The Logic of Gay Marriage Equality

[AliceOfLegend]

That plays a minor role only. Most authentic Christians understand they have a scriptural God-given responsibility to love these people while resisting their immorality, grab for political power, and the deception/propaganda they are under and expouse. I show love to the homosexuals in my circles but they understand what I believe and why I believe it.

Secular society accepts their lifestyle and sides with them in their fight for the equality of a grossly immoral position to be viewed exactly as moral as a marriage between a man and a woman as Shard (a new believer) argued for. I believe he's representative of the secular position.

So the real reason they suffer from such high rates isn't because of hate and discrimination but rather because of the very immorality they practice and the deception they are under. They have cut themselves off from the moral lawgiver and the fruits of a holy life. That is the reason for the lack of peace, self-control, etc...

But you completely missed the obvious and parroted the deception that isn't the reason. We resist the evil of the evildoer while loving the evildoer. The real problem with the evildoer is their evil. There are spiritual, psychological, and even physical problems to living a life of gross immorality apart from the moral lawgiver (e.g. God)! '

You do know that they are tons of secular people that don't like homosexuals right?

Gays don't just have problems with Christians. There are a lot of people they have to deal with.

Lack of peace? Yeah, well if my parents beat the crap out of me trying to "cure" me, I don't think I'd be very peaceful...Lack of control?? Please elaborate.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

The most important imagery for homosexual acts is the language in Romans 1 of “exchanging” God’s purposes and eventually, after long-suffering and wooing them to let go of their love of the immorality for His holiness, God honored their decision and let go of them and they fell into deception and reprobation.

While references to homosexual acts are limited in Scripture, they become a powerful image for those who in their blindness have given up God’s good gift of healthy sexuality and have exchanged it for something degrading and unnatural and fallen into demonic addictive bondage. Homosexual acts become a symbol in Scripture for violating a basic principle of holiness: mixing that which the Lord declared should be separate.

The language Paul uses (Gk. paradidōmi, ‘hand over’) refers to more than a passive withholding of divine grace on God’s part. Paul thinks, apparently, of a judicial act in which God confirms people in the decision they have made and turns them over to the consequences of it. The voices of Scripture and tradition merge in a consistent condemnation of all homosexual acts (cf. Lv. 18:22; 20:13; Rom. 1:24–27; 1 Cor. 6:9–10; 1 Tim. 1:9–10).

Knowing all this, are you really going to attempt to argue that engaging in regular homosexual behavior as an active "lifestyle" unrepentantly is not the single biggest factor in the personality changes, spiritual and psychological problems these people develop over time?

"Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body." -1 Corinthians 6:18.

If you really believe that the disapproval of the behavior from others is the primary reason rather than the behavior itself, you have been deceived by the devil in that regard imho.

You do know that they are tons of secular people that don't like homosexuals right?

Gays don't just have problems with Christians. There are a lot of people they have to deal with.

Lack of peace? Yeah, well if my parents beat the crap out of me trying to "cure" me, I don't think I'd be very peaceful...Lack of control?? Please elaborate.

 

[alwaysunsure]

I'm not gay but is it really any better in gods eyes for me to go and get drunk in las vegas and marry a man whos name I don't know yeah I know its a sin to be gay but I don't think that god approves of you judging them most of the people that know that are gay had been sexually abused or even physically abused to a point of confusion and distrust sexual abused causes major mental and emotional scars we are better of in a society with gay men and women then pedophiles

 

[Matthew]

The issue is recurring because an ever growing number of people are rejecting the morality of the moral lawgiver (e.g. God) yet enough people still do recognize the morality of the moral lawgiver that a tug-of-war has developed.

Much of our body of laws is based on Judeo-Christian morality. You're flat wrong to deny it. And stating a body of people that engage in immoral activity aren't going away is not a valid justification for declaring their immorality moral or therefore legal though you can do so if you can find the power to do so.

I didn't deny it....I couldn't deny because I didn't even address it.

I don't have to justify it being made legal, I said it's a step in the right direction to break the 'tug of war' while preserving the divinely ensured rights of both parites to exercise free will on this earth so that society as a whole both religious and non-religious can try and deal with it in the future now free of a circular argument that stops progress of any kind being made.

If you had actually read the thread, you would see the Christian position and the logic behind their position IS clearly stated. Since it IS clearly stated,you either did not read all the posts in the thread or you did not discern it afterwards.

Your position appears to be that of a secularist statistical normalist... a position that leads away from God and his morality into deception and finally degeneration as history reveals and exactly as we argued throughout this thread.

I see the apparent logic of each sides individual view is clearly stated but you'll forgive my not agreeing with you sir, I don't find the logic very credible therefore I dont regard it as a logical at all....despite your rather condescending comment I did read the thread prior to posting and my not arriving at your conclusion doesn't mean I didn't.

As for my position, regardless of your further assumption of what I believe I did not state my personal view.....mainly because I was addressing the OP question which was about there being logic to the issue...the OP didn't seem to be asking for my view....so I didn't give it....so maybe when you read a persons post you should keep in mind the original context and not make multiple false assumptions about a persons thoughts on the subject.

In the future I would appreciate your not misrepresenting my views, I know this is a topic that stirs passion but your post while not offensive was wholly innaccurate.

 

[Crypto]

I'm not gay but is it really any better in gods eyes for me to go and get drunk in las vegas and marry a man whos name I don't know yeah I know its a sin to be gay but I don't think that god approves of you judging them most of the people that know that are gay had been sexually abused or even physically abused to a point of confusion and distrust sexual abused causes major mental and emotional scars we are better of in a society with gay men and women then pedophiles

Sin is sin in God's eyes, regardless of how man looks at it is is all sin that the ones who commit will be punished for by an eternity in the lake of fire if they don't come to Christ for forgiveness and repent. We may look at it as more or less severe, but ultimately it's not.

 

[forerunner]

Originally Posted by Shard

Actually everything ive heard at my church is anti-gay marriage. So its not them. And If Jeans, Polos, and Chris Tomlin songs are super-contemporary, you are from a different time period all together.

And the prop 8 argument doesnt really fit credo since it was struck down the other day...for being unconstitutional...you know NOT in agreeance with the original document written by those "christian" founding fathers.

As interpreted by a liberal court that is.

No by a liberal court but by one openly gay, liberal, activist judge. The will of the people struck down by the agenda of one man.

 

[forerunner]

I wonder if the "banned" label is applied also to people who delete their own account. Sometimes this seems to explain events better than someone being kicked off.

No it doesn;t when people delete the own account it normally shows them as a guest

 

[forerunner]

Originally Posted by AliceOfLegend

Do you really not think that the hate and discrimination that the lgbt community goes through most likely one of the reasons they have higher rates of depression, suicide etc? Most homosexuals do not try and influence others to be gay, the ones that do represent them badly.

Letting lgbt people get married is not a special right. They are just asking to be treated as human, which we are.

Actually it would be a special right. We all have the equal right to marry one person of the opposite sex, that is not our family member. If we open the flood gate by changing the meaning of marriage then poligamist would need to be able to marry who they choose and as many as they want,, people would want to marry their sister or brother if they want. Maybe someone would even want to marry their dog or cat. Once we change marriage from one man and one woman were would the line be drawn?

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I would debate the point further with you but I just don't see that it would do any good. You are full of your best thinking, opinions, sense of fairness apart from the moral lawgiver, etc... The fact it looks like nonsense to educated Christian men like myself probably means little to you. You have been heavily indoctrinated in a secular relavatist pluralistic post-modern liberal worldview.

I'll just close with your idea that the state placing homosexual relations on the same footing as God's covenant of marriage between a man and a woman will somehow break the 'tug of war' (according to your logic) is a position that reveals a flawed use of logic [example: ignoring the law of contradiction], a substandard understanding of spiritual warfare (not to mention political warfare), almost zero understanding of the synergy between sociology and personal worldviews, personal behavor and one's spiritual condition and worldview, etc... etc... etc...

Moving on...

I didn't deny it....I couldn't deny because I didn't even address it.

I don't have to justify it being made legal, I said it's a step in the right direction to break the 'tug of war' while preserving the divinely ensured rights of both parites to exercise free will on this earth so that society as a whole both religious and non-religious can try and deal with it in the future now free of a circular argument that stops progress of any kind being made.



I see the apparent logic of each sides individual view is clearly stated but you'll forgive my not agreeing with you sir, I don't find the logic very credible therefore I dont regard it as a logical at all....despite your rather condescending comment I did read the thread prior to posting and my not arriving at your conclusion doesn't mean I didn't.

As for my position, regardless of your further assumption of what I believe I did not state my personal view.....mainly because I was addressing the OP question which was about there being logic to the issue...the OP didn't seem to be asking for my view....so I didn't give it....so maybe when you read a persons post you should keep in mind the original context and not make multiple false assumptions about a persons thoughts on the subject.

In the future I would appreciate your not misrepresenting my views, I know this is a topic that stirs passion but your post while not offensive was wholly innaccurate.

 

[Matthew]

I would debate the point further with you but I just don't see that it would do any good. You are full of your best thinking, opinions, sense of fairness apart from the moral lawgiver, etc... The fact it looks like nonsense to educated Christian men like myself probably means little to you. You have been heavily indoctrinated in a secular relavatist pluralistic post-modern liberal worldview.

I'll just close with your idea that the state placing homosexual relations on the same footing as God's covenant of marriage between a man and a woman will somehow break the 'tug of war' (according to your logic) is a position that reveals a flawed use of logic [example: ignoring the law of contradiction], a substandard understanding of spiritual warfare (not to mention political warfare), almost zero understanding of the synergy between sociology and personal worldviews, personal behavor and one's spiritual condition and worldview, etc... etc... etc...

It was not MY IDEA...it was the old UK governments idea.

Let me say this clear for you before I move on from this as well.....I do not support gay marriage or civil unions in any way at all.

You will find should you choose to read more carefully that this is the first time I have given my own personal opinion on the subject....my first post was simply maiking an observation on how the legal enforcement of civil unions has impacted the issue of legalizing gay marriage within the UK...it wa an OBSERVATION not a statement of my own beliefs.

That you seem unable to grasp this make further discussion pointless.

 

[zone]

Look at the other Gay Marriage thread in the Young Adults forum: http://christianchat.com/christian-young-adults-forum/17930-gay-marriage.html

You have a 16 year old cheering on the homosexual lifestyle.

That's the successful desensitization tactics of the homosexual lobby. Legitimizing their marriage union will only further the impression among kids like that that homosexuality is perfectly normal, acceptable, and a legitimate option for themselves should they choose.

Luke 17:1–2 “Temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin."

unfortunately, they're regurgitating what they see has been ok'ed: BY "THE CHURCH"

check this out, from an OLD meeting of the "National Council of Churches of USA" :


from: inplainsite . org

.................

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]At a news conference at the NCC's governing board meeting on November 10, 1983, Mollenkott claimed there is some evidence that Jesus Christ was really a woman. She cited the research of biologist Edward Kessel, who argued that Jesus was "born in parthenogenesis; that parthenogenetic births are always female; that in some cases, therefore, he would be willing to refer to Jesus as 'she' -- up until the last minute of sex reversal, in which case Jesus remains chromosomally female throughout life, but functions as a normal male and looks like a normal male" (Christian Challenge, August 1984)...[/SIZE][/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]In 1993 Mollenkott published a book entitled Sensuous Spirituality: Out from Fundamentalism (New York: Crossroad), in which she reflected on her rejection of fundamentalism, her lesbian "coming out," and her belief in a female God. Mollenkott concludes that [/SIZE][/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"in a very physical sense we are all gay, we are all lesbian, we are all heterosexual, we are all bisexual--because we are all one" (p. 153). [/SIZE][/FONT]
  

  [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Her view of the kingdom of God on earth is a society in which "lesbian women, bisexual people, and gay men are going to be accepted as first-class citizens in the church and in society as a whole" (p. 153). [See Section on [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Homosexuality[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]][/SIZE][/FONT]​

  
  

  [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]She defines sin as "the absence of trust" (instead of disobedience to God's law) and defines salvation as "being brought back into a trusting relationship by remembering Who We Are: God's children, never actually separated from God's love even though we had imagined we were" (p. 157). [See Pages on [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Sin[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1] and [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Repentance[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]][/SIZE][/FONT]​

  
  

  [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Her view of the new birth is as follows: "In the instant of remembering our true identity, we are at-oned, restored to a trusting relationship with God, with our Selves, with other people, and with the universe" (p. 157). [See Page on [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The New Birth[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]][/SIZE][/FONT]​

  
  

  [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Mollenkott claims that providing mutual sexual pleasure, whether it be homosexual or bisexual or whatever, is one of the most important things in life. "Learning to love ourselves and others (including mutual pleasuring) is the greatest contribution we can make to the creation of a just society. And I am confident that the day will come when most Christian churches will teach a creation-positive method of glorifying God and enjoying Her forever" (p. 158). [/SIZE][/FONT]​

  
  

  [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Mollenkott turns sin and righteousness upside down by claiming that it is the "pleasure haters" (those who believe God made the sexual relationship for heterosexual marriage only) who are the "unjust" (p. 158). She claims that her lesbianism "is simply a good gift, as all sexuality is a good gift" (p. 162). [/SIZE][/FONT]​

  
  

  [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]She admits that when she first started admitting her lesbianism publicly she "felt slightly soiled, as if I needed a good shower," but later she recognized "that the soiled feeling was residual heterosexism" (p. 162). [/SIZE][/FONT]
  
  [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Mollenkott worships a [wo]man-made idol she identifies as "our tender Father and our demanding Mother and then again our loving Friend, faithful Companion, and cosmic Lover" (p. 166). [See Section on Goddess Worship][/SIZE][/FONT]​

.....................

go to ncccusa . org to see what they're up to TODAY.

if your church belongs to these groups (NCC, WCC etc) and you are tithing to them.....well.....???


once again, FOLLOW THE MONEY to see where this stuff is REALLY coming from.
the daughters do what they see their Mother doing.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I went back and read all your posts and I see now where you shared that was the UK system and not your own personal view (though you were defending it to a degree). I simply didn't see the earlier post. Sorry for the confusion. Peace.

It was not MY IDEA...it was the old UK governments idea.

Let me say this clear for you before I move on from this as well.....I do not support gay marriage or civil unions in any way at all.

You will find should you choose to read more carefully that this is the first time I have given my own personal opinion on the subject....my first post was simply maiking an observation on how the legal enforcement of civil unions has impacted the issue of legalizing gay marriage within the UK...it wa an OBSERVATION not a statement of my own beliefs.

That you seem unable to grasp this make further discussion pointless.

 

[Matthew]

I went back and read all your posts and I see now where you shared that was the UK system and not your own personal view (though you were defending it to a degree). I simply didn't see the earlier post. Sorry for the confusion. Peace.

I wasn't attempting to defend the system as I deeply disagree with it....but I can see I maybe could have made that clearer.
I was trying to highlight that while it's wrong it has had an undeniable impact on the issue here and compared to the situation in the USA it is not a source of conflict as much here due to the civil unions.

The reason I think there is a very small benfit to this system is that as a society no-one can make efforts to correct this problem if we are stuck in a cycle of conflict and argument....civil unions are very wrong....but they do bring an end to the conflict which then opens the door to a better solution down the road....and to solve this problem is our ultimate duty as christians....not to argue about it endlessly.

That's not me defending it, but seeing the reality of the situation in my country and recognising that while it's basically perverted it's not 100% bad when looking into the future.

 

[Ricke]

R

Thats because there are a ton of tiny "Bible" churches. The Catholic Church usually builds large churches to serve one large group of people.

The Church of England is in a shat tate of falling away, but the Catholic Church in England is actually quite strong and growing.



Not necessarily true. My church has the largest and most vibrant youth group and population of young people in town, and yes it is Catholic.



Once again thats really not true. I hear so many kids in High School bashing fundamentalist "Bible" churches all the time, and they aren't secular kids most of them are Christian (Baptist in particular).



No offense, but in this situation you really don't know what you're saying. Keep in mind i also live in the Bible Belt.

First off you are trying to lead everyone to beleive that The RCC in Norman, Oklahoma is the biggest Church there? C'Mon Bro...maybe The building is big, but it would be hard to beleive they are the largest denomonal Church there. There are probably close to 40 non-denomonal churches' there that outnumber any RCC if you he total numbers. If we were discussing The Northeast U.S. where I originate, then yes you would be correct Catholics outnumber every other Church, down here in The Deep South they do not, and never will.

Then you Say that many Baptist kids Bash Fundamentalist Churches? Pleaseeee. They must bebacksliders. The Baptist kids here love their churches, their Pastors, and most of their friends go there. The Southern Baptist Church is the largest group of Bible Believing Churches, followed by the others, with The RCC being far down in the middle in numbers.

And yes I do know what I am talking About. But God Bless Anyway...

 

[Ricke]

I did forget The State of Louisiana the RCC is strong over there. In stead of counties, they call them "Parishes" maybe that would be the place for you to move.....just sayin'

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

But of course it is. Now that it is lawful and acceptable, this opens the door for homosexuality to be taught in the classrooms as morally acceptable (again the statistical normality slide into deception followed by degeneration as the moral lawgiver's morals are rejected). This satanic generational indoctrination on something so important to the spiritual condition of people and therefore the spiritual condition of society, of course, will have widesweeping and deep effects on the future in ways you have not yet considered as a deceived generation engages in the behavior in numbers never before seen and launch new struggles toward greater degeneracy. The step is foundational for a statistical normality to eventually replace the morality of the moral lawgiver (e.g. God) and the damage will be great to persons and society. That certainly is 100% bad when looking into the future. By the time you are my age, you will have seen how far it will have slid from your viewpoint today.

it's not 100% bad when looking into the future.

 

[Matthew]

But of course it is. Now that it is lawful and acceptable, this opens the door for homosexuality to be taught in the classrooms as morally acceptable (again the statistical normality slide into deception followed by degeneration as the moral lawgiver's morals are rejected). This satanic generational indoctrination on something so important to the spiritual condition of people and therefore the spiritual condition of society, of course, will have widesweeping and deep effects on the future in ways you have not yet considered as a deceived generation engages in the behavior in numbers never before seen and launch new struggles toward greater degeneracy. The step is foundational for a statistical normality to eventually replace the morality of the moral lawgiver (e.g. God) and the damage will be great to persons and society. That certainly is 100% bad when looking into the future. By the time you are my age, you will have seen how far it will have slid from your viewpoint today.

Well that's something neither of us can know for sure, I agree we are on a very bad path but we can't know how things will unfold in the future although I sure am not confident at this moment in time.

But I don't agree there is no potential for things to improve, many things must change and I've no doubt by the time I reach your age things will be very different, but I won't live with such a cynical outlook as to believe that it will only get worse, even if it looks that way today.

 

[machew]

Alright i see why people think what they do, I just dont think we should be trying to say who people can and cant love. IN the US they at least no the ramifications of what we think about what they are doing. They dont care. And while I will never goes as far as to be an 'activist' and participate in pro-marriage rallies or whatever, I will not vote against it.

I think the major issue is that our current culture doesn't properly teach the significance and the commitment of covenant that it represents. Lots of people get "married" and just repeat the lines the pastor/priest tells them to do without actually knowing that they truly mean it deep down. Sure it easy to agree to something at the time when you are "in love" with the person, but most people don't spend time truly thinking about the ramifications of being fully committed to someone the rest of their life.

The marriage covenant is something that God created and is a Holy institution of covenant between and man and a woman. The fact is that "gay marriage" does not fit with the definition of the institution that God created, and therefore it should not be called marriage. If gay couples want the same rights as married couples from the government then they should create their own term/name for their union and not call it marriage, because it is not marriage.

While I definitely don't agree with the lifestyle and decisions a gay couple has made for themselves, I don't believe that the law should prohibit gay couples from having similar status as marriage from the government. The bigger issue is the issue of deception and of the heart in gay couples. You can create as many laws as you want to prevent them from doing what you find reviling, but all this does is alienate them from what they perceive to be the church. If you don't deal with the issues of their heart then passing a law isn't going to fix anything. Christians need to pray fervently about going with God into the political, corporate, media, education, and entertainment spheres of influence to start bringing Godly values back into our pop culture. For too long we have sat in our pews within the four walls and allowed things to just happen, attributing it to the will of God; when truly the will of God was for us to rise up and ambassadors and mentors for our society.

When the church learns how to show the same love and honor Jesus did to those around them, regardless of what they believe, and to get on their face to pray for God to give them favor with those who are in influence, we will finally be in a position to transform this world and bring God's Kingdom into everywhere that we go. The Bible calls us ambassadors of a different Kingdom, and that every place we step becomes our inheritance. So why isn't it happening? Wake up church! Stop complaining and humble yourself. Get on your faces before God until He gives you power from on high to do the job that Jesus sent us to do. Jesus took back the keys of authority over the Earth back from satan and gave them to us. God's plan is to partner with us through relationship with Him to manifest His power and His Kingdom. God doesn't do most things Himself(without us) because He would have to deal with the sin issue and wipe out anyone who hasn't repented. CS Lewis said it best "When the Author steps on the stage, the play is over!" He is patient and desires that none should perish, but that all should come into repentance. But God has chosen to give us a season where He wants to partner with us to truly change the outcome of how things happen on the Earth. Some may say this violates the sovereignty of God, but it doesn't when you consider that God wrote each and every one of us into His sovereign plan. What kind of world are we going to leave our children? Are we going to pray fervently on our faces for God to come and touch us until we become vessels He can use to shape history? The decision truly is and always has been ours.

Blessings,

Machew

 

[machew]

A verse to meditate on that relates to what I said above:

Proverbs 13:22(NASB)(emphasis mine)

22A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, And the wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous.

The Hebrew word for good in this verse is the same word for good that was used to describe what God did during the creation story in Genesis. (Genesis 1:4, 1:10, 1:12. 1:18) So what does this mean, you could say that the verse says: A man with the righteousness and goodness of God leaves an inheritance for his children's children. When this verse talks about inheritance it is not only talking about monetary inheritance, but the inheritance of values, culture, learned lessons from mistakes, spiritual authority, wisdom that you have learned from God, spiritual inheritance, etc etc....

What kind of inheritance do you want to leave your children?
What kind of world do you want to leave for your children to live in?

People of great character in faith like Martin Luther King Jr. had a dream that he could change the world he lived if he partnered with God and did it God's way. Despite the many threats on him and his family's life he made a true impact in the United States that is still effecting how we live today. Even his assassination wasn't able to stop what he and God had started. God has created each and every one of us to live a life of significance and impact on this world. You are not as powerless to do something as you think you are. God wants to use all of you to impact this planet. The idea that only some people have a significant call is a lie from the pit of hell to keep the church from rising up to its destiny. Will you accept the call and destiny He has put on your life?

Blessings,

Machew

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

We can know how things will unfold in the future for Western societies if Western societies continue on their path of discarding the morals and moral lawgiver for their statistical normality. Special revelation (scripture) and general revelation (nature and history) show almost exactly what we can expect.

This doesn't mean people, including homosexuals, aren't being saved, spiritually reborn, and set on new paths of the moral lawgiver's rightousness because PRAISE THE LORD they are! And that is good news. But the road is narrow and most continue toward greater deception, greater degeneracy, and greater condemnation.

What would change things around? REVIVAL! Massive Western society shaking REVIVAL! That would reset everything . Complete repentance enmasse back into the loving, gracious, and forgiving arms of God (e.g. the moral lawgiver) would reset everything. Pray for revival.

Well that's something neither of us can know for sure, I agree we are on a very bad path but we can't know how things will unfold in the future although I sure am not confident at this moment in time.

But I don't agree there is no potential for things to improve, many things must change and I've no doubt by the time I reach your age things will be very different, but I won't live with such a cynical outlook as to believe that it will only get worse, even if it looks that way today.