PROVING THE TRINITY IS A BIBLICAL DOCTRINE

[Nehemiah6]

What's to prove, read Isaiah 9:6, then meditate on why in the OT and in the NT we are taught, God is One.

Since Isaiah 9:6 confirms that God is AT LEAST two divine persons, how do you conclude that it means "God is one" ? The Bible says that God is One, and at the same time three in One.

That is why the Hebrew word Elohim (a plurality) is used. In Hebrew any word which ends in -"im" indicates plurality, e.g. cherub/cherubim, seraph/seraphim, etc. Thus el/elohim.

In Isaiah 9:6 (which speaks of Christ as the mighty God) it is simply "el gibbowr".

כִּי־יֶ֣לֶד יֻלַּד־לָ֗נוּ בֵּ֚ן נִתַּן־לָ֔נוּ וַתְּהִ֥י הַמִּשְׂרָ֖ה עַל־שִׁכְמֹ֑ו וַיִּקְרָ֨א שְׁמֹ֜ו פֶּ֠לֶא יֹועֵץ֙ אֵ֣ל גִּבֹּ֔ור אֲבִיעַ֖ד שַׂר־שָׁלֹֽום

But when we read "the LORD God" it is YHWH Elohim (the Godhead).

And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. (Gen 2:15)

וַיִּקַּ֛ח יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהִ֖ים אֶת־הָֽאָדָ֑ם וַיַּנִּחֵ֣הוּ בְגַן־עֵ֔דֶן לְעָבְדָ֖הּ וּלְשָׁמְרָֽהּ

 

[JaumeJ]

It wuld help all in keeping in mind God is everywhere. This is "scriptural" but more important it stresses how though He is our Father and Jesus is the Begotten So, they two are One........aong with His Holy Spirit , omnipresent.

Who do you think came in to dwell in you but the Father, the Son and theHoly Spirit when you first knew Jesus is our Salvation?

It is the Holy Spirit Who explains all we need know to us....that is to say Jesus, that is to say the Father.

Do you think this a circular notion? Perhaps, but it will ramian a mystery until all is revealed, until then knowing this much is squite a leap.

 

[JaumeJ]

Since Isaiah 9:6 confirms that God is AT LEAST two divine persons, how do you conclude that it means "God is one" ? The Bible says that God is One, and at the same time three in One.

That is why the Hebrew word Elohim (a plurality) is used. In Hebrew any word which ends in -"im" indicates plurality, e.g. cherub/cherubim, seraph/seraphim, etc. Thus el/elohim.

In Isaiah 9:6 (which speaks of Christ as the mighty God) it is simply "el gibbowr".

כִּי־יֶ֣לֶד יֻלַּד־לָ֗נוּ בֵּ֚ן נִתַּן־לָ֔נוּ וַתְּהִ֥י הַמִּשְׂרָ֖ה עַל־שִׁכְמֹ֑ו וַיִּקְרָ֨א שְׁמֹ֜ו פֶּ֠לֶא יֹועֵץ֙ אֵ֣ל גִּבֹּ֔ור אֲבִיעַ֖ד שַׂר־שָׁלֹֽום

But when we read "the LORD God" it is YHWH Elohim (the Godhead).

And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. (Gen 2:15)

וַיִּקַּ֛ח יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהִ֖ים אֶת־הָֽאָדָ֑ם וַיַּנִּחֵ֣הוּ בְגַן־עֵ֔דֶן לְעָבְדָ֖הּ וּלְשָׁמְרָֽהּ

You may cut and paste all the languages you wish but Isaiah 9:6 says plainly tht the Child born would be also called the Everlasting Father, God Almighty, Comforter, Ruler of pPeace........etc.......this is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I have read teh Word in Hebrew one time, including the New Testament (Brit Hadasha). , and this does not make me source authority n anything, but the Holy Spirit does enlighten al when necessary..........as for Isaiah 9:6.......it is plainly stated, so please do not try to make it what it is not. Pele joez el gibbor abi as sar shalom...........These are Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.........One.

Hear O Israel the Lord your God is One. Jesus teaches God is One.......I believe hIM.

 

[jb]

Did a bit of a blog on The Trinity, you can find it Here and Here or for a more in depth study have a look Here...

 

[Noose]

Did a bit of a blog on The Trinity, you can find it Here and Here or for a more in depth study have a look Here...

Nice try but that's a shallow look into the scriptures.

 

[bluto]

Was Jesus one person and one being when He was alone?
How do you add two more persons and still end up with one being?

Unless these two persons are within Jesus then it means they are not distinct persons from the person of Jesus.

Christians persecuted other believers in the name of heresy.

No one is adding two persons or three persons for that matter. Who is teaching you this stuff, tell me what church do you attend that would come up with these ridiculous conclusions? Look, John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word/Logos, and the Word/Logos was WITH God, and the Word/Logos was God."

Vs2, He or the Greek literally says, "This one" was in the beginning with God." In other words, Jesus Christ was with God and is God. Use some common sense and think! If your with someone you can't be that someone. If your with your father and mother you are not them, you are your own person just like they are their own persons. When the Bible teaches that God is one it's teaching that God is one in nature, not in person.

This is why the Bible clearly identifies God as three distinct persons. This is also why the Jews accused Jesus of blasphemy and wanting to stone/kill Him on numerous occasions especially when He literally said at John 10:30, "I and the Father, WE ARE ONE." Again, one in nature, not in person. This is not hard to understand if you would study your Bible.

Secondly, Jesus was "NOT" begotten in the sense of biological reproduction or physical birth. It does not refer to the conception of Jesus in Mary's womb. Jesus Christ was "sent" from heaven and not made or created by God His Father. John 3:17, "For God did not SEND the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him." Or John 3"13. "And no one has ascended into heaven, BUT HE WHO DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of Man."

John 3:34, For He whom GOD SENT speaks the words of God etc. John 5:30, "I do not seek My own will, but the will of HIM WHO SENT ME." John 6:38, "FOR I HAVE COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, not to do My own will, but the will of the Father WHO SENT ME." John 8:23, "Youo are from below, I am from above, you are of this wiorld, I am not of this world."

Then there is ole Galatians 4:4, "But when the fulness of the time came, GOD SENT FORTH HIS SON, born of a woman, unded the Law. Vs5, in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive THE ADOPTION OF SONS." We are adopted by God, Jesus Christ was not or is not an adopted Son of God.

And notice Isaiah 9:6, "For a child will be born to us, A SON WILL BE GIVEN;" To be given you have to have already existed. If I give you a loaf of bread, the bread all ready exists. And btw, to those who believe that Jesus Christ is God the Father from where Isaiah 9:6 says, "Eternal Father" it is referring to the Son being the "Source of eternity" and not Him being God the Father.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Noose]

No one is adding two persons or three persons for that matter. Who is teaching you this stuff, tell me what church do you attend that would come up with these ridiculous conclusions? Look, John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word/Logos, and the Word/Logos was WITH God, and the Word/Logos was God."

Vs2, He or the Greek literally says, "This one" was in the beginning with God." In other words, Jesus Christ was with God and is God. Use some common sense and think! If your with someone you can't be that someone. If your with your father and mother you are not them, you are your own person just like they are their own persons. When the Bible teaches that God is one it's teaching that God is one in nature, not in person.

This is why the Bible clearly identifies God as three distinct persons. This is also why the Jews accused Jesus of blasphemy and wanting to stone/kill Him on numerous occasions especially when He literally said at John 10:30, "I and the Father, WE ARE ONE." Again, one in nature, not in person. This is not hard to understand if you would study your Bible.

Secondly, Jesus was "NOT" begotten in the sense of biological reproduction or physical birth. It does not refer to the conception of Jesus in Mary's womb. Jesus Christ was "sent" from heaven and not made or created by God His Father. John 3:17, "For God did not SEND the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him." Or John 3"13. "And no one has ascended into heaven, BUT HE WHO DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of Man."

John 3:34, For He whom GOD SENT speaks the words of God etc. John 5:30, "I do not seek My own will, but the will of HIM WHO SENT ME." John 6:38, "FOR I HAVE COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, not to do My own will, but the will of the Father WHO SENT ME." John 8:23, "Youo are from below, I am from above, you are of this wiorld, I am not of this world."

Then there is ole Galatians 4:4, "But when the fulness of the time came, GOD SENT FORTH HIS SON, born of a woman, unded the Law. Vs5, in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive THE ADOPTION OF SONS." We are adopted by God, Jesus Christ was not or is not an adopted Son of God.

And notice Isaiah 9:6, "For a child will be born to us, A SON WILL BE GIVEN;" To be given you have to have already existed. If I give you a loaf of bread, the bread all ready exists. And btw, to those who believe that Jesus Christ is God the Father from where Isaiah 9:6 says, "Eternal Father" it is referring to the Son being the "Source of eternity" and not Him being God the Father.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Why do you have to write up all these things, they prove nothing. If i'm with my father and mother, i'm not them but we certainly are not one also, we are clearly three beings- me, my father and my mother.

John 1:1 doesn't not prove three distinct persons in one being, the furthest it can go is to show two distinct persons and therefore two beings. And none of those verses you quoted proves three distinct persons in one being either.

No twisting and turning, a simple question for you.

Q. Is Jesus by Himself, one person and one being?

 

[bluto]

Why do you have to write up all these things, they prove nothing. If i'm with my father and mother, i'm not them but we certainly are not one also, we are clearly three beings- me, my father and my mother.

John 1:1 doesn't not prove three distinct persons in one being, the furthest it can go is to show two distinct persons and therefore two beings. And none of those verses you quoted proves three distinct persons in one being either.

No twisting and turning, a simple question for you.

Q. Is Jesus by Himself, one person and one being?

And what you write, proves what? One of my purposes of being here is to engage theological innovators like yourself and, by CHALLENGING your claims, get you to EXPOSE the errors of your assumptions, inferences and conclusions for any and all interested parties to see for themselves. I want to thank you for assisting me. In short, your not the only one who reads these threads and post.

And yes, Jesus by Himself is one person and one being just like your by yourself and one being. So if your in your bedroom all alone are you one being all by yourself or is somebody else in there with you?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Noose]

And what you write, proves what? One of my purposes of being here is to engage theological innovators like yourself and, by CHALLENGING your claims, get you to EXPOSE the errors of your assumptions, inferences and conclusions for any and all interested parties to see for themselves. I want to thank you for assisting me. In short, your not the only one who reads these threads and post.

And yes, Jesus by Himself is one person and one being just like your by yourself and one being. So if your in your bedroom all alone are you one being all by yourself or is somebody else in there with you?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

If i'm in the bedroom by myself, i'm one person and one being, there'll be nobody with me or beside me.

God is one being
Jesus is God
Jesus is one being

So is the Father one being by Himself like Jesus is?
Is the Holy spirit one being by Himself like Jesus is?

 

[Zmouth]

What kind of nonsense is this? "Either the trinity doctrine is right or the Bible is wrong?" Since it is the Bible which presents the doctrine of the triune Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) what are you trying to say other than introduce conflict? (which you seem to specialize in)

If the trinity is true then you should have no problem answering this question.

So who did Jesus see when he saw the light?​

Since it is obvious that he wouldn't say you, then would you believe Jesus if you heard him audibly saying I am?

Spoiler: And ye say ye have faith when faith comes by hearing....

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: Gen 1:3-4
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: John 8:12


au·dib·ly ˈôdəblē/ adverb
1. in a way that can be heard.
Source

 

[OstrichSmiling]

I don't know the meaning of the word raca, what does it mean?

Racca is found only once in scripture in Matthew 5:22. But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
ῥακά (rhaka)
Strong: G4469
GK: G4819
raca, an Aramaic term of bitter contempt, worthless fellow, fool, Mt. 5:22

Bible Dictionary:
Raca [N] [H]
vain, empty, worthless, only found in Matthew 5:22 . The Jews used it as a word of contempt. It is derived from a root meaning "to spit."

Banning and burning are the same in the sense that they are both done to either silence critics or annihilate people who hold a different view. None of them is approved by Jesus.

That's one for the Mod's.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

Racca is found only once in scripture in Matthew 5:22. But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
ῥακά (rhaka)
Strong: G4469
GK: G4819
raca, an Aramaic term of bitter contempt, worthless fellow, fool, Mt. 5:22

Bible Dictionary:
Raca [N] [H]
vain, empty, worthless, only found in Matthew 5:22 . The Jews used it as a word of contempt. It is derived from a root meaning "to spit."

Banning and burning are the same in the sense that they are both done to either silence critics or annihilate people who hold a different view. None of them is approved by Jesus.

That's one for the Mod's.

I had to quote this so as to remove the strike through that posted to the Bible Dictionary definition.
That's really weird because I did not strike through that BD entry. Nor did it appear when I committed the reply to post. But now I come in to check the alert I received and the entry for Raca has strike through lines all through it.
Maybe the devil has a keyboard and that's how he messes with Christians posting from Bible Dictionary.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If the trinity is true then you should have no problem answering this question.

So who did Jesus see when he saw the light?​

Well for your information, Jesus NEVER said that or indicated that He saw the light. But He did say "I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD". Big difference.

And this has nothing to do with the Trinity per se. For that we must go to John 1:1 and see TWO persons in the Godhead. Then when we go to Christ's baptism, we see THREE persons in the Godhead. Then when we go to Christian baptism, we also see THREE persons in the Godhead.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

Well for your information, Jesus NEVER said that or indicated that He saw the light. But He did say "I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD". Big difference.

And this has nothing to do with the Trinity per se. For that we must go to John 1:1 and see TWO persons in the Godhead. Then when we go to Christ's baptism, we see THREE persons in the Godhead. Then when we go to Christian baptism, we also see THREE persons in the Godhead.

Do we?
Acts2:37-41 When they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and they said to Peter and to the other apostles, "Brethren, what are we to do?" Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, for this promise is to you and to your children and to all who are afar off, to all those whom the Lord your God invites." With many other words he gave his witness and he urged them, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation." So they accepted his word and were baptized and on that day there were added to them about three thousand people.

 

[bluto]

If i'm in the bedroom by myself, i'm one person and one being, there'll be nobody with me or beside me.

God is one being
Jesus is God
Jesus is one being

So is the Father one being by Himself like Jesus is?
Is the Holy spirit one being by Himself like Jesus is?

Well now look at this? Why are you complaining about what I wrote "all this stuff because it proves nothing?" Is that what you think of Gods word. I gave nothing but scripture to prove that Jesus Christ was sent and not made or created as you falsely claim. Instead of refuting what was posted you ask a question? "Was Jesus by Himself etc. Then I answer your question and you still ask another question?

Here is you question?
So is the Father one being by Himself like Jesus is?
Is the Holy spirit one being by Himself like Jesus is?

You really think you got me "trapped," don't you? So here is some Scripture for you that Jesus said at John 14:23, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and "WE" will come to him, and make OUR abode with him." In this one verse Jesus uses the word "WE" which by definition means more than one person.

So tell me noose, if you claim to be a Christian, does ONE being live in you or two persons like the verse says? Oh yea, and one more thing Jesus said at John 14:16, "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper/Holy Spirit, that He may be with you forever." So now are you going to tell me there are three beings that indwell a believer or is it three persons that is the ONE God?

Now what excuse are you going to come up with? And if you notice, John 14:16 has three persons in view in the one verse. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Since your so insistent that God is one, (and He is one) how come Jesus says three persons indwells a believer and they are in the person forever?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[bluto]

Do we?
Acts2:37-41 When they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and they said to Peter and to the other apostles, "Brethren, what are we to do?" Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, for this promise is to you and to your children and to all who are afar off, to all those whom the Lord your God invites." With many other words he gave his witness and he urged them, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation." So they accepted his word and were baptized and on that day there were added to them about three thousand people.

So what? Does that mean if a person is not water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ only they are not saved? And what about Matthew 28:19, those words of Jesus some how don't count? Besides, people are saved even if they never get water baptized.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[OstrichSmiling]

So what? Does that mean if a person is not water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ only they are not saved? And what about Matthew 28:19, those words of Jesus some how don't count? Besides, people are saved even if they never get water baptized.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

John 3:18
Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

 

[bluto]

John 3:18
Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Ok, so you agree with me, right?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[OstrichSmiling]

Ok, so you agree with me, right?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Do we?

Why did you avoid quoting the actual commandment of Christ from Matthew 28:19? That is what I was referring to and that is the authoritative commandment of Christ regardless of how it is presented elsewhere.