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Ariel82
Guest
Can't count...4 old testament books...starting in Exodus 19, all of Leviticus, most of Numbers and Deuteronomy lay out laws of the Old covenant...most if you disobey, the sentence is DEATH typically by stoning.
New Covenant and Old Covenant
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I thought we were talking about new covenant vs. old covenant.
The priesthood that was changed, at least according to the scriptures, was the Levitical Priesthood. What does Methuselah have to do with Jer. 31?
You are right I believe. He was called an "an Ephrathite:" or from Ephraim in 1 Samuel 1:1, but his father was Elkanah whose lineage was from Levi.
You are correct, good save.
wrong covenant . Jesus was a fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant. ( through your seed all the tribes of the earth shall be blessed . ). there was no Israel, no priesthood, no 10 Commands, no tabernacle, no temple, .. when this covenant was made.
this is why is so dangerous to isolate Scripture, and build theology around it. context and chronological order are very important.
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Ariel82
Guest
Sometimes I feel like you move the goalposts in our discussions...let me remind you what you said...perhaps you can clarify your beliefs?
My point was there are more than one priesthood and the "New covenant' was prophecied since Genesis 3. The Abrahamic covenant is to Abraham and His Seed, not seeds. The Davidic covenant also is to Jesus our Messiah. They both are part of the promised of the NEW covenant...even though they are spoken of in the Old testament..
.they are not what is referred to as the "old covenant" which is only talking about the covenant at Sinai given through Moses.
My other point was that the people heard of the New covenant through the prophets God sent to speak of the Messiah and the Kingdom He would create. He used people from all tiribes and nations to be His prophets...they didn't have to be of the nation of Israel to speak prophecy.
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Apart from what Law? "Love the Lord your God with all your heart"? "though shall not kill or hate your brother in your heart?
where in the entire Bible is there even one example of God's Righteousness apart from these two laws?
But the "Law of Works", the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial, ceremonial "works of the Law" for atonement of sins, this is another story. The Righteousness of God "APART" from this Law is most certainly revealed in the Law and Prophets. Abraham didn't have this Law, it wasn't "ADDED" until 430 years later.
Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by(the law of) faith without the deeds of the law.(of works)
This Priesthood and the "works" associated with it for the remission of sins is what the Word which became Flesh said He would change in Jer. 31.
The Word which became Flesh is now our High Priest and He is atoning for the sin's of His people with His Blood, not the "works of the LAW" given to the Levite Priests. There is no mention of sin being re-defined. That is man's religious tradition, not God's.
but to add to that, and say ALL of God's instructions were abolished in the New Covenant is not Biblical. This teaching is one that Jesus warned about over and over.
"think not that I have come to destroy the Law and the Prophets" I came not to destroy but to fulfill. Those who preach destroy and fulfill mean the same thing are not right.
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Ariel82
Guest
But now, apart from law, the righteousness of God has been disclosed, and is attested by the law and the prophets, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction, since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God; they are now justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. (Romans 3:21-24)
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It's by faith.
You don't earn your salvation by the keeping of any law.
Salvation is not a wage or reward, it is a gift from God.
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Ariel82
Guest
Jesus gave His laws on the sermon of the Mount for the New covenant...
All the Laws given for the Old covenant are void, they are but shadows pointing to the Truth Jesus revealed in His life and ministry.
Rightly divide God's word and you will see that all of the Old covenant has been abolished...that does not mean lawlessness...it means you need to see what the Spirit teaches through Jesus and not just the Letter of the Sinaitc laws.
All the Laws given for the Old covenant are void, they are but shadows pointing to the Truth Jesus revealed in His life and ministry.
Rightly divide God's word and you will see that all of the Old covenant has been abolished...that does not mean lawlessness...it means you need to see what the Spirit teaches through Jesus and not just the Letter of the Sinaitc laws.
Apart from all law. Law is not righteousness. Righteousness is spirit. Follow the spirit and you will do righteousness apart from law.
There was only one Priesthood given to the Levites through Moses. The Word which became Flesh didn't change the "Abrahamic covenant". He changed the Priesthood that was "ADDED" to the Abrahamic Covenant 430 years later.
Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Ex. 2:23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.
24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.
So wouldn't the Word which became Flesh share what He gave to Abraham with Abraham's Children? "my commandments, my statutes, and my laws".
But because of transgressions of these Laws, God "ADDED" a Priesthood, given specifically to the Levites who didn't exist in Abrahams time.
This is the Covenant (Law) Paul said was ADDED in Gal. 3:19. These are the "works of the Law" for remission of sins that the Jews couldn't let go.
Abraham was justified "apart" from this law. But Abraham wasn't justified apart from all of God's Laws. He was blessed "BECAUSE" he trusted God enough to follow His instructions.
This "Priesthood" is what was changed. there was only one "Levitical Priesthood" before the Messiah.
I haven't moved the goal posts, I think you have. You ask a question and I answer it and you move on to the next and the next and the next.
I believe the scriptures have foretold of Christ's coming from the very beginning. But I don't believe Jesus changed the definition of sin, nor is there any indication in the Bible that Jesus would change the definition of sin. Just the opposite.
Ex. 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
He changed how God's instructions are administered, and how sins are forgiven. I find no evidence that He changed anything else taught in the Law and Prophets.
You preach this yes. Just as you preach Jesus came to abolish God's Laws.
If God's Word is not Righteousness, then it must be unrighteousness. I don't believe this.
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
I'm going with David on this one.
172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
Well no wonder you believe the way that you do. You think the law imputes (or whatever the right word is) its righteousness to you.
I know this is what "Many" who come in His name preach. I have tried to show you what the Bible actually says in this matter. The old Priesthood has been replaced with the new. The Law and the Prophets have not been made void. At least according to the Word which became Flesh.
Jesus points this out in the Sermon on the mount.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
It is simply a Biblical Fact that all the Prophesies regarding the Christ have not yet been fulfilled, and it is also a fact that the same earth Jesus walked on the same earth you and I walk on. I must go with His Word's over the preaching of religious man, especially given all the warning Jesus gave me regarding them.
Jesus is now our High Priest performing the Spiritual intent of the Priesthood given by Moses to the Levites. He has done exactly as He promised in Jer. 31. It is man who preaches He made His Word in the Law and Prophets Void, not God. At least this is my understanding when taking all scriptures into account.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Jer. 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
The Word which became Flesh gave me instructions, shall I refuse them as do others just to be more popular with Mainstream religions?
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Ariel82
Guest
????
Righteousness apart from the law is faith...not something you do.
Following the Spirit will get you proper righteousness which is by the law. "Alien righteousness" apart from the law is by faith of Jesus work on the cross.
This is true. Our rebellion, our hateful rejection of God's Word which He calls Sin, is forgiven, Not by the Levitical Priesthood "Law of works" that Paul is addressing in Romans 3. But by Faith in the Word which became Flesh and the Blood He shed.
But we don't continue to reject His Word's and continue to create our own religious paths and traditions which cause us to transgress God's Commandments.
We did this once and Jesus allowed Himself to be tortured and murdered so we could be forgiven. Sin still exists and we must, with His Help, "rule over it" this time. Isn't that the goal?
God's Law is Spiritual. How can we become Spiritual by rejecting God's Laws. Isn't that why we died in the first place?
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Ariel82
Guest
What do you define as sin?
I define it as disobendience to the Holy spirit and His leading. It's more than a written standard it's a relationship.
I define it as disobendience to the Holy spirit and His leading. It's more than a written standard it's a relationship.