How long until the End?

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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
#61
Brothers and Sisters,

Understand this fact:

The statue of Daniel 2 is finished and the toes have ended. The stone is about to strike.

We are not in the iron anymore, we are at the very instant before the stone strikes.
abcdef, understand this, the ten toed kingdom has not yet even begun! Nebuchadnezzar's statue represents all Gentile governments/kingdoms, with Babylon being the head, Medo/Persia representing the chest and arms, Greece is represented by the belly and thighs, with the Roman empire of old representing the legs of iron. The ten-toed kingdom will be a mixture of iron and baked clay. The baked clay represents a mixture of people which means that coming ten-toed kingdom will not have the power that it did when it was pure iron. The ten-toed kingdom is synonymous with those ten kings of Rev.17 who are appointed as kings in a short period of time along with the beast and who give their power and authority to beast. Those future ten kings with their ten kingdoms have not yet been revealed or established.

The Rock that is cut out of the mountain but not by human hands that falls on the feet of the statue, symbolically represents Jesus. His falling on the feet of the statue and it being smashed to pieces like chaff on a threshing floor with the wind blowing it away never to be found again, will be accomplished through the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, so that all human government will be dismantled in preparation for the Lord's millennial kingdom.

You all have been thinking that all the things are in the future, or that everything was finished by 70 AD. Both of these leave out the time between 70 ad and 1967, the Times of the Gentiles (ToG's). Lk 21:24, 70 AD - 1967, also known as the great tribulation/trouble of Israel.
You are correct in that, we are thinking of these things taking place in the future and is in fact when it will take place. The great tribulation is defined by the Lord in Matt.24:15 as referring to the middle of the seven years when the abomination is set up, until 3 1/2 years later when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. Both Daniel and the Lord said that it would be a time of great tribulation such as the world has never seen, from the beginning, until now and never to be equaled again. It will be so bad that the Lord said, if those days had not cut short, no one would be left alive. Needless to say, we have neither seen the abomination nor that time of great tribulation. You talk about things that you known nothing about.

After the 2 Witnesses are killed, by the armies from across the Euphrates, who are deceived by the false prophet image Vatican Caesar, the stone will strike and this planet will end in fire.[/;quote]

The two witnesses will be two literal men. In support of this, the beast who comes up from the Abyss is the one who kills them after they have finished their 3 1/2 years of prophecy. They are not killed by the kings of the east. I've warned you before that you should not be teaching these things because they are completely false. And if you continue teaching them you will be held accountable for them. Remember what the Lord said about adding to or taking away from the prophesies of the book of Revelation, which is what you are doing.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
#62
"Ahwatukee, post: 3675266, member: 216503"]

Brother Ahwatukee,

abcdef, understand this, the ten toed kingdom has not yet even begun!
The ten toes/horns are symbolic of complete division and they do not come together again, but diminish and end.

The iron begins when Rome invades Israel in 63 BC.

The ten toes began in 476 AD when the Roman Empire fell and was completely divided with the clay of the non-Roman gentile nations.

If you say that we are still in the time of the iron legs, where there is no gap in the Roman iron nation legs, then who is the iron right now?

Who was the iron Roman nation 500 years ago? 1500 years ago? If we a still in the time of the legs?

You want to put a gap in the iron legs nation where there is not one. Who ruled Israel after 70 AD?



Nebuchadnezzar's statue represents all Gentile governments/kingdoms,
No, the statue of Daniel 2 represents the gentile nations that rule over Israel, until Israel is restored to control of Jerusalem.

Then the toes/horns end when the power of Rome/clay over Israel ends. The statue has ended since 1967.



with Babylon being the head, Medo/Persia representing the chest and arms, Greece is represented by the belly and thighs,
These 3 empires ruled Israel, not the entire gentile world planet. "Western civilization" surrounding the cradle of civilization at most.


with the Roman empire of old representing the legs of iron.
The Roman Empire into the feet becomes mixed with clay, non-Roman gentile nations that rule over Israel, not the planet.


The ten-toed kingdom will be a mixture of iron and baked clay.
The 10 toes/horn period is not showing one kingdom. 476 AD - 1967

First, the clay is not part of the iron, so that shows the division between the Roman and non-Roman nations.

Second, there are 10 toes/horns that do not return together, but diminish in power and end.

Third, the iron is the kingdom that is the beast kingdom. From the invasion of Israel in 63 BC until the power of persecution over Israel ends in 1967. That means that the iron beast kingdom has been here since 63 BC.


The baked clay represents a mixture of people
Non-Roman gentile nations that divide iron Rome.


which means that coming ten-toed kingdom
The Roman Empire deteriorated as the non-Roman peoples invaded and controlled various parts of the empire, that is the feet.

When the Roman Empire fell in 476 AD,. that is when the 10 toes/horns period began. The number 10 means complete division and is a symbolic number in a symbolic passage.

The iron Empire after 476 AD was the RCC, the image Caesar and image empire. This fills in the gap in the time line that you want to insert.

The problem for you is that if you admit the the iron is the RCC after 476 AD., then it proves that the Antichrist is Caesar and the Bishop of Rome and has been here all the time as the Roman iron beast nation. (No gaps in the iron Roman nation time line.)


will not have the power that it did when it was pure iron.
The clay first weakens the statue in the feet, then also the toes.

But who is the iron in the feet and toes? It is the same iron as the legs with out a gap.

So who is the iron nation right now?


The ten-toed kingdom is synonymous with those ten kings of Rev.17 who are appointed as kings in a short period of time along with the beast and who give their power and authority to beast.
True, so there are different kingdoms that are remnants of the Roman Empire. At the same time we know that these kings are also divided by the clay.

They are kings who rule with the 8th head, and rule with him.

But if the 8th head is yet to come, according to you, then who is the 7th head who rules the iron right now?


Those future ten kings with their ten kingdoms have not yet been revealed or established.
The iron has been established since Rome invaded Israel in 63 BC. who is the iron right now? (No gaps in the time line of the Roman iron beast nation.)

The toes/ horns have ended since Israel was restored to control of Jerusalem in 1967.

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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
#63
"Ahwatukee, post: 3675266, member: 216503"]

Brother Ahwatukee,

The ten toes/horns are symbolic of complete division and they do not come together again, but diminish and end.
As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. The following is what scripture says the ten kings/ten toes represent:

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

Read and understand that the ten horns are ten kings, which are synonymous with the ten toed kingdom of Daniel. What you wrote above does not make any sense. They will be ten literal kings over ten kingdoms and who will give their power an authority to the beast.

"The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled."

The iron begins when Rome invades Israel in 63 BC.
The above is gibberish and makes no sense, like most of the stuff that you post. I'm sorry for being so candid, but I want you to stop with these teachings because they are false and you are not my brother but an enemy of God and His word because of these false teachings.

The ten toes began in 476 AD when the Roman Empire fell and was completely divided with the clay of the non-Roman gentile nations.
As I said, the ten toes are those kings who will rule concurrently with the beast, none of which have yet been revealed. These are events that are going to take place during that last seven years and specifically during the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.

If you say that we are still in the time of the iron legs, where there is no gap in the Roman iron nation legs, then who is the iron right now?
The legs of iron are representing Rome in its previous full strength when it was all iron. The ten toes made of iron and partly baked clay will be a revived or extension of Rome, but without the same power that it had when it was completely iron. The baked clay represents a mixture of other people as the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay. This ten-toed kingdom of iron and baked clay, will be a future revived Rome with the authority to control all people by the support of the beast, because one of the future popes is going to play the part of the false prophet.

No, the statue of Daniel 2 represents the gentile nations that rule over Israel, until Israel is restored to control of Jerusalem.

Then the toes/horns end when the power of Rome/clay over Israel ends. The statue has ended since 1967.
Once again, the above is nothing but blather. You don't know what you are talking about. You and others like you who claim that end-time events took place at the destruction of the temple in 70 AD will be taken by complete surprise when these events begin to take place.

This what is going to happen so that you will know when it does.

* The Lord is going to descend to gather His bride, the church and take her back to the Father's house.

* The antichrist is going to be revealed initiating that seven year agreement with Israel allowing her to build her temple

* During this seven years, God's wrath will begin to be poured out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments

* In the middle of the seven, the antichrist/beast will cause the sacrifices and offerings to cease and will set up that abomination

* This cause the desolation which is when Israel will flee out into the wilderness for 1260 days where she will be cared for by God until Jesus returns to the earth at the end of the seven years to end the age - Rev.12:6, 14.

* During the middle of that seven year period is when those ten will be appointed as kings along with the beast and will give their power and authority to the beast - Rev.17:12

* During that last 3 1/2 years is also when the beast will be given authority to make war and to conquer the great tribulation saints - Rev.13:5-7

* After the 7th bowl is poured out which completes God's wrath, Jesus will return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.

* The beast and the false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire alive - Rev.19:20

* Satan will be seized by a mighty angel and thrown into the Abyss during the Lord's thousand year reign so that he cannot deceive the nations during that thousand years - Rev.20:1-3

* The Millennial period

S
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
#65
As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about.


Brother, remember this, the amount of scriptures that we do agree on, is by far greater than the scriptures that we disagree about.

The ones that we disagree on are just talked about more often than the others on CC. If we were in a congregation together we would be preaching the gospel kingdom as our center. This prophecy stuff is really secondary to saving souls.

Jesus is coming for us and we will meet Him in the air. We just disagree about when that will happen.



The following is what scripture says the ten kings/ten toes represent:
"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with there the beast."

Read and understand that the ten horns are ten kings, which are synonymous with the ten toed kingdom of Daniel. What you wrote above does not make any sense. They will be ten literal kings over ten kingdoms and who will give their power an authority to the beast.


If the ten kings are literal, then the time of one hour must be literal also. Yes? They reign for one literal hour, 60 minuets. How long is the hour? if it is not literal?

Is the beast a literal animal? Like a lion, bear, or a leopard? (It is a nation that rules over the people of Israel.)

Are the 7 heads literal? 7 people? 7 individuals? Then the 7 heads and the 8th head died years ago. (The 7 heads represent the lifetime of the beast Roman Empire. The 8th head is the image empire, RCC.)

--

Rev 17:10, John says that the 6th head "is", in 96 AD approx.. Then the 7th head comes after the end of the time of the 6th head.

The ten kings appear with the 8th head and reign with him.

So the ten kings appear after 96 AD. after the time of the 6th head.


So when does the 7th head appear? ( After the time of the 6th head ends)

When does the time of the 7th end, so that the 8th head can come? (The 7th head of the Roman Empire beast dies in 476 AD)

Who is the Roman Empire beast after 476 AD, the 8th head? (The image of Caesar and the Roman Empire, the Vatican and the Bishop of Rome (BoR).)

The time of the 10 kings begins with the death of the 7th Head (the last Caesar of the Roman Empire). 476 AD is the time when the 10 kings began, but history proves that the number "10" is not literal in that context.


"The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled."
Did you know that I changed my opinion on the identity of the woman in Rev 17? I now believe that the harlot is the people of Israel after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD in Roman (Babylon) captivity, but still persecuting the churches of Asia.


The above is gibberish and makes no sense, like most of the stuff that you post. I'm sorry for being so candid, but I want you to stop with these teachings because they are false and you are not my brother but an enemy of God and His word because of these false teachings.

According to the statue in Dan 2, the people of Israel are dominated by 4 empires. Each empire rules Israel for a certain time period.

The time of the iron in the statue begins when Rome invades Israel 63 BC.

What's so gibberish about that?

-----

Most Christians have disagreed about prophecy for 1900 years. Does that mean that we are not Christians? Because God chooses to reveal prophecy to one and not another? These things that we discuss, prophecy, they are not necessarily salvation issues.

Should we say that those who lived 1000 years ago were false teachers and not Christians, against God? Because they got their prophecies wrong? But still got their salvation issues right?


As I said, the ten toes are those kings who will rule concurrently with the beast, none of which have yet been revealed.
It was revealed at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD that Caesar was the Antichrist and that the iron of the statue in Dan. 2 was the Roman Empire.


These are events that are going to take place during that last seven years and specifically during the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.
It doesn't say "7 years", it says 7 times. The 7 times are the same time period as the statue in Dan. 2.

Proven by the angel in Dan. 12:6-7 that says, the time from the captivity in Babylon until the scattering in 70 AD is the first 3 1/2 times. (The second 3 1/2 times is from 70 AD until 1967 when Israel was restored to control over Jerusalem.)


The legs of iron are representing Rome in its previous full strength when it was all iron.
The iron does not end. Who was the iron 500 years ago?


The ten toes made of iron and partly baked clay will be a revived or extension of Rome,
The 10 toes are are an extension of Rome, but not a revival, because the iron does not end and then begin again. The iron has continual strength even to the end of the toes.

Who was the iron 500 years ago?


but without the same power that it had when it was completely iron.
If you say that the iron lost it's power, when it was mixed with clay, how does it regain it's power to rule? The statue shows just the opposite of regaining power. The statue shows that the legs grow smaller over time, then it is mixed with clay, that weakens it even further. Then the toes are smaller and come to an end. The statue shows no regaining of power, only diminishing power.


The baked clay represents a mixture of other people as the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay. This ten-toed kingdom of iron and baked clay, will be a future revived Rome with the authority to control all people by the support of the beast, because one of the future popes is going to play the part of the false prophet.
Yes, you recognize the BoR as the false prophet, but you don't see that he has been here all this time already! The Caesar Antichrist image.


Once again, the above is nothing but blather. You don't know what you are talking about. You and others like you who claim that end-time events took place at the destruction of the temple in 70 AD will be taken by complete surprise when these events begin to take place.
Lk 21:20-24, 24, They shall fall by the sword. (They use guns and bombs now.)




This what is going to happen so that you will know when it does.
* The Lord is going to descend to gather His bride, the church and take her back to the Father's house.


1 Cor 15:23-28, Says that the kingdom is delivered up to the Father after death is destroyed, Rev 20:14-15.


* The antichrist is going to be revealed initiating that seven year agreement with Israel allowing her to build her temple
The Antichrist is revealed as Caesar and his image the Vatican. The prince who is to come.

Jesus confirmed the covenant with Israel for 7 years. From the beginning of His ministry until Israel rejected the gospel kingdom and the gentiles came in.


* During this seven years, God's wrath will begin to be poured out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments
1-7 Seals, 37 AD Israel rejects the gospel kingdom until 70 ad when Jerusalem falls.

1-7 Trumpets, 70 AD until Jesus comes for the Kingdom Rev 11:15.

The same story is repeated over and over again. The Rev is not one continual time line.

==============
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,538
17,014
113
69
Tennessee
#66
Brother, remember this, the amount of scriptures that we do agree on, is by far greater than the scriptures that we disagree about.

The ones that we disagree on are just talked about more often than the others on CC. If we were in a congregation together we would be preaching the gospel kingdom as our center. This prophecy stuff is really secondary to saving souls.
I fully concur with your estimation.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
#67
Brother, remember this, the amount of scriptures that we do agree on, is by far greater than the scriptures that we disagree about.

The ones that we disagree on are just talked about more often than the others on CC. If we were in a congregation together we would be preaching the gospel kingdom as our center. This prophecy stuff is really secondary to saving souls.

Jesus is coming for us and we will meet Him in the air. We just disagree about when that will happen.
I disagree, because you have distorted the words of this book of Revelation and have been teaching as such. Regarding this Rev.22:16 states the following:

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll."

Have you not taught that end-time events have already taken place? Have you not distorted the words of this prophecy by your teaching? Yet, we have yet to see the revealing of the antichrist, nor have we seen any of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. You water down the events of God's wrath. We have not even entered into that last seven years, which will be initiated by the antichrist establishing his seven year covenant with Israel. You teach about things that you know nothing about as though they were true.

If the ten kings are literal, then the time of one hour must be literal also. Yes? They reign for one literal hour, 60 minuets. How long is the hour? if it is not literal?
If the literal sense makes good sense then don't seek any other sense. That said, does it make good sense that those ten kings are only kings for one hour? About the only thing that they could accomplish in one hour is to go to lunch. I have studied this through and through and the scripture is not saying that they are made kings for an hour, but are appointed as kings within one hour, i.e. these ten are appointed as kings in a short period of time along with the beast. Those ten kings will remain as kings giving their power and authority throughout the entire last 3 1/2 years. We know this from the following scripture:

"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour (in a short period of time) will receive authority as kings along with the beast. They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. They (the beast and ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

In the scripture above, we see a reference made regarding the beast and the ten kings waging war against the Lamb, which is in reference to when the Lord returns to the earth at the end of the seven years to end the age. That being true, how can they be kings for only one hour when it shows them waging war against the Lamb when He returns to the earth? They are not kings for an hour, but are appointed as kings within an hour. They are appointed as kings in a short of period of time.

Your conclusion regarding the hour not being literal and therefore the ten kings not being literal, is an erroneous conclusion. This is the same kind of thinking of the preterists. They say that because Satan is a spirit being that the key to the Abyss and the chain and his being bound must be symbolic. Yet, regarding the key to the Abyss and the chain, whether corporeal or spiritual, the result is the same, which is that Satan will literally be bound in the Abyss. Obviously there is some type of barrier under the earth to keep those demonic beings from coming back up, else they would. Their exegetical reasoning is flawed because of the writings of false teachers that they have adopted.

Is the beast a literal animal? Like a lion, bear, or a leopard? (It is a nation that rules over the people of Israel.)
As stated earlier, "if the literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense." That said, does it make more sense that the word "beast" as referring to a literal beast or as being a symbolic designation referring to that last ruler? Regarding this, Jesus is referred to as the Lamb. Does it make good sense that He is a literal Lamb or is it a symbolic designation describing His characteristics?

Are the 7 heads literal? 7 people? 7 individuals? Then the 7 heads and the 8th head died years ago. (The 7 heads represent the lifetime of the beast Roman Empire. The 8th head is the image empire, RCC.)
"The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings."

We are told right in the scripture that the seven heads are symbolic representing seven hills upon which the woman sits and the seven heads also represent seven successions of kings. No brainer here in that we are told that the heads are symbolic. The eighth king is that beast will come up out of the Abyss and will be the power behind the antichrist.

"The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction."

Rev 17:10, John says that the 6th head "is", in 96 AD approx.. Then the 7th head comes after the end of the time of the 6th head. So when does the 7th head appear? ( After the time of the 6th head ends)
We have no idea what year the 6th king ruled. Since Domitian ruled as emperor from 81AD to 96AD, then somewhere in there is when the 6th king ruled. The eighth who is that beast who comes up from the Abyss is still future. This beast who comes up from the Abyss is a fall angel who was once in the world most likely the power behind another king or military ruler. He was put into the Abyss at some time and will be coming out again at the sounding of the 5th trumpet, for that is when the Abyss opened. He is that angel of the Abyss called Abaddon/Apollyon.

Continued because of word restrictions
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
#68
The ten kings appear with the 8th head and reign with him. So the ten kings appear after 96 AD. after the time of the 6th head. When does the time of the 7th end, so that the 8th head can come? (The 7th head of the Roman Empire beast dies in 476 AD)
While it is true that the ten kings appear with the eighth king, why would you assume that he must have already appeared. Since the 5th trumpet has not been sounded, then that eighth king, the beast, that angel of the Abyss, could not have yet come out. These are future events which will take place during that last seven year period, which has not yet begun.

Who is the Roman Empire beast after 476 AD, the 8th head? (The image of Caesar and the Roman Empire, the Vatican and the Bishop of Rome (BoR).)
The above is an assumption on your part. Why would you interpret the as being in our past opposed to being a future event?

The time of the 10 kings begins with the death of the 7th Head (the last Caesar of the Roman Empire). 476 AD is the time when the 10 kings began, but history proves that the number "10" is not literal in that context.
Again, how can the ten kings be in the past, when it describes them along with the beast as making war with Christ when He returns to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom?

When God uses the numbers a thousand years, a 144,000, 200 million, a great a number which no man can count, a fourth, a third, 1260 days, etc., that is what He means. There is no reason to symbolize those numbers.

Did you know that I changed my opinion on the identity of the woman in Rev 17? I now believe that the harlot is the people of Israel after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD in Roman (Babylon) captivity, but still persecuting the churches of Asia.
And you would be wrong with your conclusion. The truth can always be found in scripture, which is why it is necessary to compare and cross-reference scripture. Below is the reason why Jerusalem and her people Israel cannot be the woman who rides the beast:

Mystery, Babylon the great, the woman who rides the beast, which is that city that sits on seven hills, is destroyed so that no one will ever be able to inhabit her again, as can be garnered from the information below:

"With such violence the great city of Babylon will be thrown down, never to be found again.

The music of harpists and musicians, pipers and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again.

No worker of any trade will ever be found in you again.

The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again.

The light of a lamp will never shine in you again.

The voice of bridegroom and bride will never be heard in you again."

Jerusalem and her people Israel will be inhabited throughout the entire thousand years:

"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them."

Since the woman that rides the beast, who is that city that sits on seven hills, is destroyed so that no one will be able to inhabit her again and we have scripture showing that there will be people living in the camp of God's people, the city that He loves, which could only be referring to Jerusalem and its people Israel, then we can conclude that Israel/Jerusalem is not the woman who rides the beast.

Most Christians have disagreed about prophecy for 1900 years. Does that mean that we are not Christians? Because God chooses to reveal prophecy to one and not another? These things that we discuss, prophecy, they are not necessarily salvation issues.

Should we say that those who lived 1000 years ago were false teachers and not Christians, against God? Because they got their prophecies wrong? But still got their salvation issues right?
I'll let scripture answer those questions:

"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves."

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

It was revealed at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD that Caesar was the Antichrist and that the iron of the statue in Dan. 2 was the Roman Empire.
He may have been a type of antichrist, but he was not the one who is to come, that last day ruler who will be destroyed when the Lord's return to end the age, where both he and the false prophet will be thrown alive into the lake of fire.

"Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.


It doesn't say "7 years", it says 7 times. The 7 times are the same time period as the statue in Dan. 2.
It actually says, "seven weeks" or seven weeks of years. Seventy sevens have been decreed upon your people and their holy city, i.e. seventy sets of seven years.

Seven 'sevens to restore and rebuild Jerusalem = 7 X 7 years = 49 years

Sixty two sevens = 62 seven year periods = 434

seven sevens and sixty two sevens = 483 years

The last seven years which are still future:

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

by the angel in Dan. 12:6-7 that says, the time from the captivity in Babylon until the scattering in 70 AD is the first 3 1/2 times. (The second 3 1/2 times is from 70 AD until 1967 when Israel was restored to control over Jerusalem.)
The length of time is mentioned in Daniel as a time = 1 year, times = 2 years and a half of time = half a year = 3 /1/2 years.

That last seven year period is divided up into two 3 1/2 years periods referred to in Revelation as 1260 days, 42 months and a time, times and a half a time. These are all referring to that time period of that last seven years.

The iron does not end. Who was the iron 500 years ago?
The iron was when Rome was in its full strength. A revived or extension of that Roman rule through her religious system will come back into power with one of the future popes as the false prophet. That ten-toed kingdom will not have the same power that it did when it was pure iron and that because the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.

The 10 toes are are an extension of Rome, but not a revival, because the iron does not end and then begin again. The iron has continual strength even to the end of the toes.
Well, has Rome been a power on the earth since the third century? No! Rome has not been a ruling kingdom since that time. That is why the ten-toes kingdom is mentioned as being made up of iron and partly baked clay, because it will not have the same power as it did when it was pure iron. Rome as the pure iron has ceased to exist, but will revive as iron and partly baked clay.

If you say that the iron lost it's power, when it was mixed with clay, how does it regain it's power to rule?
Rome and her religious pagan system, who's practices stem from Babylon, will regain power through the revealing of the antichrist. I believe that one of the future popes will play the part of the false prophet and will be the one performing those miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the first beast and for the purpose of deceiving the inhabitants of the earth.
 

Dooms

Junior Member
Feb 8, 2018
70
69
18
#69
Regardless of the exact date..........every day dawned is ONE DAY CLOSER..........sooooo
I take a pragmatic attitude to it as well. If the end is tomorrow, or a 1000 years from tomorrow, we are called the same. Have faith.
 

DudleyDorite

Active member
Aug 7, 2018
329
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#70
Considering all that is happening around the world, and considering all your study and research and what the Lord revealed to you, shown you, or caused you to understand... How long do you think we have until the end of all things or the end of the world as we know it? Let me point to the fact that I'm not asking you for a date and also perhaps take this opportunity to point out that a date has 4 components: a specific hour, in a specific day, in a specific month, in a specific year. In other words, how many more years do you think we have left until the Lord's return?
This is only an educated guess, and I don't go by Daniel's 70th week which 'I think' was fulfilled during Christ first advent. 2030-2033 is my guess. That's simply based on the 1,000 years and the time that has passed since Adam.

The signs are here with more to come, and so is the prophesied religion which will launch the planet into tribulation.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
#71
"Ahwatukee, post: 3677348, member: 216503"

The length of time is mentioned in Daniel as a time = 1 year, times = 2 years and a half of time = half a year = 3 /1/2 years.


===================================================

Daniel 12:5-7, 7

V 6, How long until the end of these wonders? v 7, until they are finished?

V 7, 3 1/2 times, not years. To make it say years is an assumption on your part, it does not say years!

This verse is the key to understanding the prophetic time line.

The 7 times are the same time period as the statue in Dan. 2. Babylon until Israel is restored to Jerusalem.

------

V 7 is clearly showing that the time from the Babylonian captivity, until the scattering of Israel in 70 AD is the first 3 1/2 times.

(The second 3 1/2 times is from 70 ad until 1967 when Israel was restored to Jerusalem.)

-----

Understand that the time that the Antichrist is given power over the saints/holy people/Israel is 3 1/2 times. (Dan 7, Rev 13).

That is the time that Rome rules over Israel, broken natural branches and wild branches.

70 ad until 1967, the second 3 1/2 times.

-----

The Roman Empire fell in 476 ad.

The RCC is the Iron after Rome fell. It exists to this day, in the unbroken time line of the statue in Dan. 2.

So the Antichrist has been here all this time. 70 ad until this present day.

It was revealed in the 70 ad time period that Caesar was the Antichrist and that Rome was the iron of the statue. The BoR and the Vatican are the "image"of the Roman Empire to this day.

---------------

Dan 2:39, Did the Empire of Greece rule the planet? or Israel?

According to this verse, Greece ruled the planet, or "all the earth", under your understanding.

Understand that "all the earth", means the earth of Israel, not the planet.

Now understand that when it says that the Roman beast rules the world, it is not the planet, but the world of Israel.

After the Roman Empire falls, the image Empire RCC rules the people of Israel.

The toes/horns end when Israel is restored to Jerusalem.

------
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
#72
"Ahwatukee, post: 3677348, member: 216503"

The length of time is mentioned in Daniel as a time = 1 year, times = 2 years and a half of time = half a year = 3 /1/2 years.

===================================================

Daniel 12:5-7, 7

V 6, How long until the end of these wonders? v 7, until they are finished?

V 7, 3 1/2 times, not years. To make it say years is an assumption on your part, it does not say years!

This verse is the key to understanding the prophetic time line.

The 7 times are the same time period as the statue in Dan. 2. Babylon until Israel is restored to Jerusalem.

------

V 7 is clearly showing that the time from the Babylonian captivity, until the scattering of Israel in 70 AD is the first 3 1/2 times.

(The second 3 1/2 times is from 70 ad until 1967 when Israel was restored to Jerusalem.)

-----

Understand that the time that the Antichrist is given power over the saints/holy people/Israel is 3 1/2 times. (Dan 7, Rev 13).

That is the time that Rome rules over Israel, broken natural branches and wild branches.

70 ad until 1967, the second 3 1/2 times.

-----

The Roman Empire fell in 476 ad.

The RCC is the Iron after Rome fell. It exists to this day, in the unbroken time line of the statue in Dan. 2.

So the Antichrist has been here all this time. 70 ad until this present day.

It was revealed in the 70 ad time period that Caesar was the Antichrist and that Rome was the iron of the statue. The BoR and the Vatican are the "image"of the Roman Empire to this day.

---------------

Dan 2:39, Did the Empire of Greece rule the planet? or Israel?

According to this verse, Greece ruled the planet, or "all the earth", under your understanding.

Understand that "all the earth", means the earth of Israel, not the planet.

Now understand that when it says that the Roman beast rules the world, it is not the planet, but the world of Israel.

After the Roman Empire falls, the image Empire RCC rules the people of Israel.

The toes/horns end when Israel is restored to Jerusalem.

------
I have spent enough time warning you. You have heard the truth and you resist it and instead believe in false teachings. Therefore, you will be held responsible for believing and teaching these things.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
#73
I have spent enough time warning you. You have heard the truth and you resist it and instead believe in false teachings. Therefore, you will be held responsible for believing and teaching these things.
It may be that you will be responsible for not believing it, for fighting against the truth, once it has been shown to you.

But time and the Holy Spirit, and God's mercy, have a way of doing things to accomplish God's purpose.

The work is in the hearts and in the minds of men.

-----------------

Let the prophets speak, let the people judge.

-------------

I can only show what has been given to me.

It is the Holy Spirit that gives understanding to the minds and hearts of men.

---------

So, you are going to lay down your sword (Bible) and give up? Surrender? You might as well. You were losing badly anyway.

Who was the iron of the statue in Daniel 2, .... 500 years ago?, .......right now? The iron does not end and then start up again, it maintains it's strength all the way to the end of the toes.

It can only mean that Caesar is the Antichrist and that the beast is Rome. It means that the Vatican is the image empire and the Bishop of Rome is the revealed Antichrist after the fall of the Roman Empire in 476 ad..

It means that the Antichrist is not waiting to be revealed, it means that he has been here all this time, since Caesar and the empire.

----------------------
 

DudleyDorite

Active member
Aug 7, 2018
329
110
28
#74
It may be that you will be responsible for not believing it, for fighting against the truth, once it has been shown to you.

But time and the Holy Spirit, and God's mercy, have a way of doing things to accomplish God's purpose.

The work is in the hearts and in the minds of men.

-----------------

Let the prophets speak, let the people judge.

-------------

I can only show what has been given to me.

It is the Holy Spirit that gives understanding to the minds and hearts of men.

---------

So, you are going to lay down your sword (Bible) and give up? Surrender? You might as well. You were losing badly anyway.

Who was the iron of the statue in Daniel 2, .... 500 years ago?, .......right now? The iron does not end and then start up again, it maintains it's strength all the way to the end of the toes.

It can only mean that Caesar is the Antichrist and that the beast is Rome. It means that the Vatican is the image empire and the Bishop of Rome is the revealed Antichrist after the fall of the Roman Empire in 476 ad..

It means that the Antichrist is not waiting to be revealed, it means that he has been here all this time, since Caesar and the empire.

----------------------
If you believe the iron is Rome, then you need to answer a few questions.

mixed

Mixed or mingled is the Aramaic word ARAB. In every resource I have it indicates an Arab or Arabia.

1. How does the word Arab denote a Roman or Italian?

"And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay."

The iron and clay are said to be divided, not cleaved to one another, partly strong, and partly broken, and mingled with the seed of men. (intermarried.)

2. How does the iron represent Rome or the EU when they are united have strong alliances, and not intermarried per say.

The Arab's are divided, the Arab world has weak alliances, they are a broken and not cleaved to one another, and are among the most intermarried people in the world?

The legs of iron are said to "subdueth all things." Subdueth means to crush or to shatter. The Arab's and Muslim's have crushed every religion in the region.

3. How has Rome or the EU crushed and shattered all things?

MIXED, the word that describes the 'iron and clay' describes the Arab's and the Muslim's.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
#76
If you believe the iron is Rome, then you need to answer a few questions.
DD,

The statue of Daniel 2 represents the 4 Empires that rule over the people of Israel from the captivity in Babylon until Israel is restored to control of Jerusalem. The gold is Babylon Dan. 2:38.

The last of the 4 Empires is the iron of the statue. The iron of the statue begins after the Empire of brass Greece, when Rome invaded Israel in 63 bc. The iron nation that rules over the people of Israel continues until the end of the toes. The metals are symbolic of nations and kings.

The miry clay that becomes mingled with the iron beginning in the feet are non-Roman nations that also share in ruling over the people of Israel until they are restored to Jerusalem.


mixed

Mixed or mingled is the Aramaic word ARAB. In every resource I have it indicates an Arab or Arabia.

1. How does the word Arab denote a Roman or Italian?
The iron would be the Roman Empire. The clay is non-Roman nations. The iron refers to the city of Rome, not the surrounding areas of what is now modern Italy.

Some of the nations in the clay would be Arabs, but the waters mixed with the clay possibly show the unstable populations of those nations. That is the non-Roman nations mix and are changing.

History shows that the time period of the feet, where the power of Rome over Israel begins to diminish, is when the Roman Empire begins to fall apart and pieces of the Empire begin to be invaded by Eastern tribes. The city of Rome and the Empire ended in 476 ad. When the Roman Empire fell in 476 ad, then the period of the 10 toes began.



"And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay."


The iron and clay are said to be divided, not cleaved to one another, partly strong, and partly broken, and mingled with the seed of men. (intermarried.)
The people of the statue mix, but the Roman Empire (RCC) remains as a kingdom.

-----------

2. How does the iron represent Rome or the EU when they are united have strong alliances, and not intermarried per say.
Germans leaders marry French leaders, but their nations remain separate. Not like the dark ages and middle ages where when kings married, they may unite alliances and kingdoms.


The Arab's are divided, the Arab world has weak alliances, they are a broken and not cleaved to one another, and are among the most intermarried people in the world?
They would be part of the clay and waters that would include other gentile non-Roman nations.

--

The legs of iron are said to "subdueth all things." Subdueth means to crush or to shatter. The Arab's and Muslim's have crushed every religion in the region.
The Roman Empire did crush and subdue all of Israel. They destroyed Jerusalem in 70 ad and scattered Israel into the gentile nations. The persecution of Caesar and the Empire (RCC) continues until Israel is restored to Jerusalem, then the iron and clay end when the toes end.

---

3. How has Rome or the EU crushed and shattered all things?

MIXED, the word that describes the 'iron and clay' describes the Arab's and the Muslim's.
The statue shows the gentile nations that rule over the people of Israel until they are restored to control of Jerusalem, then the toes of the statue end.

The empire nations that are symbolized are powers of "western civilizations", not the planet. They are centered on the natural branches and their return to Jerusalem.

----------------------
 

DudleyDorite

Active member
Aug 7, 2018
329
110
28
#77
abcdef,

How do you explain this...

God says He would stir up the Medes against Babylon. Not the Persians!

Daniel 5 quotes Darius the Mead as the one who "took" Babylon at the age of 62. Not Cyrus like the secularist would have you believe.

Daniel, Isaiah's, and Jeremiah's prophecies ascribe the conquest and destruction of Babylon to the Medes.

Daniel 5:31
"And Darius the Median took the kingdom, (Babylon) being about threescore and two years old."

Isaiah 13:17
"Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, ie. (Babylon)

The Medes are silver, the Persian's are bronze, the Greeks are iron.

Jeremiah 51:11 Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance
of his temple.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
#78
abcdef,

How do you explain this...

God says He would stir up the Medes against Babylon. Not the Persians!

Daniel 5 quotes Darius the Mead as the one who "took" Babylon at the age of 62. Not Cyrus like the secularist would have you believe.

Daniel, Isaiah's, and Jeremiah's prophecies ascribe the conquest and destruction of Babylon to the Medes.

Daniel 5:31
"And Darius the Median took the kingdom, (Babylon) being about threescore and two years old."

Isaiah 13:17
"Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, ie. (Babylon)

The Medes are silver, the Persian's are bronze, the Greeks are iron.

Jeremiah 51:11 Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance
of his temple.
Daniel 8:20-22, 20, Identifies the kingdom of Media as a 2 part kingdom of Media and Persia.

------------------
 

DudleyDorite

Active member
Aug 7, 2018
329
110
28
#79
Daniel 8:20-22, 20, Identifies the kingdom of Media as a 2 part kingdom of Media and Persia.

------------------
Daniel 8 explains the inferior kingdom and the sequence in which the two kingdoms combined into one.

I was by the river of Ulai. Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had [two] horns: and the [two] horns [were] high; but one [was] higher than the other, and the higher came up last. I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither [was there any] that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
Daniel 8:19-21

And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end [shall be]. The ram which thou sawest having [two] horns [are] the kings of Media and Persia.

The two horns BECAME the Ram but the smaller one (Medes) "came up first." The higher horn that came up last is the Persian Empire. The one that was not as high (smaller/inferior) that came up first is the Medes. The two eventually merged into the ram or the Persian Empire. The Medes are the kingdom inferior to Babylon in Daniel 2.

Both secularist and many Protestant's believe Cyrus the Persian conquered Babylon, but scriptures say that Darius the Mede invaded and conquered Babylon. The reason for this is that there's very little secular history on Darius. If they were to agree with the bible instead of secular history where Daniel 5:31 says that Darius the Mede took Babylon at age 62. That would debunk the revived Roman empire theory which is what they've been teaching for centuries.

The Medes were superior warriors compared to the Persian's. The Persians were better engineers and nation builders than the Medes. Cyrus married Darius' sister Mandane. (some say his cousin, Darius' and Mandane's father was Ahasuerus) The Mede's and Persian's were allies and they also had their own languages. Darius is the one who went into battle against Babylon as the bible records. It was the custom of that day for the elder to be first in battle. Darius had some help from Persian troops but mostly in the form of logistics.

The Median kingdom occupied Babylon for about 6 years before the Persian's under Cyrus had what I would call a family coup, where about 100 people died to take power over the kingdom. The two eventually became the 'Ram' or the Persian empire who is the third kingdom of brass that was conquered by Greece. Then Darius took charge of the northern province of the kingdom while Cyrus reigned over the southern part.

Darius came first...
Daniel 6:28 So this Daniel prospered in the reign of Darius, and in the reign of Cyrus the Persian.
Daniel 11:1 Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him.
Daniel 6:1 It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;
Ezra 4:24 Then ceased the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem. So it ceased unto the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia.
Ezra 6:15 And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
#80
Daniel 8 explains the inferior kingdom and the sequence in which the two kingdoms combined into one.

I was by the river of Ulai. Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had [two] horns: and the [two] horns [were] high; but one [was] higher than the other, and the higher came up last. I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither [was there any] that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
Daniel 8:19-21

And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end [shall be]. The ram which thou sawest having [two] horns [are] the kings of Media and Persia.

The two horns BECAME the Ram but the smaller one (Medes) "came up first." The higher horn that came up last is the Persian Empire. The one that was not as high (smaller/inferior) that came up first is the Medes. The two eventually merged into the ram or the Persian Empire. The Medes are the kingdom inferior to Babylon in Daniel 2.

Both secularist and many Protestant's believe Cyrus the Persian conquered Babylon, but scriptures say that Darius the Mede invaded and conquered Babylon. The reason for this is that there's very little secular history on Darius. If they were to agree with the bible instead of secular history where Daniel 5:31 says that Darius the Mede took Babylon at age 62. That would debunk the revived Roman empire theory which is what they've been teaching for centuries.

The Medes were superior warriors compared to the Persian's. The Persians were better engineers and nation builders than the Medes. Cyrus married Darius' sister Mandane. (some say his cousin, Darius' and Mandane's father was Ahasuerus) The Mede's and Persian's were allies and they also had their own languages. Darius is the one who went into battle against Babylon as the bible records. It was the custom of that day for the elder to be first in battle. Darius had some help from Persian troops but mostly in the form of logistics.

The Median kingdom occupied Babylon for about 6 years before the Persian's under Cyrus had what I would call a family coup, where about 100 people died to take power over the kingdom. The two eventually became the 'Ram' or the Persian empire who is the third kingdom of brass that was conquered by Greece. Then Darius took charge of the northern province of the kingdom while Cyrus reigned over the southern part.

Darius came first...
Daniel 6:28 So this Daniel prospered in the reign of Darius, and in the reign of Cyrus the Persian.
Daniel 11:1 Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him.
Daniel 6:1 It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;
Ezra 4:24 Then ceased the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem. So it ceased unto the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia.
Ezra 6:15 And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king.
Dan. 8:20-22,

The ram is clearly one kingdom symbolized as one ram with 2 horns. (Other examples of the horns being part of one nation would be Dan. 7 and Rev chs 12, 13, 17.)

The horns are 2 different powers in one kingdom. (2 arms in the statue of Daniel 2.)

The Greek goat defeats the Ram.

------

So, who do you think the iron nation is?

-----