A Question about Free Will, Hell and how it is all set up.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#142
Jul 3, 2015
56,785
26,640
113
#142
Kevin. God does not force us to accept Him. You admitted in your OP that love is not love if it is forced, but you want God to make it impossible for us to deny Him without violating our free will (I prefer the term self will, but that's another discussion). That is not only illogical, but called wanting to have your cake and eat it too. You cannot have it both ways.

God exists. All of creation attests to His existence. People supress the truth because they do not want to come into the Light. They are in rebellion against God. Some absolutely revel in it. Those who are sincere in seeking out God, are promised to find. He is not far from any of us. The question you say drew you away from God is inherently contradictory and illogical, yet you cannot see it. God makes it possible for us to enter into His kingdom through the covering afforded by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ, but He does not force us. He stands at the door and knocks. It is up to you to let Him in. Thinking your way may be better than His is not a good starting point/foundation. Ditch it.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#143
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#143
Kevin_Bo-Bevin said:
Omnipotence - The quality of having unlimited or very great power. In God's case, it is unlimited power. So, unless God does not have unlimited power, then He can create a circle with corners.
Click to expand...
How would such circle with corners look like? Order of things requires some rules. 2 is 2, not 3.
 
K

Kevin_Bo-Bevin

Member
#144
Apr 14, 2018
99
0
0
#144
graceNpeace said:
You have obviously not read all my posts.
#63 explains why this is the case!
It is NOT because He has any choice in the matter!

If God is God then He has to administer perfect justice - sin CANNOT be overlooked or ignored.
I already told you that God put Jesus Christ on the cross, this Jesus did willingly, to pay the price for our sins.
However, no one can be forced to accept what Jesus Christ did on the cross for them - free will is a reality!

You are trying to imply, or perhaps baldly state, that what God does is unfair and unjust, but this is not the case!
No individual will receive a negative judgement before God and spend an eternity in hell who does not deserve it!

Everyone who spends an eternity in heaven also deserves to spend an eternity in hell, read Romans for the low-down here, but solely because they have accepted, by grace through faith, the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made on their behalf on the cross will not receive the ultimate penalty of spiritual death (eternal separation from God) because Jesus Christ has paid that price!

God would rather have every individual take up his offer of eternal life in Jesus Christ but most refuse the offer...
Somehow you think that God should force them to what they do not want to do - that violates both the character and nature of God as well as basis of our creation as free-will creatures.

As Christians we are free will, loving, children of God, all related by the blood of Jesus Christ NOT inmates of a spiritual prison imprisoned against our will...
Click to expand...
To put it very simply, if you believe that God cannot force someone to do what they do not want to do and not violate their free will. Then you do not believe that God is omnipotent.
 
K

Kevin_Bo-Bevin

Member
#146
Apr 14, 2018
99
0
0
#146
Magenta said:
Kevin. God does not force us to accept Him. You admitted in your OP that love is not love if it is forced, but you want God to make it impossible for us to deny Him without violating our free will (I prefer the term self will, but that's another discussion). That is not only illogical, but called wanting to have your cake and eat it too. You cannot have it both ways.

God exists. All of creation attests to His existence. People supress the truth because they do not want to come into the Light. They are in rebellion against God. Some absolutely revel in it. Those who are sincere in seeking out God, are promised to find. He is not far from any of us. The question you say drew you away from God is inherently contradictory and illogical, yet you cannot see it. God makes it possible for us to enter into His kingdom through the covering afforded by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ, but He does not force us. He stands at the door and knocks. It is up to you to let Him in. Thinking your way may be better than His is not a good starting point/foundation. Ditch it.
Click to expand...
Making it impossible for us to deny Him while not violating our free will is illogical. I can't deny that. But to say that God cannot do it because it is illogical is to contradict God's sovereignty.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#148
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#148
Kevin_Bo-Bevin said:
I do not know how it would look.
Click to expand...
Contradictions are not possible. When we say "circle", we mean that it has no corners. Therefore circle with corners is a nonsense.

To say "God can do that" is unbased and a little silly. Because God is wise and prefers order. God could somehow solve it (like joining several realities or dimensions together), but thats not what we are talking about. We are talking about real contradictions.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#149
Jul 3, 2015
56,785
26,640
113
#149
Kevin_Bo-Bevin said:
Making it impossible for us to deny Him while not violating our free will is illogical. I can't deny that. But to say that God cannot do it because it is illogical is to contradict God's sovereignty.
Click to expand...
You want God to be illogical, not sovereign. He IS sovereign, and logical. His plan stands; yours is not better. Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. You do not fear Him, but hell. It's a start.
 
K

Kevin_Bo-Bevin

Member
#150
Apr 14, 2018
99
0
0
#150
trofimus said:
Contradictions are not possible. When we say "circle", we mean that it has no corners. Therefore circle with corners is a nonsense.

To say "God can do that" is unbased and a little silly. Because God is wise and prefers order.
Click to expand...
To say "God cannot do that" denies His omnipotence. And if He did do it, He could also make it logical because He decides what is and is not logical through His sovereignty over all creation. And you and I would look at the circle with corners that God made and say "Yes, this is logical." Because all this is within God's power.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#151
Jul 3, 2015
56,785
26,640
113
#151
Kevin_Bo-Bevin said:
To say "God cannot do that" denies His omnipotence. And if He did do it, he could also make it logical because He decides what is and is not logical through his sovereignty over all creation. And you and I would look at the circle with corners that God made and say "Yes, this is logical." Because all this is within God's power.
Click to expand...
When you do not know God you should not be trying to tell people what is within His power.
 
K

Kevin_Bo-Bevin

Member
#152
Apr 14, 2018
99
0
0
#152
Magenta said:
You want God to be illogical, not sovereign. He IS sovereign, and logical. His plan stands; yours is not better. Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. You do not fear Him, but hell. It's a start.
Click to expand...
Sending people to Hell when he does not want to and does not have to is not logical.
 
K

Kevin_Bo-Bevin

Member
#156
Apr 14, 2018
99
0
0
#156
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
OK, let's assume GOD has the power to contradict what he is. If he did that he would destroy himself. You have the power to destroy yourself. Do you choose to do that?
Click to expand...
This is getting out of hand. But he could destroy himself while not destroying himself and make himself never exist while also existing for all eternity. That's omnipotence.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#158
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#158
Kevin_Bo-Bevin said:
To say "God cannot do that" denies His omnipotence.
Click to expand...
No, it does not.

When I say that to a logical nonsense, it does not deny His omnipotence, but the legitimacy of your requirement.

Can God lie?
 
K

Kevin_Bo-Bevin

Member
#159
Apr 14, 2018
99
0
0
#159
trofimus said:
No, it does not.

When I say that to a logical nonsense, it does not deny His omnipotence, but the legitimacy of your requirement.

Can God lie?
Click to expand...
God can lie. Though He may choose not to, that does not mean that He can't.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#160
Jul 3, 2015
56,785
26,640
113
#160
Kevin_Bo-Bevin said:
Sending people to Hell when he does not want to and does not have to is not logical.
Click to expand...
Death is the natural end of a natural life. The flesh counts for nothing in God's kingdom: you must be born again of the Spirit of God to enter. That cannot happen when you think you know better than God as you do. You are operating under the pride of life. God resists the proud. Those who refuse His offer of salvation due to their pride of life pass into the second death by the choices they made. Blaming God for your choices is not going to help your case, you know...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.