If you had read what was posted that I was answering, you would have seen that I was stating that truth is not in words, but that truth is Jesus Christ. You are arguing to me what I already k ow and believe, which would be evident if you would stop and reflect rather than react to supposed denials of your version of the truth, which is why truth is Jesus, and not something we gain by study or other means. It is why Jesus said of the Sporit that He would take from Him and give to us. Truth is a person, the person Jesus Christ.
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A
Thank you for the explanation VW. There was just a shred of information to go on.... a part of a single verse. No more. We aren't mind readers. Please give your posts enough content so that someone besides yourself will be able to read it and know exactly what you are communicating. Thank you for your cooperation and understanding in the future with providing enough content in your post so that someone reading it will know what you are trying to communicate rather than having to take a little piece of somelthing in a post of yours and try to figure out whatever iks happening in your mind. You will get better results communicating more fully.
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Since this is a thread, and because many posts are in response to a preceding post, I believe that your tone in the above is insulting, without cause. Can you even admit that you might have misunderstood? Well, I am sorry that we have such trouble communicating.
As to the topic of the thread, I deeply believe that the Godhead is made up of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Having said that, I do not see any reason to call one who believes that God is one a heretic. If they have the Spirit, and we act towards them in this way, then it is Christ whom we are so treating. I ask if we cannot just discuss this admittedly important doctrine without calling others heretics. The body of Christ is not served by this wrong. We cannot know just how much hurt is caused by such actions, as we cannot see each heart which reads these words. We can know that when we stand before Jesus, we will know how much hurt we have caused, and we will be surprised at what He judges as sin.
As to the topic of the thread, I deeply believe that the Godhead is made up of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Having said that, I do not see any reason to call one who believes that God is one a heretic. If they have the Spirit, and we act towards them in this way, then it is Christ whom we are so treating. I ask if we cannot just discuss this admittedly important doctrine without calling others heretics. The body of Christ is not served by this wrong. We cannot know just how much hurt is caused by such actions, as we cannot see each heart which reads these words. We can know that when we stand before Jesus, we will know how much hurt we have caused, and we will be surprised at what He judges as sin.
C
wow, still at each others throat over this, wheres the love, no, not the love of self righteousness, His love, like life and eternal death is in the balance - Some here would have done real well at a spanish inquisition,
""heretic - torture, get a confession of their heresy, then burn them"
""but we are just debating scripture"
sure you are?
thats the deception in itself
""heretic - torture, get a confession of their heresy, then burn them"
""but we are just debating scripture"
sure you are?
thats the deception in itself
A
Own up to what VW? That I misunderstood you. Ok, I own up to that and apologize if it helps. But all I had in your post was a fragment that seemed to be siding with Oneness doctrine. Sometimes I find you hard to read. You've made yourself clear since then. Why don't you just let it go now. Peace and God bless you 
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I
Greetings,
The Trinity
God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc., and these are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God. (See also, "Another Look at the Trinity")
Jesus, the Son, is one person with two natures: Divine and Human. This is called the Hypostatic Union. The Holy Spirit is also divine in nature and is self aware, the third person of the Trinity.
There is, though, an apparent separation of some functions among the members of the Godhead. For example, the Father chooses who will be saved (Eph. 1:4); the Son redeems them (Eph. 1:7); and the Holy Spirit seals them, (Eph. 1:13).
A further point of clarification is that God is not one person, the Father, with Jesus as a creation and the Holy Spirit as a force (Jehovah's Witnesses). Neither is He one person who took three consecutive forms, i.e., the Father, became the Son, who became the Holy Spirit. Nor is God the divine nature of the Son (where Jesus had a human nature perceived as the Son and a divine nature perceived as the Father (Oneness theology). Nor is the Trinity an office held by three separate Gods (Mormonism).
The word "person" is used to describe the three members of the Godhead because the word "person" is appropriate. A person is self aware, can speak, love, hate, say "you," "yours," "me," "mine," etc. Each of the three persons in the Trinity demonstrate these qualities.
The chart below should help you to see how the doctrine of the Trinity is systematically derived from Scripture. The list is not exhaustive, only illustrative.
The first step is to establish the biblical doctrine that there is only one God. Then, you find that each of the persons is called God, each creates, each was involved in Jesus' resurrection, each indwells, etc. Therefore, God is one, but the one God is in three simultaneous persons. Please note that the idea of a composite unity is not a foreign concept to the Bible; after all, man and wife are said to be one flesh. The idea of a composite unity of persons is spoken of by God in Genesis (Gen. 2:24).
There is only one God
The first step is to establish how many Gods exist: one! Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5,14,18,21,22; 46:9; 47:8; John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:5-6; Gal. 4:8-9
the heartJer. 17:10Rev. 2:231 Cor. 2:10We belong to John 17:9John 17:6. . .Savior
1 Tim. 1:1; 2:3; 4:102 Tim. 1:10; Titus 1:4; 3:6. . .We serveMatt. 4:10Col. 3:24. . .Believe inJohn 14:1John 14:1. . .Gives joy. . .
John 15:11John 14:7JudgesJohn 8:50John 5:22,30. . .
Therefore, the doctrine of the Trinity is arrived at by looking at the whole of scripture, not in a single verse. It is the doctrine that there is only one God, not three, and that the one God exists in three persons: Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. An analogy would be time. Time is past, present, and future. But, there are not three times, only one.
The Trinity
God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc., and these are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God. (See also, "Another Look at the Trinity")
Jesus, the Son, is one person with two natures: Divine and Human. This is called the Hypostatic Union. The Holy Spirit is also divine in nature and is self aware, the third person of the Trinity.
There is, though, an apparent separation of some functions among the members of the Godhead. For example, the Father chooses who will be saved (Eph. 1:4); the Son redeems them (Eph. 1:7); and the Holy Spirit seals them, (Eph. 1:13).
A further point of clarification is that God is not one person, the Father, with Jesus as a creation and the Holy Spirit as a force (Jehovah's Witnesses). Neither is He one person who took three consecutive forms, i.e., the Father, became the Son, who became the Holy Spirit. Nor is God the divine nature of the Son (where Jesus had a human nature perceived as the Son and a divine nature perceived as the Father (Oneness theology). Nor is the Trinity an office held by three separate Gods (Mormonism).
The word "person" is used to describe the three members of the Godhead because the word "person" is appropriate. A person is self aware, can speak, love, hate, say "you," "yours," "me," "mine," etc. Each of the three persons in the Trinity demonstrate these qualities.
The chart below should help you to see how the doctrine of the Trinity is systematically derived from Scripture. The list is not exhaustive, only illustrative.
The first step is to establish the biblical doctrine that there is only one God. Then, you find that each of the persons is called God, each creates, each was involved in Jesus' resurrection, each indwells, etc. Therefore, God is one, but the one God is in three simultaneous persons. Please note that the idea of a composite unity is not a foreign concept to the Bible; after all, man and wife are said to be one flesh. The idea of a composite unity of persons is spoken of by God in Genesis (Gen. 2:24).
There is only one God
The first step is to establish how many Gods exist: one! Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5,14,18,21,22; 46:9; 47:8; John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:5-6; Gal. 4:8-9
- "I am the LORD, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God," (Isaiah 45:5).
- “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me," (Isaiah 44:6).
the heartJer. 17:10Rev. 2:231 Cor. 2:10We belong to John 17:9John 17:6. . .Savior
1 Tim. 1:1; 2:3; 4:102 Tim. 1:10; Titus 1:4; 3:6. . .We serveMatt. 4:10Col. 3:24. . .Believe inJohn 14:1John 14:1. . .Gives joy. . .
John 15:11John 14:7JudgesJohn 8:50John 5:22,30. . .
Therefore, the doctrine of the Trinity is arrived at by looking at the whole of scripture, not in a single verse. It is the doctrine that there is only one God, not three, and that the one God exists in three persons: Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. An analogy would be time. Time is past, present, and future. But, there are not three times, only one.
I think everybody participating in this discussion understands the difference between trinitarian doctrine and oneness doctrine. We just disagree about what these verses mean. I think we also all know that nobody is about to just up and switch sides in this conversation. This is a good thing, for it is unhealthy to hold your views and understanding so weakly that you are "blown about by every wind of doctrine".
Generally speaking, however, I think there is a substantial difference between trinitarians and oneness other than the obvious doctrinal difference. From what I have seen here, Oneness believers have a more generous view of God's salvation, as we don't usually feel the need to call Trinitarians heretics, although we strongly believe they are BADLY mistaken about the nature and identity of God. We certainly believe that knowing the real nature of God makes a big difference in one's relationship with Him, but we don't think that those who otherwise love the Lord our God and serve Him with their lives will go to destruction because their views are built on a misunderstanding of scripture.
Trinitarians in this conversation, on the other hand, have a MUCH less charitable attitude toward oneness believers. Phil has called quite a few people heretics and said that they are not saved, and David pretty much plainly said that I am not saved because of my beliefs. To the Trinitarian, understanding God's nature correctly is essential for salvation. Among the Trinitarians, I have seen a charitable attitude toward those of a different view only from VW. I think this is highly disappointing.
Generally speaking, however, I think there is a substantial difference between trinitarians and oneness other than the obvious doctrinal difference. From what I have seen here, Oneness believers have a more generous view of God's salvation, as we don't usually feel the need to call Trinitarians heretics, although we strongly believe they are BADLY mistaken about the nature and identity of God. We certainly believe that knowing the real nature of God makes a big difference in one's relationship with Him, but we don't think that those who otherwise love the Lord our God and serve Him with their lives will go to destruction because their views are built on a misunderstanding of scripture.
Trinitarians in this conversation, on the other hand, have a MUCH less charitable attitude toward oneness believers. Phil has called quite a few people heretics and said that they are not saved, and David pretty much plainly said that I am not saved because of my beliefs. To the Trinitarian, understanding God's nature correctly is essential for salvation. Among the Trinitarians, I have seen a charitable attitude toward those of a different view only from VW. I think this is highly disappointing.
Hi Distinctive,
You say you don't need to feel the need to call those who believe God heretics?? And that you (oneness) know and belive the real nature of God.. Thats frighteneing for you are actually denying the true nature of God.
You had better believe that I am not charitable to your heresy, and neither have Christians since this heresy came about. and yes i will call those who believe in oneness heretics, especially deceptors like yourself, who know the truth and bare facedly deny it. you my friend are what has been called since the inception of this heresy a heretic.
Distinctive.. can you show me where I said they were not saved? thank you! The question does have tp be asked, what God are yourself and oneness serving? it certainly is not the God of the Bible. However I had this with VW, and I am also aware that some dont even know.. which makes this worse on you distinctive, because you do know and deny.
What you belive is heresy Distinctive, you can try all you like to get sympathy, and use soft soap talk, but it won't work on me.. you believe in an unbiblical God. Heresy.
So you self pitying post will not take away from the fact that not only do you believe heresy you are willing to deceive others.
For all those wanting to know exactly what distinctive and oneness pentecostals believe read this post and you will know that this came around long after the Apostles and into the 2nd century and was thrown out of the church as heresy. here is the link ::: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/14285-trinity-vs-oneness-15.html#post358409
Blessings
Phil
You say you don't need to feel the need to call those who believe God heretics?? And that you (oneness) know and belive the real nature of God.. Thats frighteneing for you are actually denying the true nature of God.
You had better believe that I am not charitable to your heresy, and neither have Christians since this heresy came about. and yes i will call those who believe in oneness heretics, especially deceptors like yourself, who know the truth and bare facedly deny it. you my friend are what has been called since the inception of this heresy a heretic.
Distinctive.. can you show me where I said they were not saved? thank you! The question does have tp be asked, what God are yourself and oneness serving? it certainly is not the God of the Bible. However I had this with VW, and I am also aware that some dont even know.. which makes this worse on you distinctive, because you do know and deny.
What you belive is heresy Distinctive, you can try all you like to get sympathy, and use soft soap talk, but it won't work on me.. you believe in an unbiblical God. Heresy.
So you self pitying post will not take away from the fact that not only do you believe heresy you are willing to deceive others.
For all those wanting to know exactly what distinctive and oneness pentecostals believe read this post and you will know that this came around long after the Apostles and into the 2nd century and was thrown out of the church as heresy. here is the link ::: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/14285-trinity-vs-oneness-15.html#post358409
Blessings
Phil
A
Why? Because he doesn't agree with you. Perhaps your own heart and beliefs aren't right. This post looks to me like something God would NOT say to Phil. Instead of slinging mud at Phil why not practice what you preach. And it's not a popularity contest. If you have sided with a heretical sect and are misleading others away from the God of the Bible into the error of Oneness modalism, or coenabling the practice, that is very serious. You have the freedom to do it. People have the freedom to do all sorts of things they shouldn't do. But it's wrong.
Pull the log out of your own eye brother.
Pull the log out of your own eye brother.
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Not all trinitarians will be judged for their false understanding of the God head, but those like AOK, and Phil who **** others for not believing as they do will be.
Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
This scripture does not mean do not judge as many interpret it, but it does mean do not judge others for doing something you do or God weill judge your hypocrisy
Romans 2
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
In your condemnation of Oneness believer you are truly only condemning yourselves.
Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
This scripture does not mean do not judge as many interpret it, but it does mean do not judge others for doing something you do or God weill judge your hypocrisy
Romans 2
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
In your condemnation of Oneness believer you are truly only condemning yourselves.
I
Distinctive,
All though I beleave in the trinty, if you will notice by my past post I do not aprove of the one's calling what I see as very loveing Christains heretics, it really got me sick, to the point I started some looking the web in sherach of differant views on this issue, Those oposing you, want you to come to the truth, but also dont want the young Christians trying to learn that are reading these post about False Teach ings, Because of the Essential Doctrines of Christianity
The Bible itself reveals those doctrines that are essential to the Christian faith. They are 1) the Deity of Christ, 2) Salvation by Grace, and 3) Resurrection of Christ, 4) the gospel, and 5) monotheism. These are the doctrines the Bible says are necessary. Though there are many other important doctrines, these five are the ones that are declared by Scripture to be essential. A non-regenerate person will deny one or more of these essential doctrines.
Please note that there are other derivative doctrines of scripture that become necessary also, the Trinity being one. Heresies teach a doctrinal view that deviates from the truth, a false teaching. We are warned against it in Acts 20:29-32 and Phil. 3:2.
Basic Christian Doctrine is the study of the revealed word of God. It is Christian Theology regarding the nature truth, God, Jesus, salvation, ****ation, the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, the Gospel, resurrection, and more.
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires," (2 Tim 4:3 )
The eternal Sonship of Christ. The Divine Word which was with God, did not become the Son at the incarnation. He has always been the Son, not biologically, but positionally. He was the Son to the Father from all eternity and by establishing this, we can disprove the Oneness error. Let’s look at scripture again.
The Father didn’t send the Word who then became the Son upon entering the world at birth. Instead, he sent the Son into the world. In other words, he was already the Son before he was sent into the world. Jesus, speaking of himself, says in (John 5:23) that the Father sent the Son.
In (John 10:36) Jesus rebukes the false teaches and says that the Father "sanctified and sent him into the world." From this we see that the Word made flesh did not become the Son at his incarnation for he was already in that relationship with the Father before he was sent into the world – which is why he says that he, the Son, was sent into the world by the Father.(Heb 1: 1-2) says, "God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world." We see here that God made the world through the Son. But Jesus didn’t live as a man until around 2000 years ago. Therefore, these verses must be referring to the eternal aspect of the Son’s relationship to the Father before creation. This is why it says that the Father made the world through the Son.
Also, consider where Jesus was praying to the Father in (John 17:5), "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." If the Son is the earthly fleshy body of Christ or is somehow the same person as the Father, then how is it that Jesus requests the glory he had with the Father before the world was made? Again, this shows a Father and Son relationship before Jesus’ incarnation since he refers to glory he had with the Father before the world was.
In (1 John 1:2-3) it says, "and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
3 what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, that you also may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ." These verses speak of the present relationship between the Father and the Son as just that, Father and Son, and this is after Christ’s ascension into heaven. We still see the Father and Son relationship even now being clearly taught in Scripture. The designations of the Father and the Son show their relationship to each other, not of the flesh to the spirit, but the Father who is called God and the Son who is called God.
If God is one person, why are we called into fellowship with the Father and with his Son? If God is one person, why did he make the world through the Son? If God is one person, why did Jesus request the glory he had with the Father before the world was made?
Answering these from the oneness perspective cannot make sense, but answering them from the Trinitarian perspective does. We see that within the Trinity, the Holy Spirit is sent by the Father and the Son( John 14:26 and15:26). We see that the Father sent the Son. We see that the Father made the world through the Son, and that we are to have fellowship with the Father and the Son and, according to (2 Cor 13:14) with the Holy Spirit as well.
Conclusion
Let me conclude by saying I believe I have adequately shown that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the three persons in the Godhead. Each are called God; each indwells the believer; each have wills; each speaks; each says you, yours, me, mine; each are self aware; and each are aware of others. The Father and Son relationship existed before creation and is still in existence now. We have the demonstration of the attributes of personhood and the manifestation of the inter-Trinitarian relationship of Father and Son.
This relationship has not changed and will not change because God does not change, as (Mal 3:6) clearly teaches us. God is a Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This is the true and living God.
I dont think that you understand what the Guys are saying with what you beleave and wanting to teach its not them calling you, Its the Bible telling you, These Guys love you and want you to come to the truth!!
" From I Be "
All though I beleave in the trinty, if you will notice by my past post I do not aprove of the one's calling what I see as very loveing Christains heretics, it really got me sick, to the point I started some looking the web in sherach of differant views on this issue, Those oposing you, want you to come to the truth, but also dont want the young Christians trying to learn that are reading these post about False Teach ings, Because of the Essential Doctrines of Christianity
The Bible itself reveals those doctrines that are essential to the Christian faith. They are 1) the Deity of Christ, 2) Salvation by Grace, and 3) Resurrection of Christ, 4) the gospel, and 5) monotheism. These are the doctrines the Bible says are necessary. Though there are many other important doctrines, these five are the ones that are declared by Scripture to be essential. A non-regenerate person will deny one or more of these essential doctrines.
Please note that there are other derivative doctrines of scripture that become necessary also, the Trinity being one. Heresies teach a doctrinal view that deviates from the truth, a false teaching. We are warned against it in Acts 20:29-32 and Phil. 3:2.
Basic Christian Doctrine is the study of the revealed word of God. It is Christian Theology regarding the nature truth, God, Jesus, salvation, ****ation, the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, the Gospel, resurrection, and more.
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires," (2 Tim 4:3 )
The eternal Sonship of Christ. The Divine Word which was with God, did not become the Son at the incarnation. He has always been the Son, not biologically, but positionally. He was the Son to the Father from all eternity and by establishing this, we can disprove the Oneness error. Let’s look at scripture again.
The Father didn’t send the Word who then became the Son upon entering the world at birth. Instead, he sent the Son into the world. In other words, he was already the Son before he was sent into the world. Jesus, speaking of himself, says in (John 5:23) that the Father sent the Son.
In (John 10:36) Jesus rebukes the false teaches and says that the Father "sanctified and sent him into the world." From this we see that the Word made flesh did not become the Son at his incarnation for he was already in that relationship with the Father before he was sent into the world – which is why he says that he, the Son, was sent into the world by the Father.(Heb 1: 1-2) says, "God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world." We see here that God made the world through the Son. But Jesus didn’t live as a man until around 2000 years ago. Therefore, these verses must be referring to the eternal aspect of the Son’s relationship to the Father before creation. This is why it says that the Father made the world through the Son.
Also, consider where Jesus was praying to the Father in (John 17:5), "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." If the Son is the earthly fleshy body of Christ or is somehow the same person as the Father, then how is it that Jesus requests the glory he had with the Father before the world was made? Again, this shows a Father and Son relationship before Jesus’ incarnation since he refers to glory he had with the Father before the world was.
In (1 John 1:2-3) it says, "and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
3 what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, that you also may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ." These verses speak of the present relationship between the Father and the Son as just that, Father and Son, and this is after Christ’s ascension into heaven. We still see the Father and Son relationship even now being clearly taught in Scripture. The designations of the Father and the Son show their relationship to each other, not of the flesh to the spirit, but the Father who is called God and the Son who is called God.
If God is one person, why are we called into fellowship with the Father and with his Son? If God is one person, why did he make the world through the Son? If God is one person, why did Jesus request the glory he had with the Father before the world was made?
Answering these from the oneness perspective cannot make sense, but answering them from the Trinitarian perspective does. We see that within the Trinity, the Holy Spirit is sent by the Father and the Son( John 14:26 and15:26). We see that the Father sent the Son. We see that the Father made the world through the Son, and that we are to have fellowship with the Father and the Son and, according to (2 Cor 13:14) with the Holy Spirit as well.
Conclusion
Let me conclude by saying I believe I have adequately shown that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the three persons in the Godhead. Each are called God; each indwells the believer; each have wills; each speaks; each says you, yours, me, mine; each are self aware; and each are aware of others. The Father and Son relationship existed before creation and is still in existence now. We have the demonstration of the attributes of personhood and the manifestation of the inter-Trinitarian relationship of Father and Son.
This relationship has not changed and will not change because God does not change, as (Mal 3:6) clearly teaches us. God is a Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This is the true and living God.
I dont think that you understand what the Guys are saying with what you beleave and wanting to teach its not them calling you, Its the Bible telling you, These Guys love you and want you to come to the truth!!
" From I Be "