Calvinism vs. Arminianism?

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notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#41
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#41
PennEd said:
If I have the ability to choose not to sin, what do I need Jesus for? I could just not sin.
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Because you cannot atone for your sin. You need Gods grace and God has given you enough light to make the choice. Likely you sinned before you knew of Jesus. Likely you have sinned since you know the Lord. You still cannot choose not to sin only to endeavor to sin less.

Even Jesus pointed to evil men being able to give good gifts.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
calibob

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
#42
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,516
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#42
GRACE, we were saved by grace I say, before the crucifiction was GRACE, before we repented was GRACE. We didn't deserve and we can't earn it. GRACE before all else!
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#45
#45
Danny1988 said:
Yes, you can include John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so THE ELECT who believe in Him shall not perish but have ever lasting life" :)
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and that is how a Calvinist proves that they are right

they just change whatever they want to help them sleep at night

it's not funny

it's actually serious
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#47
#47
Danny1988 said:
It doesn't say that to you because you don't interpret it that way. It all comes down to how we interpret the texts, they should always be taken in the context of the whole counsel of God
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no the Bible is not open to interpretation at the whim of either 1,000,000 people or just you

if that were so, then anyone could believe anything and it would still be correct

come to think of it, it appears to be what you are doing

you can't make this stuff up
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#48
#48
Danny1988 said:
The only difference between Calvinists and Arminianists is one believes God is sovereign over all things including who will be saved and who won't and the others believe He is sovereign over all things except who is to be saved.

Most of the scriptures support the belief that God is sovereign over every single thing and nothing can happen unless He wills it to happen.
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What about the rest of the church? You keep trying to make it a Calvin vs Armenian issue. No wonder you can not find what others are saying, you have a predetermined what everyone believes before they even tell you, Thats a huge mistake man.

and ps. That is not the only difference between those two groups. Not even close.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#49
#49
Danny1988 said:
Yes, you can include John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so THE ELECT who believe in Him shall not perish but have ever lasting life" :)
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Please show me this in the greek. something tells me you have a tainted bible that adds words to scripture. John warned us against adding words..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#50
#50
Danny1988 said:
Not exactly, but that's how we interpret it
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so whosoever means elect. In what greek dictionary can we find this? shoot, in what english disctionary can we find it in?
 
Musicus

Musicus

Senior Member
#51
Oct 26, 2017
314
39
28
#51
Danny1988 said:
Yes, you can include John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so THE ELECT who believe in Him shall not perish but have ever lasting life" :)
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So what about THE ELECT who don't believe in Him? And what about those that are not THE ELECT who DO believe in Him?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#53
#53
Danny1988 said:
We believe, "whosoever" is calling out the elect. It's a call for them to come out of the world
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Then it would say "the elect" or "whomever God has chosen" or something like that, Not whosoever, meaning anyone who does no matter who they are.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#55
#55
shrume said:
Individuals are not predestined. The church was predestined. Anyone can become a member of the church by choosing to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.


Universalism (which I gather is what you believe) is not true. People make their choice in this life. Once this life is over, there will be no second chance to "get it right".

Heb 9:
27) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
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I disagree, induviduals are predestined, as well as the church is predestined. It is all based on foreknowledge, that is the key.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#56
#56
Danny1988 said:
It doesn't say that to you because you don't interpret it that way. It all comes down to how we interpret the texts, they should always be taken in the context of the whole counsel of God
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You do not change the meaning of words to suit your doctrinal position. That has been the error of th eroman church and many churches for a few thousand years now.

The whole councel of God does not change the fact that whosoever means just that, Whosoever. period.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#57
#57
Danny1988 said:
Whosoever can mean one single person or it can mean the whole world.
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ie, It means whoever believes, that is in the world (God loved the world, that whoever in the world) , Nothing more, nothing less. Elect is not in context and can not be used to change the meaning of the word.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#58
#58
PennEd said:
This much is certain. The 'whosoever' ARE the elect from God's point of view, as He knows the end from the beginning.
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That may be true, But we can;t assume that is what the passage says, because if that is what Jesus wanted us to think, he would have told us that. Remember, Jesus is trying to explain being born again to nicodemus, So he was bringing his word to nicodemus level.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#59
#59
PennEd said:
If I have the ability to choose not to sin, what do I need Jesus for? I could just not sin.
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no one has the ability to not sin, so this point is pretty mute (even believers technically do not have this ability) and even if you could, you still have all your past sin and adams sin to take care of. Which you can not do yourself. so you would still need christ.
 
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