Christ is God

FlyingDove · Jan 13, 2018

12 Verses 6 different writers say Jesus is God

ISAIAH 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name "shall" be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
(THE CHILD/SON TO COME, ("SHALL" FUTURE TENSE)! BE CALLED THE MIGHTY GOD & EVERLASTING FATHER)

Micah 5:2 "Bethlehem" you are little to be among the "clans of Judah" yet out of you "shall" One come forth Who is to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth have been from of old, ""from ancient days, eternity'''''
(THE LION FROM THE TRIBE OF JUDAH, WHO WAS BORN IN BETHLEHEM ""JESUS"" CAME FROM ETERNITY & HAS NO BEGINING)

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
(A VIRGIN ""SHALL"" FUTURE TENSE CONCEIVE)! IMMANUEL = GOD WITH US)

Matthew 1:23 Behold, the virgin ""shall"" conceive & bear a son, & they shall call his name Immanuel (meaning, God with us)
(IMMANUEL/JESUS = GOD WITH US)

Romans 9:5 To them belong the patriarchs, & from their race, according to the flesh, is the ""Christ who is God over all"", blessed forever
(CHRIST ""JESUS WHO IS GOD"" OVER ALL)

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, & the Holy Ghost: "these three are one"
(THE FATHER, THE WORD "JESUS" & THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE THE ONE GOD)

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, "the Almighty"
(JESUS CLEARLY STATES: HE IS A-Z "THE ALMIGHTY")

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, & the Word was with God, & ""the Word was God""
(THE WORD ""JESUS"" WAS GOD)

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
(JESUS IS: THOMAS, LORD AND GOD)

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
(GOD/CHRIST WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH. Also see JOHN 1:14)

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; hho gave himself for us,
(OUR GOD & SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST)

John 5: 18 "the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him" because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father: "making himself equal with God"
(CHRIST, EQUAL WITH GOD)

Luke 5:17 (B) that there were Pharisees and "doctors of the law" sitting by. Also see Luke 11:45,46 & 52

These Pharisee's that are asking the questions & made this statement: "he's making himself equal with God".
(Were "Doctors of the Biblical Laws").

They knew without a doubt, Jesus was claiming/saying that He is God. Jesus wrote the Laws. Therefore, Jesus knew the Laws better then anyone.

Jesus statement of being diety. Was by Law considered to be blasphemy. So, they wanted to KILL Him!

Simple conclusion: JESUS IS GOD!

MattforJesus · Jan 13, 2018

gdyloves said:

Good for you,for there is not 3 persons in one God,but one God,the Father.

In the Old Testament God said is there a God beside Me,yea,there is no God,I know not any,and before Me there was no God formed before Me,and there shall be no God formed after Me,I am the LORD,and beside Me there is no Savior.

In the New Testament it says to us there is but one God,the Father,and another place there is one God,the Father,who is above all,and through all,and in you all.

The Bible only attributes the Father as being God.

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,God and man in harmony.

According to Jesus being God He has no beginning,which the Old Testament says that when the Savior comes He will be from everlasting,which means no beginning,and the Son shall be called the mighty God,and everlasting Father.

According to Jesus being a human He has a beginning which when the fulness of the time was come God sent forth His Son made of a woman,made under the law,and He was made according to the flesh.

There is only one God,who is a Holy Spirit.Father is a title for God,and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus is the visible relationship to the saints,and the way God provided salvation for He laid down His life for us,and purchased the Church with His own blood.

The Son shall be called the everlasting Father,and Jesus said if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father.The words that I speak are not My own but the Father that dwells in Me,He does the works.

God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance,which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world,and all the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Let us make man in our image.

Old Testament,Adam made in the image of God.New Testament,Adam made in the figure of Him to come,Christ.The image of God is the image of Christ.

God had the plan to come in the future in flesh before He laid down the foundation of the world,and made Adam in the image that He would appear in the future,an innocent nature in flesh.

The man Christ Jesus can exist in the beginning before He is born for He is a plan of God to be born in the future,so it is the same as if He exists in the beginning.

Let us,God and the man Christ Jesus,make man in our image that we will appear in the future,who is God manifest in flesh,for Adam was made in that image that God would appear in the future,so the let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus for He is part of that image.

In the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God,and the Word was God.
All things were made by Him,and without Him was not anything made that was made.

In the beginning was the plan of God to come in the future in flesh,and that plan was with God before He laid down the foundation of the world,and that plan was God manifest in the flesh.
All things were made with the plan of God to come in flesh,and without that plan of God coming in flesh,He would of not created anything that He created,for Jesus is the reason creation is successful,forgiveness of sins,and eternal life.

The man Christ Jesus is the first born of all creatures,and the beginning of the creation of God,although He was not born until 4000 years later,for He was the first plan of God before He began creation,so it is the same as if the man Christ Jesus,the Son,existed in the beginning.

The name of the Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,is Jesus.

In the Old Testament God said He would reveal a new name to the Jews,and speak to them,which Jesus said if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father,and the words that I speak are not My own,but the Father that dwells in Me,He does the works.

Jesus said I have come in My Father's name.

The prophet Agur asked the question,what is His name,and what is His Son's name,if you can tell,which the Father and Son will share the same name.

Jesus is the Father's name.

The Son inherited the name from the Father,and since the man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God,it is the name of the Father,and Son.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Luke says baptism is to be done in Jesus' name,and in the book of acts Jews,Gentiles,and Samaritans,were all baptized in Jesus' name.

All we do in word or deed do in Jesus' name.

There is no other name whereby we are saved but the name Jesus.

Jesus is the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Spirit.

Jesus at the right hand of God.

God's right hand represents power,wisdom,and salvation.

Jesus said all power is given to Me in heaven and earth.

There is one God,and one mediator between God and men,the man Christ Jesus.

There is one throne in heaven,and one who sits on that throne,which is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

David said the LORD said unto my Lord,sit at My right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.

For the Son must reign until His enemies are conquered,and when He shall have put down all rule,and power,and authority,then the Son shall submit to the Father,that God may be all in all.

The Son at the right hand of God is a temporary role,and the Son does not sit next to the Father on a throne of His own,for if you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father,and the Son shall be called the everlasting Father according to His deity,for there is only one God,the Father.

The man Christ Jesus is our Savior,for only a sinless man can reconcile mankind to God,but no man is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh,which means God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus,and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God,for God cannot be separated.

God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power,be at His right hand,for He is the mediator between God and men,until His enemies are conquered,and then the man Christ Jesus will stop exercising the throne of power,stop being at the right hand,and submit to the Father that God may be all in all.

God is ruling through the man Christ Jesus,His own personal human body,for the sake of the saints.

The only person we will see in heaven is Jesus,and if you have seen Jesus then you have seen the Father,for He is a visible image of the Father.

There is not a trinity,but one God,the Father,who is above all,and through all,and in you all.

The Bible plainly states that there is one God,and they cannot deny that,and it does not say 3 persons in one God,and not 3 Gods.

They say that there is 3 persons in one God,and then say God the Father,God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit,saying there is 3 Gods.

Is there 3 persons in one God,or is there 3 Gods.

There is one God,who is a Holy Spirit.Father is a title for God,and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.The distinction between Father and Son is not God to God,but God to humanity,which is why the Father is greater than the Son,and Jesus said to Mary,My God,and your God,and My Father,and your Father,for He was speaking according to His humanity.

Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,are not 3 persons in one God,but the 3 relationships God has with His children designated by titles.

Father-Creator,and parent of the saints,and Father of spirits.

Son-God's visible relationship to the saints,the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus,and the way God provided salvation by laying down His human body.

Holy Spirit-God's invisible relationship to the saints,and God working among us by His Spirit.

There is only one God,the Father,and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.Holy Spirit describes the nature of God that He is a Spirit and Holy.

Waggles · Jan 13, 2018

There is no doubt that Yahweh or Jehovah of the OT is
none other than Jesus.

5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed
in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning,
and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished
brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
Daniel 10:

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man,
clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a
golden girdle.
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow;
and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace;
and his voice as the sound of many waters.
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went
a sharp two edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shines
in his strength.
Revelation 1:

star · Jan 14, 2018

I believe in God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Three separate, yet one God.

garee · Jan 15, 2018

Lately I have been looking at using two attributes to describe our one God who is not a man as us. (not a salvation issue)

Two as if they where one is the image of mankind made after the likeness of one God . Takes two to create one .

Three to some could be considered a crowd.

The us in the verse below seems to support the two attributes (God is not a man ).Male and female as two creations he made them, not created in their image after their likeness .

Two kinds of creations.One after the likeness of two the other no likeness.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.Gen 1:26

Grandpa · Jan 15, 2018

Matthew 11:28 [FONT=&quot]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

I suppose you would have to know what you are labouring at and what the rest is that is given. But only God Himself can give this Rest. As attested to in Ezekiel 36

Ezekiel 36:27 [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

And then combine it with this and it should be pretty clear;

John 15:5 [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]for without me ye can do nothing[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

posthuman · Jul 14, 2018

I and the Father are One

(John 10:10)

And the LORD shall be king over all the earth:

in that day shall there be one LORD, His name One.

(Zechariah 14:9)

jameen · Jul 14, 2018

posthuman said:

I believe that Jesus is originally God but I want to post these things in order to test my Bible based groups members' knowledge to see how they will refute the reasons why some Christians are having difficulty to accept that Jesus is also God:

1) Because if Jesus is God then it will become 2 Gods and God is only one

2) Jesus said that Father is the only true God to be known to men in John 17:3

3) God is not man in Hosea 11:9

4) Jesus does not know the hour and day of Judgment Day like the Father in Matthew

5) It is silly for a God to submit to another God in 1 Cor. 15:27-28

6) God does not die but Jesus died when he was crucified

7) God is a spirit but Jesus has flesh and blood

JChesney · Jul 15, 2018

FlyingDove said:

Thank you for the very interesting post! But I would like to say some of the arguments of opponents of the deity of Jesus (that Jesus is the same God as God the Father). The Messianic Jews and Jehovah's Witnesses have views on the pre-existence of the Messiah in an angelomorphic form. The development of ideas about the altarpiece angel of God near to God, the transformation of these ideas in the context of the Judaic Messianism (represented in the Jewish apocrypha and midrash) motivated from heavenly "Son of Man" from the book of Daniel (Dan 7:13 in connection with Mic 5:2) were led to the emergence of the concept of the heavenly Messiah's pre-existence in Jewish literature even at the pre-Christian period. Of course, in the primitive Christian environment of the first century, these messianic ideas were borrowed and developed in relation to Jesus Christ, which we observe in the epistles of Paul, Revelation, and in other writings of the John's community.
As in the ideas of Philo of Alexandria there is a true God, and there is the Logos, which in his view is not the true God (among other things, Philo called the Logos the "god" and "son of God"). This Logos in writtings of Philo were committed a theophanical role in the OT stories, such things are encountered with the Memra of God in the targumical tradition.

FlyingDove said:

This is one of the possible variant of translation in Is 7:14, becouse the word הָרָה it can be both an adjective and a verb (the simple paradigm of the verb - QAL).

FlyingDove said:

it has already been discussed here controversial punctuation

FlyingDove said:

here is very doubtful authenticity

FlyingDove said:

here the ancient manuscripts instead of the word "God" (θεος) are contain a pronoun "ος" (masculine gender) and "ο" (neuter gender, D, 06), in the modern reconstruction of the text, preference is given to reading "ος".
By the way, medieval English translations from the Vulgate are connected here with reading where the pronoun have the neuter gender. Wycleffe Bible: "And openly it is a great sacrament of piety, that thing that was showed in (the) flesh, it is justified in (the) Spirit, it appeared to angels, it is preached to heathen men, it is believed in the world, it is taken up into glory". Douay-Rheims Bible (where the pronoun refers to the word "mystery" neuter in Greek): "And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, which was manifested in the flesh, was justified in the spirit, appeared unto angels, hath been preached unto the Gentiles, is believed in the world, is taken up in glory."

FlyingDove said:

"great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" it is ambiguously, becouse it can mean also "great God (=Father) and our Saviour..."

trofimus · Jul 15, 2018

JChesney said:

What arguments can you find against these:

"For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder, and his name is called the messenger of great counsel, wonderful counsellor, mighty God (Θεὸς ἰσχυρός), potentate, prince of peace, father of the age to come."
Is 9:6
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Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God! (ὁ Θεός μου)”
John 20:28
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“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος)
John 1:1
----
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (ἴσον τῷ Θεῷ)
J 5:18 (notice that this is a commentary by the apostle, not by Jews)
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"Christ Jesus, who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage." (ἐν μορφῇ Θεοῦ, ἴσα Θεῷ)
Phil 2:6

JChesney · Jul 15, 2018

trofimus said:

I think in this case the opponents of the deity of Christ can turn to the Jewish original, where אֵל גִּבּוֹר also can be translated as "strength, power". As did Aquila, Symmachus and Theodotion in the second century: https://archive.org/stream/origenishexaplor02origuoft#page/448/mode/2up
(for Θεὸς ἰσχυρός they offered "ἰσχυρὸς δυνατός")
But it seems to me that the defenders of the deity of Christ here can resort to the Targum of Jonathan which reflects the ideology of the Palestinian Jews of the first century relative to the place in question:
שְמֵיה מִן קְֹדָם מַפלִי עֵיצָא אְלָהָא גִיבָרָא קַייָם עָלְמַיָא מְשִיחָא דִשלָמָא יִסגֵי עְלַנָא בְיוֹמוֹהִי
- "His name is called from eternity Wonderfull the Mighty God who liveth to eternity, The Messiah, whose peace shall be great upon us in His days." (Translated by Pauli, 1871) https://books.google.fr/books?id=_boCAAAAQAAJ&dq
however, and in this case there can be talk about the relativity of the word "God".

on the rest I will gather a little later.

trofimus · Jul 15, 2018

JChesney said:

Thanks for the source, it was interesting to see it.

1. What do you mean by Jewish original?

2. Aquila, Symmachus and Theodotion are later translations, LXX is much older and therefore more close to original.

3. Also, consider that Christians saw for example Aquila as somebody who is trying to cover messianic prophecies. Christ came into the "Septuagint" era. His timing is perfect. Most of later translations of Hebrew into Greek by Jews was a try to make Christianity stop. Why should a Christian trust their works over Septuagint that was used by apostles?

garee · Jul 15, 2018

He was eternal God as the Son of God without a beginning. And not God as the Son of man who did have a beginning . The Son of man received no worship in respect to the temporal outward form . When called good master knowing we can serve only one he gave the glory to the unseen father only God is good .Good decripes the unseen work. And the Son of man instructed us if he does not vanish out of sight the comforter teacher as a master will not come .. we walk by the faith of Christ as that alone comes from hearing God not seen . The Son of man did not glory in his flesh as a example to us not to also .

posthuman · Jul 15, 2018

garee said:

He did receive worship while walking on earth in the form of a man, and there are also those who, seeing, believed

Then He said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.”

Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

(John 20:27-29)

Thomas calls Him God - a statement of worship - and Christ says of Thomas, 'you have believed'
if He is not God, He should have rebuked Thomas for blasphemy, but instead He approves him, and calls blessed all who likewise believe, but without the tangible evidence Thomas saw. thus being approved, what Thomas believed - that He lives, that He is Lord and He is God - is His will for us also to believe. He has willed that some believe by what has been demonstrated while others believe without material proof.

lest we boast of faith, Thomas is also blessed, having seen:

blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
(Matthew 13:16)

JChesney · Jul 15, 2018

trofimus said:

Biblical Hebrew text

trofimus said:

yes, but sometimes these translations which are ancient enough for us can clarify the meaning of the text in biblical Hebrew (variants of translation, including depending on the vowel). Proverbs 30: 4 was recently mentioned on this forum, the word בְּ֝נֹו (his son) have singular number (it is correspond to Aquila and Symmahus in their thanslations), but LXX supported another vowel בָּנָו (his sons, plural number).

trofimus said:

Concerning the Septuagint, there is a suggestion that there were several editions of Biblical Hebrew text, and some of them may correspond to the text of the Septuagint. This is a very disputable issue, but the biblical texts of Qumran manuscripts close to the Masoretic text (of course the Qumran manuscripts do not clarify the vocal tradition, which in that period was only oral).

JChesney · Jul 15, 2018

trofimus said:

I think that in the Gospel of John (taking into account the ideological features of the author of this Gospel) here sounds the confession of Jesus, that He is the Lord and God. But perhaps this exclamation, when a person in fear can say "oh my God" (although this is more like an evasion).
----

trofimus said:

opponents of the deity of Christ can explain this by the influence Philo of Alexandria on the author of the Gospel. Jehovah's Witnesses here are trying to find some rules for the use of the article, but this is all untrue. Because the authors of the New Testament often do not observe the greek grammar rules of the use the article. Therefore, to go deep into the rules of using the article is not worth it, because with this it is impossible to find any dependable arguments.

----

trofimus said:

For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (ἴσον τῷ Θεῷ)

Click to expand...

trofimus said:

The subject of the Messiah's equality to God developed on the basis of the idea when the Messiah or his angel was near the throne of God (in other words, near God). In the book of Enoch there are images, when "the Son of man" sits on the throne as a judge of the living and the dead. In 1Chr 29:23 it is said that Solomon sat on the throne YHWH (וַיֵּ֣שֶׁב לֹמֹה עַל־כִּסֵּ֨א יְהוָ֧ה ). Sitting on the throne could equate sitting of God (because this is the throne of God). The theme of God's throne is very delicate in Jewish mysticism. If the Messiah is placed on the heavenly throne of God, does He not become equal with God? Thus in the Jewish tradition, the Messiah is not God in the literal sense, but it could be called a God, as Moses (Ex 4:16) and other personages were called same in the Hebrew biblical writings. In this sense the Messiah could be called "God". And he could be equated with God as sitting on the throne of God.
ἐν μορφῇ Θεοῦ - I think it is more consistent with the form/mode of God, in sense of Hebr 1:3 - "he radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being".
"Very nature God" - I can not admit that this is irreproachable variant of translation.
And in this place there are words about the inheritance of "a name, above any name" (2:9). God raises Him to the highest level. But the highest level is God. He was at this highest level, but descended, accomplished a feat. Then He returned back to glory. Therefore, Christ is equal to God, and maybe there is such a meaning.

posthuman · Jul 15, 2018

JChesney said:

the suggestion that Thomas is taking the LORD's name in vain is severely hobbled by Christ commending his response.

trofimus · Jul 15, 2018

JChesney said:

This argument is rather funny than real

JChesney said:

I see no argument in the fact that John is using the concept of Philo. I believe he is. So what...?

The concept of Philo is quite consistent with Hebr 1:3 - "he is radiance of God’s glory".[/QUOTE]

trofimus · Jul 15, 2018

JChesney said:

Which one, judaistic masoretic text from 900 AD or sectarian Qumran texts containing mixed textual variations?

NWL · Jul 16, 2018

trofimus said:

I myself am a JW and am a firm believer that the traditional interpretations of these verse have been warped over the centuries as I will show in regards to the scriptures you gave.

trofimus said:

"For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder, and his name is called the messenger of great counsel, wonderful counsellor, mighty God (Θεὸς ἰσχυρός), potentate, prince of peace, father of the age to come."

Click to expand...

In Isaiah 9:6 the word הָיָה (hayah) is used which is defined as "to fall out, come to pass, become, be" (NASEC). The typical and more correct rendition of the verse according to the best manuscripts today (not that the codex alexandrinus is wholly incorrect):

"..For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.."

As we can see it states that Jesus will become or acquire the epithets listed in Isaiah 9:6 and not that he already has them. This brings into question the whole understand of the word "el" (or "thoes" LXX) and if the word should be understood in the plain sense of the secondary sense of divinity as ascribed to other beings as shown in scripture (see Psalms 8:5, psalms 82:1, John 10:34, 2 Cor 4:4*).

Since is was stated Jesus "will be called", implying a future and not current tense it should be clear that Jesus was not properly a Mighty God at the time of the writing of Isaiah, but rather, would one day be called a Mighty God. This cleary shows that Jesus is here classes as a secondary type of divine being separate ontologically from the almighty divine being ascribed to in scripture, namely the Father.

More could be said here in relation to the doctrine of the trinity here and the implication and contraction of Jesus being called the father here, despite doctrinally being a completely separate person from the father.

trofimus said:

Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God! (ὁ Θεός μου)”

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trofimus said:

Again the understanding of the greek word for "God" needs to come into play here. In english "God" typically refers to a single being who is supreme above all, this was not the understanding in the ancient Greek or Hebrew languages. Other beings who were mighty, powerful, anointed by God or false gods were also properly referred to as Gods, both with definite and indefinite language (See previous example above*).

For example, when we look at 2 Cor 4:4 we see Satan being referred to as ho theos (ὁ θεὸς, the God). Exactly the same language is used when calling Satan God as when Jesus is called God in John 20:28 as can be seen in your quote above.

Would you assume Satan as God according to 2 Cor 4:4, I would think not, yet we find the inconsistent reason applied to John 20:28 as people claim he is God according to the verse. Jesus, like Satan (in a different manner) is a secondary type of god not comparable to almighty God.

trofimus said:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος)

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trofimus said:

The translation you quoted contradicts itself, Jesus cannot be the God whom he was with.

Furthermore, the Greek of the text lacks the definite article before the second usage of theos, thus grammatically, the verse as other alternative renderings which are not contradictory as the one you quoted is, such as "the word was a god/divine".
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trofimus said:

For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (ἴσον τῷ Θεῷ)

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trofimus said:

Yes, this was a commentary by John but nonetheless John was stating the Jews charge. The Jews charge that Jesus was claiming an equality of God was wrong. The Jews also claimed Jesus was demon possessed, no one would accept that Jesus was actually possessed by a charge of a group of people who wanted to find any reason to murder Jesus.

John was simply stating that the Jews were trying to kill him as they believed he was breaking the sabbath and claiming an equality with God. Jesus didn't actually claim an equality with God anymore than he broke the sabbath as mentioned in the verse.

trofimus said:

"Christ Jesus, who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage." (ἐν μορφῇ Θεοῦ, ἴσα Θεῷ)

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trofimus said:

Again, we must review the original languages to truly understand this verse as it can easily be misinterpreted on face value.

Christ Jesus, who, being in the morphē of God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage, but emptied himself, by taking the form (morphēn) of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

morphē in Greek means form, shape, outward appearance. Thus when it states Jesus was in the form of God the verse isn’t saying that Jesus was God or existed in some type of trinity but rather, the body type that God had Jesus too had. The context of the scripture shows this too as its talking about going from the form Jesus had in heaven to the form of flesh.

God is a spirit and has an invisible spirit body, thus too the form Jesus had was a spirit body that was invisible

(John 4:24) “..God is a Spirit..”

(Colossians 1:15) He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God

Thus Phil 2:6,7 is saying that Jesus who existed in the same form as God, namely a spirit form, emptied himself and took on the form of a slave and became human.

The fact that Jesus is separate from God and yet has the same body type as him can be seen from Hebrews 1:3

“He [Jesus] is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being”

Notice, Hebrews 1:3 doesn’t state that Jesus is God, but rather, that Jesus is the exact representation of Gods very being. The verse itself shows Jesus as separate from the person of God.

Christ is God

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