he loves us and will not let us go quietly into that dark night.

Yet there’s even more to this story than a happy ending. There is a new man. Have you ever noticed how God looked at flawed and whiney Job and called him “a perfect and upright man”? That’s grace. God does not judge us as we are. Instead, he calls out our eternal destiny and invites us to walk in the identity that he provides.

You may be broken, but God calls you whole. You may be a sinner, but God calls you righteous. You may be rejected, but God calls you “Mine.”

So here’s the choice: You can listen to the devil’s lies and think that God is out to get you. Or you can heed the voice of your Father who desires to give you a new name and a new life.

It took Job a while to learn this. But the sooner we get it – the sooner we realize that God is for us and not against us – the sooner we will rise up as conquerors in whatever trial we face.

Blasphemy...That's exactly how the enemy works...He throws a little bit of truth in with his lies to deceive.

God allowed Satan to test Job. Satan didn't just go after Job without permission from God.

Job was a righteous man and through all of his trials he sinned not...He didn't cave into the devil. He remained faithful through it all. No matter what Satan threw at him he still praised God.

As for the last part of it, I have never heard a Christian say they think God is out to get them. We all know that God is for us and not against us and he works all things for our good according to his will. Not our will but his will. Simple concept, but hard to grasp for some, I guess.

There are too many points that need to be dealt with in your post, so really all that needs to be said is that your post totally twisted the word of God just to try to support a false doctrine. People need to get the blinders off and start reading the Word of God for what it is... truth.... and not just try to make it line up with their own personal opinions.

joaniemarie · Apr 12, 2018

1ofthem said:

"Blasphemy" ? Its certainly not blasphemy to say Job was a sinner just like us. Jesus was the one who was tempted on all counts but without sin. Not Job. Job was a sinner just like the rest of us.

If you're on the planet you will deal with lots of differing viewpoints on all kinds of matters. And yes., even the Bible and different viewpoints about Job and Paul's thorn in the flesh and Ananias and Sapphira and miracles, etc... etc... It's our responsibility to read the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to show us how to rightly divide the Word of Truth and how to live our lives here Gal.2:20

Just saying you don't like what another Christian believes and calling it blasphemy doesn't cut it.

wolfwint · Apr 12, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Joaniemarie, solong you come along with false teachings, I give this kind of response. I do not feel that your teaching is wrong. I know it! Would it be a feeling, I would not call your teaching false.

1ofthem · Apr 12, 2018

joaniemarie said:

I agree with this statement: It's our responsibility to read the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to show us how to rightly divide the Word of Truth and how to live our lives here Gal.2:20

As far as going in and trying to twist the Bible around to make it say what you want...You can call that whatever you wan't...But it is plainly not teaching through the Holy Spirit. The Spirit and the word matches up. If the Word says God allowed Satan to tempt Job, then guess what...He did and the Holy Spirit isn't gonna go in a rebuke the Word of God.

As far as Job being sinless all of his life, I never said that. All I know is what the Word of God says and that is Job was a righteous man, God allowed Satan to tempt him, and through his trials he sinned not. He wasn't afflicted and tested due to sin...No, the Word of God says quite the contrary...

Job 1
8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

So word of caution to you, if something is telling anyone that this scripture isn't true...then you can be sure it ain't the Holy Spirit...Just saying...

Stunnedbygrace · Apr 12, 2018

1ofthem said:

I agree with this statement: It's our responsibility to read the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to show us how to rightly divide the Word of Truth and how to live our lives here Gal.2:20

As far as going in and trying to twist the Bible around to make it say what you want...You can call that whatever you wan't...But it is plainly not teaching through the Holy Spirit. The Spirit and the word matches up. If the Word says God allowed Satan to tempt Job, then guess what...He did and the Holy Spirit isn't gonna go in a rebuke the Word of God.

As far as Job being sinless all of his life, I never said that. All I know is what the Word of God says and that is Job was a righteous man, God allowed Satan to tempt him, and through his trials he sinned not. He wasn't afflicted and tested due to sin...No, the Word of God says quite the contrary...

Job 1
8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

So word of caution to you, if something is telling that this scripture isn't true...then you can be sure it ain't the Holy Spirit...Just saying...

Jobs trials were allowed in order to burn off the dross so his faith would come out pure and strong.

1ofthem · Apr 12, 2018

Stunnedbygrace said:

Yes, God will let us go through the fire at times...Doesn't always mean it is because we were sinning. Sometimes it can...but Job was not sinning and causing it. God was proud of Job for his righteousness...The devil wanted to say that he was only righteous because God had blessed him so much...So Job went into the fire and never sinned or faltered through it...no matter what the devil threw at him.

To me the message is simple...Job praised God and loved him through all things. He didn't just love him because all the Good that he was giving him...He still loved him and praised him when times got dark... So Job passed that test...

Undoubting · Apr 12, 2018

Let's remember how Christ Jesus berated his disciples when their unbelief prevented them from casting out demons, walking on water, healing and knowing truly who Jesus was and could do. I know it is a touchy subject when healing doesn't occur, but there is a direct connection with unbelief. I have laid hands on many people but only had a few healed, at least instantly. The reason I haven't had better success was my own unbelief. Those who have high success rates rarely, if ever, doubt the power of Christ in them (see Curry Blake, John G. Lake Ministeries). We have been given the authority of our Savior, Jesus Christ when he sent our Helper.

This all being said, signs and wonders are not meant for all, in my opinion. Meaning, true followers of Christ don't need for signs and wonders for their faith. These miracles are tools to wake people up and point them to the ultimate miracle, Jesus Christ taking our sins as sacrifice and rising again! The Corinthians needed these signs to keep them from going back to their own ways and miracles were abundant in Corinth. In Galatia, however, miracles were much fewer because they didn't need them, if that makes sense?

joaniemarie · Apr 12, 2018

Undoubting said:

Please don't be surprised if what you say is not accepted. Many here on this thread have not been taught about healing in that way and believe it to be heresy as shocking as that is. For many believers healings are few and far between., when in reality healing is happening daily and often to God's people and those around God's people. I believe a bit differently than you because I believe in healing in the atonement. I believe God wants us all to be healed and made whole.

But when you have not been taught that and have been taught to believe it is God who gives you sickness, you cannot look for Jesus to be your Healer because to do so makes you a heretic. As crazy as that sounds it goes on here every day.

The ministries you mention like John G. Lake are called false teachers deceiving and hurting the flock as crazy as that sounds it goes on every day here. Many people here don't understand that all things in our lives now as Christians ARE supernatural because we are now new creations in Christ (un natural to this world) and we walk now by faith not by sight. Yet many do not believe this on this thread. In fact., many here are like I was and rarely see Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit in their day to day lives.

I used to be apposed to these supernatural truths by not any more. I see Him do miracles each day and know He will do even more as I become more intimately acquainted with Jesus and what He has done. He came to make us whole in every way. But when believers don't believe that., the Holy Spirit will not force them. We can present the truth but whether some accept it is up to them.

wolfwint · Apr 12, 2018

Undoubting said:

Hi undoubting, this makes sense. I think many miracles we can see in the mission ministry, where Gods word is preached to people who belongs the devil and worshipping other gods and deeached
As beliver I know I can pray for others, including their healing. If the prayer has only little faith, the Lord sees the heart. I think we cant put God in a certain basket and he has to do what we command him to do. We should pray according his will. Sometimes we dont know his will for an situation ore an Person, even not for our own life. And I agree with you, we must not have sign and wonders for to trust our father. Its the same if you would ask your wife all time: proof me that you love me. Where then is the trust?

joaniemarie · Apr 12, 2018

It is hard for us to overcome our religious teachings and so anything that is different from what we were taught is viewed as "blasphemy and false teaching".

Saying that God "allowed" satan to bring destruction on Job's family and to give him a disease is the same thing as us giving someone "permission" to rape our daughter or give our children a disease.

We would throw people in jail if they did such a thing and yet we ascribe these very same things to God. Where do we get this sense of injustice that we would put people in jail for such atrocities? We get it from the virtue of goodness which is an attribute of God's character.

The human heart will not trust in anyone who would do such atrocious things and yet we say that God "allows" satan to kill our children and to give us diseases.

The belief that everything that happens is from God's is a deadly false belief and all false religions have it. It's fatal paganism.

Ultimately God has the final say and His will shall be manifested when the physical kingdom comes into being. In the meantime - we have the kingdom of God within us as believers in our spirits. This false belief that God "allows" all things is from the enemy to make us believers passive and the enemy just runs over us at will.

There is persecution for the gospel's sake as we give our lives if called on but that is not the same as what happened to Job and his family.

And we see the end of Job - that God gave back to Job 2x timeswhat the enemy had taken from him.

Job said that "he had spoken foolishly about God and uttered things that he didn't know" but now at the end of the book of Job - he says "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear; but now my eye sees You; therefore I retract, and I repent in dust and ashes." Job 42:5-6

Job changed his thinking ( repented ) about what he had previously said and believed about God when He saw Him for who He truly is. We "hear" others speak about what they believe God to be like and thus we say the same things just like Job did.

But like Job - We do the same thing when we see the Father in the life of the Lord Jesus Christ who came to reveal the true heart and will of the Father while He was on this earth. We repent from our beliefs from those that we have heard about the character of God which may not be accurate - we repent to believe what Christ has revealed to us about the true nature of God. Our eyes then see God for who He truly is.
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Amen!! Got this from a friend in my email this morning. Totally agree.

Healing through the Son

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